Central Coast Mariners - Better than the Knights

Doloras
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Blew.2 wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:

I like and feel for Mariners fans but really, the club are in complete dis-a-ray

Need to relocate to Auckland

/fixed

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
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Doloras
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More seriously - I'm seeing complaints from Salties fans about their ownership asset-stripping the club and running down development programmes, etc. Are the Salties going to go the way of GCU, even with that guaranteed-for-forever licence?

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
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Ryan
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RR wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:

I like and feel for Mariners fans but really, the club are in complete dis-a-ray

Sacking Mulvey is putting a bandage on a broken leg. The problems the club has had with recruitment and retention have existed for a number of seasons now, regardless of who is the manager. You could hire a world class one but he couldn't do anything with the quality of players they sign and when they do find a diamond in the rough, they lose them straight away because they don't lock them into a longer term deal.

Thought they had a good squad at the start of the season.

But you're right, coaching is the least of their problems.

theprof
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Doloras wrote:

More seriously - I'm seeing complaints from Salties fans about their ownership asset-stripping the club and running down development programmes, etc. Are the Salties going to go the way of GCU, even with that guaranteed-for-forever licence?

might be an opportunity for us to grab hold of it when they fold.

Queenslander 3x a year.

Outpost
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Maybe I'm being naive but would it have hurt to give Mulvey the jump option first rather than humiliatingly sacking him at 1am? Granted it's always the coach that has to pay the price for poor onfield performances at the end of the day but he's still been hamstrung by colossal club inefficiency. 

Add to that the onfield/offfield shenanigans of the likes of O'Neill, Simon, Hoole and Pain, all experienced players who owed their club and their coach a much higher degree of professionalism than they've recently shown and you have a situation where Mulvey could not have got that club out of its nosedive in a million years.

Interesting to hear the board that sacked him emphasizing how they want to 'increase revenues' going forward, just the kind of financially inflected weasel words that show they have lost sight of what the true basis of a football club should be.

Royz
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Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

RR
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Royz wrote:

Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

Aussie teams got 20 year extensions, so they are safe until Charlesworth decides he doesn't want the club anymore and sells it to someone that might try to live the club.
Colvinator
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Royz wrote:

Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

I hope so, it absolutely should be.

I hate it when people question our A-League licence for things like poor crowds, and I think it's disgusting that a lot of Phoenix fans seem to question other clubs remaining in the league. We should not support kicking clubs out for 'metrics' whether it's us or anyone else. A lot of fans from other clubs showed solidarity with us yet people on here seem willing to throw any other club under the bus to try save us.

Lonegunmen
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History shows all over the world that if a club is not performing attendances will drop. It is swings and roundabouts. The sooner some owners understand this, the better. One day the Victory and even Sydney will experience rough results and their numbers will drop. It just happens. 

Perhaps if the Kingz or Knights put in decent results and achieved something, they might still exist with a decent fan base. The potential is always there in Auckland with at least 100k of registered players of various ages. All they needed was 7-10k show up. Get some decent players in and away they would have gone.

CCM will bounce back one day and their fans deserve it to happen.

172 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games Attendee   

2ndBest
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If CCM lose all their remaining games they have a worst PPG than the knights did in their first season. 

Doloras
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There are a lot of people talking about how there's no incentive for good onfield performance in the "closed shop" A-League, but how about there being no incentive for competent off-field management? I honestly think WelNix don't get credit for being frugal; some people would prefer a model where someone with more money than sense is prepared to personally subsidise losses so a club can hire superstars etc. Do you want Clive Palmer? Because that's how you get Clive Palmer.

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RR
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2ndBest wrote:

If CCM lose all their remaining games they have a worst PPG than the knights did in their first season. 

First thing I had a look at when I realized it was Rnd 21, they only beat the Knights by 1 point for a 21 game season.
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Doloras wrote:

There are a lot of people talking about how there's no incentive for good onfield performance in the "closed shop" A-League, but how about there being no incentive for competent off-field management? I honestly think WelNix don't get credit for being frugal; some people would prefer a model where someone with more money than sense is prepared to personally subsidise losses so a club can hire superstars etc. Do you want Clive Palmer? Because that's how you get Clive Palmer.

I agree to a degree, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there some kind of minimum a club has to spend? I'm thinking about minimum number of signed players but are there any other lower limits? I know spending more money doesn't necessarily mean better people but perhaps some lower limits might prevent some owners spending bugger all on the club and pocketing profits/asset stripping/just being too frugal like the Charlesworths, Palmers etc of this world. Its more than just players on the pitch that are necessary to make a club successful and by extension the league successful.

I'm not necessarily against a closed shop and for pro-rel to maintain a high standard competition, there are several leagues in other codes and around the world that survive very well without it.

Blew.2
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Doloras wrote:

There are a lot of people talking about how there's no incentive for good onfield performance in the "closed shop" A-League, but how about there being no incentive for competent off-field management? I honestly think WelNix don't get credit for being frugal; some people would prefer a model where someone with more money than sense is prepared to personally subsidise losses so a club can hire superstars etc. Do you want Clive Palmer? Because that's how you get Clive Palmer.

I agree to a degree, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there some kind of minimum a club has to spend? I'm thinking about minimum number of signed players but are there any other lower limits? I know spending more money doesn't necessarily mean better people but perhaps some lower limits might prevent some owners spending bugger all on the club and pocketing profits/asset stripping/just being too frugal like the Charlesworths, Palmers etc of this world. Its more than just players on the pitch that are necessary to make a club successful and by extension the league successful.

I'm not necessarily against a closed shop and for pro-rel to maintain a high standard competition, there are several leagues in other codes and around the world that survive very well without it.

Minimum Squad size and number of youth players. the spend is dictated by the minimum wage set by PFA/FFA.

Charlseworth has spend heaps on Fixed Assets (Brck n Mortar) and word is minimum on player wages 

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Ryan
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They have to spend 90% of the cap on their playing squad, which is what CCM did before (cap-minimum) but this year they had a marquee and quite an expensive front line so would have been above the cap.

Blew.2
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Don’t demonise the owner - He is  the one keeping the team here

"Central Coast Mariners CEO Shaun Mielekamp has warned supporters against demonising under-fire owner Mike Charlesworth, saying he is the only thing keeping the club in the region."

Sounds like the attacks on Rob Morrison/Welnix on here

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Mainland FC
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Blew.2 wrote:

Don’t demonise the owner - He is  the one keeping the team here

"Central Coast Mariners CEO Shaun Mielekamp has warned supporters against demonising under-fire owner Mike Charlesworth, saying he is the only thing keeping the club in the region."

Sounds like the attacks on Rob Morrison/Welnix on here

Charlesworth gets a lot of bad press, much more than Morrison ever got, and not just this season.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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Colvinator wrote:

Royz wrote:

Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

I hope so, it absolutely should be.

I hate it when people question our A-League licence for things like poor crowds, and I think it's disgusting that a lot of Phoenix fans seem to question other clubs remaining in the league. We should not support kicking clubs out for 'metrics' whether it's us or anyone else. A lot of fans from other clubs showed solidarity with us yet people on here seem willing to throw any other club under the bus to try save us.

I think you'd find very, very few Nix fans who seriously think the Mariners should be thrown under the bus. Comments on YF highlighting other clubs' substandard metrics are in general a frustrated reaction to what is seen as a massively prejudiced policy against the Nix.

If you asked most Nix fans if they think CCM should have their licence revoked because of poor results and poor metrics I am sure they would say no, of course not, but why is FFA singling us out when other clubs have been doing just as badly, if not worse?

Colvinator
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Outpost wrote:

Colvinator wrote:

Royz wrote:

Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

I hope so, it absolutely should be.

I hate it when people question our A-League licence for things like poor crowds, and I think it's disgusting that a lot of Phoenix fans seem to question other clubs remaining in the league. We should not support kicking clubs out for 'metrics' whether it's us or anyone else. A lot of fans from other clubs showed solidarity with us yet people on here seem willing to throw any other club under the bus to try save us.

I think you'd find very, very few Nix fans who seriously think the Mariners should be thrown under the bus. Comments on YF highlighting other clubs' substandard metrics are in general a frustrated reaction to what is seen as a massively prejudiced policy against the Nix.

If you asked most Nix fans if they think CCM should have their licence revoked because of poor results and poor metrics I am sure they would say no, of course not, but why is FFA singling us out when other clubs have been doing just as badly, if not worse?

Yes, pretty much agree. Though I have seen some comments that are at least verging on an outright attack on whether some other clubs should be in the league at all. No club should get kicked out because of 'metrics' in the way that has been threatened against us.

Situation frustrating for us, hopefully does get sorted soon. Obviously being a New Zealand club we will always to some extent be viewed differently than other clubs, but the last few years have been bullshark.

Doloras
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But it's not comparable, because no other club can be kicked out because of metrics. CCM have a guaranteed licence for another 17 years. Ours will be pulled in one year unless the entire competition is reorganized (which signs say it will be, thankfully). 


So CCM are not in any danger unless the owner pulls the plug, and some disgruntled Nix fans won't make that happen.

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