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Smithy wrote:
N-Bomb wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Global Game wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Global Game wrote:

I note that Declan's protege Ryan thomas has just signed a 4 year deal with Dutch Eredivise club PEK Zwolle. I think the kid is just turning 19. Wow. Declan's methods justified?

 


Epic oversimplification.


Apparently he has been the major coaching influence, so just asking the question in a neutral manner, not claiming cause and effect.
 


Fair enough. Didn't sound that way.


In my opinion, talent is talent. Declan's done a great job, no doubt, but you've got to start with talent. You can't create talent. 


When talent meets decent coaching and then gets opportunity. #win.


Pretty much this. Where Declan has it right is the hours he commits to these kids - he believes in time spent on the training pitch to make his players technically good, and most of them are. The problem for him, as a coach, is when he tries to put all of his players on the field at the same time together, and then it all goes to pieces as nobody can shoot and they all just spend time passing the ball around the backline. He's best served developing the young players and then seeing them move on to a senior side where they can learn the more physical aspects and style of the higher leagues, and fit into a better, more direct system

 

Which is pretty much the job he has, so that's awesome.


Indeed, he's found the perfect job for his talents (In my eyes, not his).
Phoenix Academy
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about 11 years

How do you figure that?

Cock
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Phoenix Academy
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I am thanks Jeff, haven't read anything that suggests what he does well as a coach is perfect for his role working with youth players. Was wanting for a little more explanation from n-bomb.

Stage Punch
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Think N-Bomb was endorsing what had been said previously. If you read back you'll get the gist.

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N-Bomb wrote:

Where Declan has it right is the hours he commits to these kids - he believes in time spent on the training pitch to make his players technically good, and most of them are. The problem for him, as a coach, is when he tries to put all of his players on the field at the same time together, and then it all goes to pieces as nobody can shoot and they all just spend time passing the ball around the backline. He's best served developing the young players and then seeing them move on to a senior side where they can learn the more physical aspects and style of the higher leagues, and fit into a better, more direct system


This is mainly the gist of my earlier arguments. 

Phoenix Academy
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Yes but unfortunately there isn't much in your earlier arguments that suggest Declan Edge is in the perfect job for his strengths as a coach. As I believe he is still working with youth players? The points in your arguments suggest he would be best suited working with the older kids in the junior bracket.

 

Cock
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No the point of his argument is that he is in the right place right now - teach skill work to young footballers. He is not in charge of a team where they tried to play football to a mantra that while on the surface sounds good, essentially is faulty as he implements it

Phoenix Academy
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Yea except he isn't in the right place right now, as the "strengths" of what he is good at, doesn't fit with the age bracket he is working with. I'm not saying its not right to be working on youth players technique or skill but it is not the main basis of what we should be doing with our youth players on a regular basis. 

Marquee
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"Nineteen year-old Domenic Berardi became the first player in Serie-A's 85 yr-old history to score four goals against AC Milan, to give Sassuolo a 4-3 victory yesterday. Berardi, a lanky striker with a fiery temper, had not even played organised football until he was sixteen."

- Reuters (on Yahoo Sport)

Phoenix Academy
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Paolo wrote:

Fantastic!

So Paolo, what do you think about "had not even played organised football until he was sixteen"? [reason I placed the above in this thread]

Marquee
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Jerzy Merino wrote:

"Nineteen year-old Domenic Berardi became the first player in Serie-A's 85 yr-old history to score four goals against AC Milan, to give Sassuolo a 4-3 victory yesterday. Berardi, a lanky striker with a fiery temper, had not even played organised football until he was sixteen."

- Reuters (on Yahoo Sport)



yeah, never let the truth get in the way of a good story - according to wiki he was picked up at 13 by the academy of Calabrian club Costenza Calcio
Phoenix Academy
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Jerzy Merino wrote:
Paolo wrote:

Fantastic!

So Paolo, what do you think about "had not even played organised football until he was sixteen"? [reason I placed the above in this thread]


Not really relevant to anything I have said Jerzy. Haven't said that anything is the only way. Just stating what is best practice used by best clubs and country's all over the world to give them the best chance at producing as many top level players as possible, not got anything to do with freak occurrences or special story's. 
Good story though.
Marquee
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Stage Punch
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Presume they're replacing Kyle Segebart.

WeeNix
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VERY late to this party but they now have 5 "full time" coach ( Kyle had "problems with his visa" ). Declan , James Prosser and 3 new coaches on board .

a.k.a AJ13
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How well do that go last season? I only remember Wests losing in the cup and making hilarious excuses.

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Interesting rant from Declan on fb NZ Football Coaches

https://www.facebook.com/groups/430105513757838/?fref=nf


"Here is a good one NZF and NTC claiming that Ryan Thomas came through their system......Can we say that Ryan Thomas never ever attended NTC on the theory of "lick the lollipop of mediocrity once and you will suck forever" When i find out who is claiming that they will need to explain as that is 100% lies.......is this misleading bullshit and needs to be corrected........"

and

"... in the case of Ryan, Tyler, Harry, Jesse and Mohamed Awad and others this is not the case. These players where build from the experiences they i gave them....all their football thoughts and the decisions they still make are formed under my direction. I understand that will piss many people off but that is the fact. I am claiming to be the single influence on these players and thats not nonsense their whole environment i designed constructed and controlled. I did not facilitate them i grow them......period. I am will do it again with other like minded players."



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The grammar isn't great, must have been in some rage when he wrote that. I can see it from his side of things, he needs to protect his image of producing players if he wants to keep his niche and get paid.

Cock
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True but then he looks like a crybaby. "No ones talking about me and what I did" Egomaniac

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Cock
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/soccer-football/news/article.cfm?c_id=86&objectid=11249099

 

I see Declan followed through and made sure the entire world knew that he is the one that should be getting the props.

Egomaniac. What's wrong with letting the kids shine through without stealing all their thunder? If he tried that a little bit more, people might actually go to him and go 'are you that Declan Edge guy renown for developing players? How do I sign my kid up?' He just comes across as a crackpot and largely why he gets dismissed.

Trialist
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about 16 years

I've gotta start by saying I don't know much about football even though I've been involved for a lot of years and I find Declan to be a "Zealot" and a little bit scary.

What I will say is, the kids that he trains are huge fans.  I have spoken to a lot of parents and they say their kids are obsessed with him and his approach.  They are learning a craft and are totally committed to it and to Declan.  (Despite the rants and the shouting).

I've been told - if he criticises you, then you probably deserve it.

In my experience training with Declan is preferred over basically any other program I've been involved in.

I was prepared not to like him at all, but I find I have huge respect for what he is trying to do and I admit I like watching the football that his kids play (win or lose).

I read a lot of criticism about NZ teams from U17 to the All Whites "hoofing the ball forward" and winning on physical strength and a bit of luck and this is exactly the type of football that Declan doesn't teach. 

Who knows what's the right approach - but good on him for his single mindedness, self belief and commitment. I'm a fan!


Cock
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I think its been well established that largely the scheme he runs and tries to implement is very well intentioned and produces results in the form of a developed player. The flip side is that its all run by a madman that seems to want to be the one in the lime light and while his teams play possession football, they never win because they lack directness/penetration and the ability to think for themselves.

Appiah without the pace
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"No one from NZF has visited Ole," says Edge. "It's strange. I know I could help NZF produce world class players ... but I couldn't even get an interview for the New Zealand under-17s job.


apparently he didn't apply for U17 coach so would be difficult to give him an interview.

Cock
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As much as I am not a huge fan of Declan, I would prefer him to Jose...

Life and death
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Declan is not a madman, he is a zealot and he gets results. I've spoken to parents/grandparents of some of his boys [while he was coaching Waikato] and they swear by him. Let's face it, his methods are not going to appeal to everyone, neither those of Wynton; but they produce success. There are successes that have come via different routes too but instead of rubbishing one over the other, let's just be happy there seems to be pathways available for kids to make it to the next level, they can choose what best suits them surely?

Trialist
0
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6
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Declan is not a madman, he is a zealot and he gets results. I've spoken to parents/grandparents of some of his boys [while he was coaching Waikato] and they swear by him. Let's face it, his methods are not going to appeal to everyone, neither those of Wynton; but they produce success. There are successes that have come via different routes too but instead of rubbishing one over the other, let's just be happy there seems to be pathways available for kids to make it to the next level, they can choose what best suits them surely?

+1
Life and death
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Don't +1 me...... "This" me please :)

Starting XI
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I've said this before, but Declan is great at producing a particular type of player, definitely one that can succeed at a higher level - obviously he needs buy in from the player - like Thomas, in the end it is the hours you put in which matters in connection with the coaching.

The difference is those people who want him coaching teams, where he can prioritise the success of his players and the implantation of their style over results on the field - I can tell you Melville and Waikato probably weren't too happy employing him only for him to consign the two sides to the bottom of the table and then take all his promising talent with him when he left.

So he's basically in a great position at the moment - a chance to develop the skills of kids without having to put the side together and put a result on the field. Seems that he has higher aspirations than that though.

Marquee
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N-Bomb wrote:

I've said this before, but Declan is great at producing a particular type of player, definitely one that can succeed at a higher level - obviously he needs buy in from the player - like Thomas, in the end it is the hours you put in which matters in connection with the coaching.

The difference is those people who want him coaching teams, where he can prioritise the success of his players and the implantation of their style over results on the field - I can tell you Melville and Waikato probably weren't too happy employing him only for him to consign the two sides to the bottom of the table and then take all his promising talent with him when he left.

So he's basically in a great position at the moment - a chance to develop the skills of kids without having to put the side together and put a result on the field. Seems that he has higher aspirations than that though.

Coaching Ajax.

Cock
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N-Bomb wrote:

I've said this before, but Declan is great at producing a particular type of player, definitely one that can succeed at a higher level - obviously he needs buy in from the player - like Thomas, in the end it is the hours you put in which matters in connection with the coaching.

The difference is those people who want him coaching teams, where he can prioritise the success of his players and the implantation of their style over results on the field - I can tell you Melville and Waikato probably weren't too happy employing him only for him to consign the two sides to the bottom of the table and then take all his promising talent with him when he left.

So he's basically in a great position at the moment - a chance to develop the skills of kids without having to put the side together and put a result on the field. Seems that he has higher aspirations than that though.

Which is kinda what I said and exactly why NZF wont touch him. They want results.
Marquee
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Jerzy Merino wrote:

"Nineteen year-old Domenic Berardi became the first player in Serie-A's 85 yr-old history to score four goals against AC Milan, to give Sassuolo a 4-3 victory yesterday. Berardi, a lanky striker with a fiery temper, had not even played organised football until he was sixteen."

- Reuters (on Yahoo Sport)

He's at it again. Hat-trick in win against Fiorentina.

Cock
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So is Declan still going to name drop Barcelona and Spanish style football in his quotes/interviews?

Marquee
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Jeff Vader wrote:

So is Declan still going to name drop Barcelona and Spanish style football in his quotes/interviews?

Picking Declan will be going Dutch from now on (with a little bit of Italian thrown in)

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