Flags and Banners

Flags and Banners

Today the club contacted me and said they had finally managed to get the Stadium to agree to letting flags and banners into the stadium for Phoenix games on a trial basis.

Why flags and banners? Personally I think flags and banners, as long as they are displayed reasonably, can significantly add to the atmosphere and spectacle of a football match. I also think they can add to and strengthen the identy of a fan group, and help make a home ground more intimidating for visiting teams. Some of my favourite pictures of the Yellwo Fever are the Thanks Terry banner (see my avatar) and the pics showing the Yellow Army banners in the air...

It has taken an awful lot of negotiation with the stadium to get them to agree to this trial, so, if we want flags and banners to continue to be allowed in, either to:

( a ) the Yellow Fever Zone; or

( b ) another designated 'Flags and Banners' Aisle somewhere elsewhere in the stadium;

we need to show the stadium that:

1. Flags and Banners at a football game will not be offensive - they cannot contain offensive language.

2. Flag poles and Banner poles won't be a saftey risk.

3. Flags and Banners will not be waved or displayed in such a way that it causes complaints from other patrons about not being able to see the game etc.

I think points 1 and 2 are simple enough, as long as we are responsible.

To ensure that point 3 works I propose the following voluntary code of flag waving and banner displaying:

Flags and Banners will only be waved/displayed during breaks in play so that other people do not miss any of the action during the game. This means acceptable times to wave flags and display banners include:

• before kick off;
• during injury or substitution breaks;
• at half time;
• after full time;
• during goal celebrations;
• when the ball is out of play before corners or freekicks;
• No national flags (except for NZ and Australia)

...as long as they are down again before play resumes.

Personally I would prefer to see flags and banners in the Fever zone. But, if there is significant anti-flag and banner sentiment, then rather than end up not having them at all because the dissatisfied people complain about them, as mentioned above, I think we could instead designate another Aisle elsewhere in the stadium as the flag and banners area.

What is a flag, and what is a banner?

Just so that we are all talking about the same thing, when I say flags and banners I mean:

Flags are on a single pole. See the yellow circle below.

Banners have two poles, one on each end, so one person can hold the banner up above their head, one pole in each hand. See the banners in the orange rectangle below.

I am not talking about banners with no poles like the big banner that goes over everyone's head before kick off, nor am I talking about banners like the "We love Daniel" one that gets hung over the front fence.



Size limits for flags and banners?

Personally I don't think we need to go to the sort of large banner in the blue rectangle on the right hand side of the picture above. I think I have had the largest ever football flag waved in the crowd at a football game in New Zealand. At the Kingz I have a 4 metre by 4 metre Kingz flag, and, in hindsight, I think that was too big.

Perhaps the voluntary flags and banners code could have a size stipulation included in it?

I think for banners one person should be able to hold the banner up over their head with one pole in each hand... so that limits the width of a banner to how far your arms can spread apart.

For flags I think 3 metres by 3 metres is big enough. (that is as a maximum size, flags don't HAVE to be that big.)

Interested in any other people's views.

Here are some of the sorts of football flag and banner displays that I have in mind. I think it would be great to see this sort of thing develop for the Phoenix.

AC Milan fans:





Melbourne Tard flags and banners (I hate the tards, but they do have some good flags and banners - I particularly liked their banners for the first Melbourne Derby with the hearts in the red circle with the crossed out line through the hearts):





Brisbane Roar flags and banners:





Sydney flags and banners:







bwtcf2012-02-02 15:39:58

Any flag that blocks my view gets broken. Fair warning

That's the sort of thing I want to avoid.

To try and be slightly more constructive than just threats to break things...

Do you think the proposed voluntary flags and banners code is acceptable?
bwtcf2012-02-02 00:34:02

Fair enough.

I think things like while the ball is out of play is too short and will cause some angst. Goal celebrations seems the ideal time to wave them during the game. However you have to be very careful to respect those around you,as in if they complain then stop or move and try your luck in a different part of the zone.

I agree with this. Stoppages can be surprisingly short sometimes, even the fox sports team get caught out.

I love the idea, if it works well then it will be great patrick4782012-02-02 00:45:28

Absolutely.

I think ball out of play moments vary in their length. Sometimes for a throw or a quick corner the game is going again before you could even pick a flag or banner up.

Sometimes there's a longer delay, for various reasons. If you had a banner that said "Tards on a spit" and we were 4 - 0 over the tards and the ball went out and there was a long delay before the corner was taken down in front of the fever zone, then I'd get the banner up and give them beans...

...but have it down again before the corner was taken.

I think it calls for some sensible decision making by the banner holder as to when a delay is going to be long enough or not long enough.

I absolutely agree that you have to be considerate of those around you. We all want to enjoy the football, and any flags and banners should add to the Yellow Fever presence, not divide it by causing factions.
bwtcf2012-02-02 00:50:22

Sounds like you're being sensible about it it only takes one or two idiots to get it wrong though.

I'll be one of the first to say if it's pissing me off

I often watch MV for example and thank god we don't do it to the extent that they do. It'd be a shame because I would move from the FZ. so this does make me nervous,but I do trust you! It's definitely worth a trial at least. Tegal2012-02-02 00:51:30

Cool. Thanks. I think we can create a flag and banner culture that DOES NOT block people's view of the game...

bwtcf2012-02-02 00:55:40

When I was back for a game at the end of last year, Hard News found a seat to be a safety risk - what hope have got with large bits of wood?

i really want to make a plain yellow and black chequered flag would this be allowed?

bwtcf2012-02-02 08:59:48

Mmm...........There's quite a bit to ponder here. Well done for putting such a balanced proposal together, and seeing both sides. I also like the visual spectacle of flags (banners get a bit boring generally), and I think they can add to the atmosphere.
They also make the crowd look bigger.
I guess my biggest worry would be the flag carriers- a bit like the General who said that battle plans fall to bits once the first shot is fired.
We could put in place all the rules and regs we like, but have we factored in beered-up Fever Fans who might just "forget" what they are allowed to do? I foresee mighty problems if this went even a little wrong.
Maybe confine flags to Aisles 19/20 and 22/23? Kids love flags too generally, and this is where most kids would be. It would also make the FZ look a lot bigger (good for TV).

Like the idea and anything that increases the look of atmosphere on tv can only be good for dragging along the casual suppporter. My first thought though when looking at your pictures of the Tards and Bling was how a lot of them have their scarves raised. Since most of us all have a scarf, it would be just as easy to propose raising the scarves before kick off as the team are coming on. I know some people already do this but it was choreographed en masse, it would look awesome.

I like the sound of this, were you going to make one yourself? I'd be keen for one.

Fixed

I think of your suggested 'when can we wave flag / banners', i like the following:

* before kick off;
* during injury or substitution breaks;
* at half time;
* after full time;
* during goal celebrations;

I think corners, throwins, free kciks etc are not long enough, and would just cause angst.

However I would like to add one:

* when the Phoenix hold aloft the golden toilet seat after the home grand final.

:) Good stuff.

Perhaps goal celebrations could be extanded to cover "All celebrations, be they for goals, winning matches, Tards players being sent off, winning competitions, etc."

I agree, corners and free kicks are the most contentious items in the list. Some free kicks see a break fo a couple of minutes as the ref talks to the player(s) weho committed the foul, and/or books them, then tries to get the wall positioned etc. etc. Sometimes it seems to me during all that lalava a banner could be displayed. But I agree a lot of the time not. I like your list though Goldienz... the free kicks and corners item can be removed I reckon (note: throw ins were never included in the list, just in the discussion)

This.
I was at the Falkirk vs Celtic game at the weekend (semi-final of the Scottish Communities League Cup), and it looked amazing when all the Celtic fans held their scarves up after goals, and towards the end of the game.

Dont know whether anyone has checked the AFF rules, but last year I brought a Brazilian visitor to the game. He let his flag drape over  the rail and after the game Daniel gave him his boots. NICE TOUCH. uiron2012-02-02 15:03:42

I don't think anyone is considering brining in national flags, more like yellow and black flags for the Phoenix.

Disagree. Once the bringing of flags is allowed, there will be more Brazilian flags appearing. And if Sanchez builds up his fan base we may get a bit of red and yellow, not to mention Barbados blue or even the odd Maltese Cross. uiron2012-02-02 15:18:58

bwtcf2012-02-02 15:35:33

There are a few officious, rule orientated types in every crowd. These are the people who should have the job of waving the flags.

Re. the issue of national flags... bwtcf2012-02-02 15:38:02

FFA rules for not displaying national flags is to avoid repeats of the issues with NSL I believe, and noted recently when some Brisbane fans were ejected from a game for showing Bahrain flags.

I like the idea of flags too, but there were people at the last home game who complained before kick-off that YF flag was blocking their view, so the people holding it didn't end up waving it at all.

If we're having to deal with complete negativity towards flags and banners in the YF zone already, then I think it might be a hard task getting more in.

There were a few grumblings about the YF banner too. I've got to say it was probably poorly timed, it got a bit boring and annoying standing there staring at yellow. Tegal2012-02-02 15:47:50

Grumbling about people with flags has been going on for years.

bwtcf2012-02-02 16:04:56

bwtcf2012-02-02 16:09:08

On the other hand,if they tell you every week, maybe you should move.

Better to have a water resistant material like a jacket cloth than a Sheet/t-shirt material which will soak water and get heavy.

Reminds me.  If anyone has a shot of the banner with Fever on it from the weekend can you post it here for me?

So my big Gold and Black flag from rugby days might make a showing at a nix game after all :D

I think some kind of strong polyester is best, tough and water proof. I've got a friend who knows how to sew so might ask her what it'd take to make some.

I've quickly mocked up some simple flag ideas:

I disagree about banners. Sometimes a witty and well-timed banner can be the highlight of a match.

I heartily endorse the yellow and black chequered design.

I agree. Hardly surpising that though, since bwtcf stands for Brandon With The Chequered Flag.

If someone makes a vertically striped flag, it should (I think) have 11 stripes, like the Phoenix logo has 11 stripes... Black on the centreline then alternating yellow and black outwards from the centreline.

Looking at the Phoenix logo closely now I guess it could be argued there are 12th and 13th black stripes, but I always thought they were the continuation of the black wings and that the stripes finished with the last yellow ones. 11 stripes, one for each player on the field...

Something like this, 3 metres x 3 metres would be cool.



bwtcf2012-02-02 18:09:58