New Zealand Men's U-17s

And which one of the above players are you??

Probably the one who sent auto-pornography to Steve Cain an effort to entrap him.

ABSOLUTE JOKE!!!!

1. Edge has prevented his players from attending NZF trials etc as he thinks that only he should be coaching them and NZF cannot offer them anything!!!

2. These twice a day trainers cannot beat Waitakere City (winter league) reserves so are you really claiming they should be playing International football?

3. The one player who is half decent is Jesse Edge but I'm not even sure he is young enough for the U17s??

4. In some of the games Edge claims as victories for his 'academy' he plays over age players.. So playing MAGS as someone else has mentioned he may have had up to 3 or 4 Senior players. He has previously played Alex Barlow, David Sampson, Aaron Scott and other 18/19/20 year old players..
MrWaikato2011-04-20 21:44:13

The more i think about this the more i laugh however im sure theres more to this story than what Cain is telling us, theres no way hes sent just one pxt since 2009. Love for the women to come out and give us details. What a story.

Is it any wonder football will never flurish in NZ with people like MR Waikto around, Stuck in their little football world, full of half truths and actually no true understanding of the game.

It was their 1994 team.

I don't know any of the players you've mentioned, but what I will say is that there were a bunch of Wellington kids in the frame for this squad, and the one that Cain selected was a technically excellent winger (James Wypych).  He let go a bunch of others that were less technically capable but better athletes.

Pays to remember that we would all pick different players given the same group to pick from.

The man Utd academy anaolgy is nonsense, they lose to other top class academies.. not northern league reserve teams...

As for Edge understanding player development that is also nonsense. Do you think Man Utd's academy director would prevent his players playing for their country or would only allow himself to coach them etc..

Edge is well meaning but unfortunately a little mistaken in his beliefs around the 10,000 hours theory. This is research that says basically, that it takes 10,000 hours practice to master a skill, for the sake of this argument, to become a professional athlete.. The research goes on to say that a large % of these 10,000 hours come from unstructured play, the old fashioned kick abouts between players of diffeerent ages etc that many european, south american etc.. kids grow up playing. Edge is trying to ensure that his players have 10,000 hours under his structured tutorledge.

These players are technically proficient but have little or no understanding of the game and how, when, why etc...

For years now they have passed the ball in safe areas, where they have been allowed to pass it by opposition teams. Having 70% of the possession in your own half under no pressure then conceding goals on the break when you finally try to get into the oppositions half is not developing these players for a career in football.

I have seen both Edge's side play and the NZ U17s. I do say there are one or two players in Edge's side who could have made the U17s BUT HE STOPPED THEM FROM ATTENDING TRIALS!!!! One left Edge's group in order to make the side! I would also say that the NZ U17s have a number of technically very good players too, they are far from being a team of giants and athletes as has been suggested..

In a final thought, are Lionel Messi, Thierry Henry, Drogba, Ronaldo, Xavi etc etc not good athletes too? The modern game of football REQUIRES players to be athletes. Without athletic ability AND technical ability a player would find it almost impossible to make the grade in the modern game!!!

Having played with Declan years ago I am not surprised he has polarised opinion so much!!
MrWaikato2011-04-20 21:51:36

I agree. Is Declan as strange as his old man?

The man Utd academy anaolgy is nonsense, they lose to other top class academies.. not northern league reserve teams...

As for Edge understanding player development that is also nonsense. Do you think Man Utd's academy director would prevent his players playing for their country or would only allow himself to coach them etc..

Edge is well meaning but unfortunately a little mistaken in his beliefs around the 10,000 hours theory. This is research that says basically, that it takes 10,000 hours practice to master a skill, for the sake of this argument, to become a professional athlete.. The research goes on to say that a large % of these 10,000 hours come from unstructured play, the old fashioned kick abouts between players of diffeerent ages etc that many european, south american etc.. kids grow up playing. Edge is trying to ensure that his players have 10,000 hours under his structured tutorledge.

These players are technically proficient but have little or no understanding of the game and how, when, why etc...

For years now they have passed the ball in safe areas, where they have been allowed to pass it by opposition teams. Having 70% of the possession in your own half under no pressure then conceding goals on the break when you finally try to get into the oppositions half is not developing these players for a career in football.

I have seen both Edge's side play and the NZ U17s. I do say there are one or two players in Edge's side who could have made the U17s BUT HE STOPPED THEM FROM ATTENDING TRIALS!!!! One left Edge's group in order to make the side! I would also say that the NZ U17s have a number of technically very good players too, they are far from being a team of giants and athletes as has been suggested..

In a final thought, are Lionel Messi, Thierry Henry, Drogba, Ronaldo, Xavi etc etc not good athletes too? The modern game of football REQUIRES players to be athletes. Without athletic ability AND technical ability a player would find it almost impossible to make the grade in the modern game!!!

Having played with Declan years ago I am not surprised he has polarised opinion so much!!


It is commonly accepted that to become an expert in anything you must committ 10,000 hours of deliberate practise towards that particular discpline  ie... music, maths, sport  ext....

 

deliberate practise = engaging in an activity that is specifically designed to improve your performance.

In regards to your suggestion that unstructerd play or as the acdemics call it (Deliberate play) is the key to acheiving the 10,00 hours is not quite correct.

 

The european perspective on this is to actually  focus their training around deliberate practise at very early age. Granted the 10,000 hours can not be completly filled will focused practise. Up unitli the age of say 12/13 kids are encourged to multi sport and play sport for fun, these hours are counted. Once kids hit 13 yrs there training will increase to at least 4 contacts per week. Still plenty of room for these kids to take part in deliberte play also unitil they go full time at 16.  Don't tell it is the deliberate play component is what is going to give them expetise in football!     he Ajax seems to work?

 

Within south American culture a huge amount of kids will engage in just playing street football (Deliberat play) . These are ofetn the kids that have not been picked up. In essence all that is happening is that the pro clubs have huge base of uncoached raw players to pick from if the boys they currently have are not developing. Don't be fooled to think Brazlians just play fun games of football and become experts, quite the opposite. I read an article in 442 about a Brazilan club they had 1000's of kids on it's books. Kids travelled from all round the country to get into the acdemy.They trained x2 a day 6 days a week, they worked hard to stay the club because they know there are 20 others just as good on the street that have not been as lucky.

 

If you are interested in actually understanding these concepts fully have a read of Bounce, The Talent Code, Outliners and  Talent Is Overrated

 

The young player from the age of 5-13yrs should be involved in a lot of  Deliberate play ie futsal, small sided games, school yard football ext... but after the age of 13yrs Deliberate practise must take over, that's not to say the coach can not still utilise deliberate play from time to time.

 

I look at players like Xavi, Fabregas, Inetsai, modric, scholes and ask myself if they were born into the NZ system would they have developed into top class football players, probably not. Why, because of exactly what is happening with the current crop of u17's , the players that are putting the hours in and willing to sacrifice everything to become a player are not being identified and looked after by NZ Football.  Cain has already took a team to a World Cup and failed to get the boys playing, why , becuase they had not put the hours in. Same will happen again, I was told they could not get the ball off the Aspire academy  (Similar standard to a good young european u17 )

 

Why not try something new, why not get behind what is actually going on in your own back yard and support these boys. Decaln has not got all the answers not by a long shot, his main weakness is that he thinks he has. What he has done is light the fire for some of these boys to chase there dreams. The boys I have mentioned need a new challenge, a different coach with fresh ideas and a platform to actually show their abilty.

 

Some of the boys did trial ,Steve was never going to pick them, us 1 favs were already a shoe in. The boy that left Decaln to join u17 was asked to leave by Decaln as were 2 other boys. The u17 was his only option because HBHS were not doing anything for him, hence why he has left. 

Don't let facts get in your way haha

The lad in question was forced to leave by Declan because he had the cheek to actually want to play for HBHS.. Which he did and I believe then played in a National Secondary Schools final where he was spotted by the U17s coaching staff, alongside two other U17 World Cup players (Keeper and left back, sorry names escape me.) 3 NZ Internationals seems quite a good return for a school side, alongside the numerous other players the school has produced (Bunce, Perry, Scott, Samson, Holloway, Mayne, Pijnenburg, Margetts, Barlow etc...)

As an ex pupil of the school I can only commend the work the school does with football and a number of very good coaches have been employed over the years.

HBHS is a fantastic footballing school - there only downside is not having enough pitches to cater for the over 20 teams it has (when i last taught there is was about 23)

I agree , HBHS are a great football school, a great sports school, 1st 11 had a raw deal though last year when the coach was away early season, Paul Nixon is doing a great job now though with a strong young team.

You forget to mention the awesome tactics Declan uses sometimes. One time I recall seeing one of his teams kick off with all 10 outfield players in a circle around the ball. So off they went and proceeded to cleverly pass the ball to each other inside their circle. Until, that is, an opposition player (I think it was a Fed 2 rep side they were playing) won the ball and simply ran down the field and scored. Creative coaching I guess, but stranger than fiction.

OK , dont remember that one, obviously hasnt tried that again, I must say that the way they were playing is exactly how he has always coached, they know how to keep the ball, not sure if they know how to stick it in the net though

Keeping the ball is overrated

The boy that left Declans mob was kicked out with 2 others because he played half a game for the HBHS 1sts against their 2nds, I dont think he misses Declan and did enjoy playing for his school, he is now at Sacred Heart in Auckland and loving it with Danny Hay in charge BTW, Steve Cain has said that his current, (ex current) squad were smaller but technically better than the last lot that did so well in nigeria WC. They did well in Qatar even though they only won 1 game, playing very strong academy teams all older.

Maybe hes learning?

Congratulations to U17s goalie Scott Basalaj of Lower Hutt City AFC, who has just won the Hutt City Sports Awards "Young Sportsman of the Year" at the Ceremony tonight at the Town Hall.

I sent TVNZ an email asking if they would be broadcasting the tournament in Mexico. Here was their reply.

Doesn't SKY Sport usually cover these tournaments?

Possibly a new broadcast deal post SA2010?

Heard a result today that might back my argument about the NZ u17 squad

I'm getting quite tired of you deckard.

Your principle argument, as far as I can follow it, is that NZF should pick the boys who are training the most.

This is of course ludicrous.

You also keep comparing the U17s to Manchester United's U18 Academy team.  Again ridiculous because the purpose of the two is completely different.  Manchester United does not care what the results of its U18 Academy team are like.  It does not matter if they get beaten regularly.

New Zealand does care what the results of its U17s are like.  It does matter if they win or not.

You also contradict yourself big time when you cite the fact that the U17s lost as a reason for changing the players.  If results don't matter then they don't matter, you can't have it both ways.

Mostly though you make no sense and seem to be particularly annoyed that a few players you know aren't in the team.  Makes me wonder if you're related to them.

Steve Cain has quite a good track record as a national team coach, and Aaron Mac is also a tremendous coach.  I back their opinion over yours. 

That is all.

It was a training game with most of Edges players older,yes jesse and maybe Ryan will go to Mexico, U 17s beat Declans team 7 nil earlier on, u17s have gone backwards since cain left so Mc Farlane has some work to do

I think Edges team are playing well and as a team where the u17s are more individual as they might feel they need to prove themselves to the new coach for re selection, very hard on any team to lose a coach 8 weeks from a world cup

Average age of Declans team was about 18/19. I think only maybe 4 boys would have been eligible for the U17s. Admittedly Jesse Edge is one of those who is definitley worth a look.

Rey Mysterio

Seeing as they won on the night are you saying he might be "the winning Edge that the U17s need?"

I'll get my coat.

quick reminder, the draw will be happening our time the 18th @ 5am.

all the other teams that have qualified. 

Group A (Morelia/Monterrey)
1. Mexico
2. Korea DPR
3. Congo
4. Netherlands

Group B (Monterrey/Morelia)
1. Japan
2. Jamaica
3. France
4. Argentina

Group C (Pachuca/Torreon)
1. Uruguay
2. Canada
3. Rwanda
4. England

Group D (Torreon/Pachuca)
1. USA
2. Czech Republic
3. Uzbekistan
4. New Zealand

Group E (Queretaro/Guadalajara)
1. Burkina Faso
2. Panama
3. Germany
4. Ecuador

Group F (Guadalajara/ Queretaro)
1. Australia
2. C�te d'Ivoire
3. Brazil
4. Denmark

Group D Match Date - Time Venue Results 7 19/06 15:00 Torreon Uzbekistan - New Zealand 8 19/06 18:00 Torreon USA - Czech Republic 19 22/06 15:00 Torreon USA - Uzbekistan 20 22/06 18:00 Torreon Czech Republic - New Zealand 31 25/06 18:00 Pachuca USA - New Zealand 32 25/06 18:00 Torreon Czech Republic - Uzbekistan Oceanic62011-05-18 08:30:57

Kind of glad we aren't in group A, B and F.

Was looking for a weak group.
There is not one.

Did you not see Group D!?

I did say group not team.