A few years ago, wasn't there a Southern Trust 'sponsorship' of a league?
I think they sponsored the last club based national league.
New Zealand Football Championship salaries
Hang on Hard News, I have a bone to pick with you. You've banned Alireggae for 24 hours for saying "blah, blah" and yet Jeff Vader is allowed to throw a really nasty corruption slur at ACFC (read dodgy Balkan types) by posting "unless you happen to receive mysterious brown paper envelopes in dark alleys in Sandringham" - and nothing happens.
I know this was probably received with chortles of delight by the usual ACFC-haters but this is a really unjustified and slanderous accusation of corruption on a bunch of good football people who run ACFC. This is typical of the constant inference that somehow ACFC is corrupt by certain individuals on this forum but statements like that are far more deserving of a ban than what Ali said in jest.
If what JV implied about ACFC was directed at Welnix you would be livid HN and I'm sure the ban stick would come out. Double standards seem to apply. I bet JV won't have the courage to voice this sneer in person down at Kiwitea Street? If the club was Italian run it would all be about the mafia wouldn't it.
I expect you to be fair Hard News.
Then could you please explain how in fact ACFC do make payments to their players?
And bearing in mind the title of the thread can we have some more knowledgable then me on the subject provide an estimation on aucklands average wages?
And bearing in mind the title of the thread can we have some more knowledgable then me on the subject provide an estimation on aucklands average wages?
I think that you are a little out of order with a request like this, regardless of the name of the thread. I would have thought that what a player earns, or doesn't earn, is a matter between the player and his Club and is nothing to do with anyone else. Surely there would be some confidentiality as part of a contract. I don't think that it is anyone else's business.
Not out of order at all.A couple of things. As you have rightly pointed out it is the title of the thread and auckland is our top team. Smithy has already put his balls on the line and faced possible wrath by disclosing team Wellingtons wages. Call me a tragic but I am interested in such matters. The other day I googled the average salary in the Dutch league to see what Ryan may be earning. Not out of envy, not out of spite, but out of interest (he is playing a professional sport - which means you get paid you know). Many here would also be interested in transfer fees it is the nature of the sport/profession. Now a semi professional team also interests me. Asking what our top team players earn is not a crime. Good on them if it is high. Now since you are so protective perhaps you know?
And bearing in mind the title of the thread can we have some more knowledgable then me on the subject provide an estimation on aucklands average wages?
I think that you are a little out of order with a request like this, regardless of the name of the thread. I would have thought that what a player earns, or doesn't earn, is a matter between the player and his Club and is nothing to do with anyone else. Surely there would be some confidentiality as part of a contract. I don't think that it is anyone else's business.
I think most people will agree entirely with the sentiment of your post, however given that we are talking about what is supposed to be an amateur competition, if and how much a player gets paid is arguably everybody's business, not least of all NZF.
Hang on Hard News, I have a bone to pick with you. You've banned Alireggae for 24 hours for saying "blah, blah" and yet Jeff Vader is allowed to throw a really nasty corruption slur at ACFC (read dodgy Balkan types) by posting "unless you happen to receive mysterious brown paper envelopes in dark alleys in Sandringham" - and nothing happens.
I know this was probably received with chortles of delight by the usual ACFC-haters but this is a really unjustified and slanderous accusation of corruption on a bunch of good football people who run ACFC. This is typical of the constant inference that somehow ACFC is corrupt by certain individuals on this forum but statements like that are far more deserving of a ban than what Ali said in jest.
If what JV implied about ACFC was directed at Welnix you would be livid HN and I'm sure the ban stick would come out. Double standards seem to apply. I bet JV won't have the courage to voice this sneer in person down at Kiwitea Street? If the club was Italian run it would all be about the mafia wouldn't it.
I expect you to be fair Hard News.
If you want to get me banned for that, I have no problem with it at all....on the balance that you to get banned for slander on Andy Martin.
How say you? Or is this another one you ignore because you can't defend some guys that are deliberately being wind up merchants and then target others.
As Smithy said, bigger issues.... Moving along.
To be fair to news, if consistency was enforced Vader would be permanently banned. We all know he's a mad man so tolerate him and find him funny
I think the phrase that kids are using today is "achievement: unlocked" but never entirely sure what it relates to.
To be fair to news, if consistency was enforced Vader would be permanently banned. We all know he's a mad man so tolerate him and find him funny
I agree but there should be some sort of standards about what people are allowed to say or imply. Give respect where it's due. There's funny and there's just plain nasty. It just seems any mud is allowed to be thrown at ACFC.
Deep breaths folks.
The standard of debate in this thread has been bloody good. There have been some solutions proposed, and debated.
Can we just stay away from the pot shots. Yes ACFC is a well run ship, we know. Yes they do get almost all of their money from pokies. We know that too. It doesn't actually matter that much. The other bigger issues discussed in the above couple of pages (more funding, NZF's role, league structure, etc etc) are heaps more interesting. Can we keep chipping away at those?
And Newsy, if we've been wielding the banstick unfairly let's fix that up.
Actually Smithy, while appreciating your sentiments, I wish to point out a mistake. ACFC doesn't get almost all its monies from pokes, it gets about half. The rest comes from gates, sponsorship and winning the O League every season. There's a big difference.
As you were.
Hmmm, not sure if trolling or deliberately missed my point about focusing on the more important issues :)
Carry on.
Happy to focus on the more important issues, just wanted to correct an inaccuracy that has implications.
Dismissed.
I see in the paper this morning that Andy Martin has said that they are going to do something to make the ASB stronger. i think the context was somethign along the lines of 'after the Phoenix reserves have been admitted' - I am paraphrasing mind.
I would like BM to read that (which is what NP put above) Its pretty much what I have been saying.. Let the guy get into the seat first.
''Once we nail the Phoenix issue then the focus can be on getting the national league stronger."
Yes , you can just see the effort and thought thats gone in to that ......
I see in the paper this morning that Andy Martin has said that they are going to do something to make the ASB stronger. i think the context was somethign along the lines of 'after the Phoenix reserves have been admitted' - I am paraphrasing mind.
Andy Martin said "once we nail the Phoenix issue (getting their reserve team in ASBP) then the focus can be on getting the national league stronger." This is the first positive thing anyone at NZF has said about the ASBP for a long time so I find that encouraging. However I'd like to have seen more positive action to bolster the ASBP before now. Still it's a start even if it's more about the Nix reserves than the national league itself. I'll wait and see.
I know this is off point (as this was about salaries before we got into our usual tedious debate), but here's a different proposal I have been thinking about.
Part of the problem with the league is lack of competition.
Part of the problem is the tedious nature of playing the same teams all the time.
Part of the problem is that because there is no sanction for poor performance teams can basically decide to have a year off, which Otago and Waikato have both done from time to time, and just start again next season.
Part of the problem is there is almost no interest in the league for the weaker teams who aren't going to do anything at all and can't get relegated.
Part of the problem is because the league is funded by gaming trusts, people in charge of teams aren't accountable to fans, and gaming trusts pay against costs not results like real sponsors would.
My solution, focus on as soon as possible bringing in an 8 team div 2. You could just about do it tomorrow - Phoenix 2 or a 2nd Wellington team, Palmy, Nelson, A.N.Other Auckland team (or 2, Sth and Nth Shore), Wairarapa as well. Tauranga could probably manage a team. Sure they might be a bit less organised than the existing well run franchises but that's life. You just have to deal with that.
Start enforcing the original franchise agreement in div 1 but have a bit more leniency in div 2. I'd also have an official/unofficial wage cap in div 2.
Suddenly you have a competition which looks a lot more interesting. Promotion and relegation. Pressure on teams to perform. More media attention. I don't think it would necessarily overnight increase playing standards, but it would be a lot more fun and a lot more interesting.
With 16 teams you could reduce the entry fee a little. You'd have to push hard on costs in div 2. Introduce proper regulation of overseas players to keep costs down. Also I'd introduce a requirement to have 2 U20s in starting squads.
This is only an outline, but to me it makes more sense than a 10 or 12 team div 1 with no promo or relegation.
Personally I don't think a second division is viable because of high travel costs although I like the notion of relegation/promotion.
Gaming trust funding will inevitably be uneven based on population etc.
Instead of a second division how about the bottom team each season has to go into a promotion/relegation play-off with a new franchise?If none comes forward in a particular season then the bottom team stays. This would at least stop ASBP sides taking a season off.
The ASBP becomes an 8 franchise competition (bring in South Auckland and Nelson).
NZF stop taking any funding out of franchise entry fees or O league prizemoney. Instead they put up $100,000 each season so that overall $250,000 odd is poured back to subsidize costs for the sides below a certain income threshold. This means NZF is effectively investing $100,000 (a modest amount) into its main domestic development league and not taking anything out.
The Phoenix reserve team play friendlies against ASBP sides to gain game time. The ASBP side keeps the gate.
Well costs can be managed. Otago do it for about $250k, but that includes $65k competition entry. I agree with you that the entry fee seems out of place in the current environment and that would be the first thing NZF should look to reduce. I'm pretty sure also that gaming trusts outright will not fund entry fees so that means before you start each year you need to find that money. I think that would be a better than prize money because let's face it, the O-League is basically a shot at signficant prize money.
The issue with bottom team promo/relegation is there's not enough certainty for teams to keep turning up year on year. My model is UK country cricket. You know every year that you're going to be in the competition, but there is an incentive to play in the top division because you will attract more players and the focus is generally on the top division - but you have interest through promo and relegation.
Maybe it's ambitious - but I think that the current league structure will in the medium term only trend one way. There are too many problems that remain unsolved right now