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Declan Edge - Let Them Play

Jeff Vader
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Smithy wrote:

Around in circles.

I could care less if Declan doesn't win, but he seems to be doing something right with his current philosophy with YOUTH players which appears to be similar to Barca... , either that or something in the Waikato water!


Similar to Barca? Let's not get carried away.

Can we take this convo to the coaching chat forum? I like it, but it doesn't belong here. Someone start (or rejuvinate) a Declan thread...

Continuing here as requested.

Why is it that Declan and Barcelona gets mentioned together? I used to play basketball but I was no Earl Monroe..

WFA I don't really think we are talking about results. I think in terms on football development, some of his players are well a head of other Kiwi kids on the curve in some areas. I then see Tyler Boyd and I see a kid who has a base raw talent which I think Declan is good at getting them to, but then, they are so woefully deficient in other areas. He hasn't got a left foot and when you know that, it's extremely easy to shut him down if you position yourself right. Yes he has Ryan (and I believe he probably had the talent anyway) Tyler, Jesse and Harry. In terms of ratios, what is the success rate vs the amount of kids he has had? I know that is a bullshit stat because youth schemes in the UK spin kids out all over the place. I just think this whole 'Barca/700 passes' is bullshit. Again, the ideas are right, but don't spin them up as the next million dollar footballers when all they have ever done is the equivalent of knocking 700 kicks against a brick wall. Let's see these kids create an attack with their passes, read the defense and change things, anticipate the next option, move and alter with what the defense give them. Combine that with what base he has created, and then we can start talking about the footballers he is producing and how successful his schemes are. It's not results orientated, it's playing football whereby the football is effective and efficient, or if you like 'quality' cause when they leave Declan, they have to produce more than just being a part of 700 passes and saying to the gaffer 'but I made mine' won't cut it in a team where they ARE results orientated.

Grumpy old bastard alert

james dean
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I think you have to be very careful in confusing a base skill that's expected of all top level professional footballers (being able to pass the ball) with saying that because you can pass the ball you will be a top professional and therefore that's the only skill you need to work on.  Barcelona's style of play revolves around passing, but that's only part of it.

Normo's coming home

Jeff Vader
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Exactly JD and that's what Declan does. "We make xyz passes".... And? It's horseshit because it means nothing.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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I agree with some of what you say don't get me wrong, as they get to higher level they need to produce more result, the fundamental skills are controlling and passing if you can't do them you haven't got any hope, I don't see how it can be negative for youth players to be put in a position where they on average control and pass the ball 70 times in a game, how can it be a bad thing if players are required to make that many decisions who, where, how to pass the ball (not simply passing against the wall). It during this time that they develop an understanding of anticipation and moving and altering the defense. 

I think your idea that UK youth schemes spin kids out all over the place is laughable the percentage that make to first team football is small, have a look at the PFA website and see how many 17,18,19 youth scheme players currently don't have a club, they end up coming out here and trying to play national league because they used to play for Everton youth team, just need to look at the NZ boys that have been and returned.   

gee I sound like I love the guy when i actually think he is a complete bellend!

N-Bomb
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As long as Declan never coaches a team, he's fine. 

His perfect role is almost what he is doing at Ole, creating very good technical players, and then once they reach 17/18/19 letting them go and be coached by someone who can teach them the final product and integrate them into a team. Once you get Edge in charge of a team, things go badly quickly, he doesn't care about goals and picks all of his own kids, no attacking go-forward at all.

Jeff Vader
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I agree with some of what you say don't get me wrong, as they get to higher level they need to produce more result, the fundamental skills are controlling and passing if you can't do them you haven't got any hope, I don't see how it can be negative for youth players to be put in a position where they on average control and pass the ball 70 times in a game, how can it be a bad thing if players are required to make that many decisions who, where, how to pass the ball (not simply passing against the wall). It during this time that they develop an understanding of anticipation and moving and altering the defense. 

I think your idea that UK youth schemes spin kids out all over the place is laughable the percentage that make to first team football is small, have a look at the PFA website and see how many 17,18,19 youth scheme players currently don't have a club, they end up coming out here and trying to play national league because they used to play for Everton youth team, just need to look at the NZ boys that have been and returned.   

gee I sound like I love the guy when i actually think he is a complete bellend!

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying just what you did, that a lot of kids go into these youth schemes and get spun out without a club. Very few make it and they go for a blanket coverage effect that if we take in 100 kids, 2-3 should be exceptional.

Again, I think the idea one of 70 passes each and time on the ball is fine. It's saying because they make those 70 (or 700 as a team) that they must be good footballers. It's completely not related.

Grumpy old bastard alert

hepatitis
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You could say they are technically good footballers...

Jeff Vader
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Essentially yes. Individually skilled on the ball so yes, technical footballers

Grumpy old bastard alert

Opp196
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0

Jerzy Merino
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hepatitis wrote:

You could say they are technically good footballers...

Two seasons ago Waikato opened their ASB season with a home match v ACFC. At halftime the score was 1-1 and Declan's kids had bossed the park. Senior ACFC board members could hardly believe what they were seeing. "These kids are better than us!" was one printable comment I recall. But the kids couldn't put the ball in the net - apart from an Adam Thomas pen.

Final score: Waikato 1 ACFC 5.

Take from that what you will.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

N-Bomb
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You are describing every single Melville game under his reign.

martinb
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Jerzy Merino wrote:
hepatitis wrote:

You could say they are technically good footballers...

Two seasons ago Waikato opened their ASB season with a home match v ACFC. At halftime the score was 1-1 and Declan's kids had bossed the park. Senior ACFC board members could hardly believe what they were seeing. "These kids are better than us!" was one printable comment I recall. But the kids couldn't put the ball in the net - apart from an Adam Thomas pen.

Final score: Waikato 1 ACFC 5.

Take from that what you will.


So an Edge team + Lewandowski and we're sorted...

pacy

Jerzy Merino
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martinb wrote:
Jerzy Merino wrote:
hepatitis wrote:

You could say they are technically good footballers...

Two seasons ago Waikato opened their ASB season with a home match v ACFC. At halftime the score was 1-1 and Declan's kids had bossed the park. Senior ACFC board members could hardly believe what they were seeing. "These kids are better than us!" was one printable comment I recall. But the kids couldn't put the ball in the net - apart from an Adam Thomas pen.

Final score: Waikato 1 ACFC 5.

Take from that what you will.


So an Edge team + Lewandowski and we're sorted...

Yep. Sounds kinda silly but yep, that's what I reckon. But he won't get the chance.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

martinb
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what are the chances of getting Lewandowski to play for Melville do you think?

pacy

Jerzy Merino
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martinb wrote:

what are the chances of getting Lewandowski to play for Melville do you think?

Ha ha. However, it was a shame IMO that the Waikato team under Edge never had a genuine striker or two feeding off all that excellent teamwork - a Krishna, say, or someone like Alan Pearce. They might have been ASB contenders. But Declan probably wasn't interested in anyone coming in from outside 'his club'.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

Global Game
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For post screen shot 2019 03 17 at 11.36.45 am


Edited by Global Game October 29, 2013 10:42

Kotahitanga. We are one.

Global Game
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N-Bomb wrote:

You are describing every single Melville game under his reign.


So, can he learn from the experience and develop to become a better coach?

Kotahitanga. We are one.

Jeff Vader
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Interesting question Stretford.

I would say listening to all the media sound bites and all the print journo's, the answer would be a definite no based on those alone.

Grumpy old bastard alert

Jazzman
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Minor issue but the quote about 800 passes wasn't from Declan - It was Nate Winkel who said it ( I think).

Having said that , I watch Declan coach 2-3 times a week ( Jr is at Ole) and have done for 6 months. There is a real emphasis  as mentioned above on one touch control , one touch passing etc , but also on pressing high " You lose it , get it back" and this permeates through the coaching structure at Ole ; all coaches I've seen with Jr are on the same methodology.An Ole way? Maybe.

Would I want to have a beer with Declan?Unlikely. But  he can coach  .Am I pleased with what Jr is learning- absolutely ; more importantly , so is Jr.Earlier this year , a group of players from Jrs age group at Ole had a game against a club side that had played togerther for 3 years and at the time was second in the JPL age group in Welly. It was the first time the Ole kids had played a game as a team. They tore the club based side apart.

I have heard him speak at length about his coaching philosophy- he is completely committed to it amd firmly believes NZF , in particular  , is wrong. Is his the only way- clearly not but he has found an approach that does seem to turn out technically able players- up to them as to how far they go.

Because I'm old , I may be wrong here but when Postecoglou was in charge of Brisbane , his teams seemed to want to walk the ball in to the goal . Very similar to the criticism levelled here against Declan ( lots of passes , no end product).This criticism may be justified  , I suspect . 

Jeff Vader
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See the bit you have mentioned about the 1 touch control and passing, that's extremely beneficial and kudos to him for making it about that. Its the best base you can give to a footballer but it is only a base.

 

Towards the end of the Ange's Roarscapade, teams figured out to camp on the 18 for exactly that reason. See Phoenix v Roar in Dunedin.

 

I guess he is relying on the coaches at the next level to tell his players when to make the right pass, the runs off the ball, passing lanes etc?

Grumpy old bastard alert

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