A-league Expansion - Derbies

I understand that and it is frustrating that Sky are being so measley towards it. Perhaps not just Sky's responsibility either. I acknowledge we need more fans showing up and bossting the gates, hence I would like an even more concerted effort to get people along. I hope to encourage at least 4 others from my work whom have an interest in football, to get off their chuffs and come to a few games!!

The day the FFA wants another team in Auckland is the day the Nix win their Comp.

When that happens we will be drawing 30k crowds to the caketin, have great TV numbers and meeting metrics

Above all the FFA will want to dilute our strength and the way to do that is to give us another team in Auckland.

Come on you nix!!

Make it happen, so Auckland rises again!!

Not quite but getting over 10,000 to home games consistantly, not being long way last in memership numbers and a decent TV deal would go a long way.

I'd say they go in that order too

Again the FFA owes NZ football nothing. It's up to the NZF and/or the people behind any future bid to get an Auckland team in the A league, to show that having a team from the city of cars would be a commercial benefit to the league.

Most Aussie football fans are just not interested in watching the Nix. I live in Brisbane. People I speak to here say Phoenix are like CCM or New castle, a team you know is in the league but rarely think about. Lack of star players to watch etc etc.  These people all support a NZ team in the league - and to the credit of the Australian football community when the Nix were threatened last year, they generally rallied around keeping a team in Wellington - they just don't have much interest in them.

Of course if an A League title went to Wellington that may change. But I think they would have to win a few titles before your average Aussie soccer fan, questioned having a NZ team in the league, ie started to 'hate' them

So it's up to the Nix to work on increasing the money they generate esp Sky TV rights.

Gallop is generally considered an 'ahole' over here (going back to his NRL CEO days and stripping Melbourne Storm of their titles) - but again the onus is on Nix and same with any mooted new Auckland team - to show FFA the moolah. Hopefully they can.

As a side note some of these same Brisbane football fans also thought would have been great to see AWs in the Asian Cup when hosted here in Aussie. Just saying

The stats don't support you there Coochiee, for a number of people the nix are their second team, and there are half a million kiwis in Australia (you being one of them) some of which support the nix, of course that's all hearsay.

The facts are that the nix rate about the same as CCM and the Jets despite not having a domestic audience so people are watching them despite the fact that they aren't their primary team, we're also are not anywhere near the lowest ranked game for any team that we play and in fact IIRC we were the second highest attended home game for the Victory of the year when we went on a big run. The above seem to show that there is a reasonable amount of mind share. 

The FFA don't owe NZ anything, but they did make a commitment to Oceania on leaving to have a professional team in the competition for ten years. Which has of course expired. 

Ultimately it needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship, the FFA are talking expansion and Auckland is by far the biggest untapped urban market, Auckland CIty has also made it their mission to be in the A-League within the next few years, and they are a pretty well run club so I'm sure they can put together a credible bid. The FFA are also talking promotion and relegation and there is no way they can get enough clubs together to have two pro tiers. 

What people here (and in Australia) don't realise is that Australia has a small population with a very large land mass, it's not a big country at all. I lived in Moscow for a bit which is only a few million people shy of the entire population of Australia. Despite having a tiny population they have a shark load of professional teams (as do we). Any city with more than a couple of hundred thousand people will have multiple professional sports teams, if you compare that to the US then a city like Austin with a population of 3.5 million only has minor league and college sports teams and nothing which is fully professional.

Australia and NZ (and probably the UK) have to be the most crowded sports markets in the world. They just have no room to grow to the size that they need to be domestically. 

Another way to look at it is this, I count at least 18 professional teams in Sydney (9 league teams, 2 AFL teams, 3 cricket teams, 2 football teams, 1 basketball team, 1 baseball team - and there are likely more), at a population of 4.3 million people that works out at one team per 238,000.

By comparison Auckland has 5 professional teams (4 Rugby (although I think some Counties and North Harbour are players are semi pro), 1 cricket, 1 basketball) with a population of 1.4 million works out at 280,000 people per team. But most importantly there isn't the same level of variety of teams to compete.

Of course they don't owe us anything, the relationship has to be mutually beneficial. But if Auckland City with their track record put together a bid they'd be mad not to consider it.

Not to mention, of course, that precious, precious, derby.

That's a very written piece there Ryan!  Hats off to yah. Your knowledge of the metrics, stats etc is far greater than mine. I didn't even know the FFA had made a commitment to Oceania on leaving to join the AFC, that a NZ professional team must be in the A League for ten years. Good to know.

Your only comment I'd take umbrage with is the crowd at the Victory v Nix game, season Burns and Co were on fire for Wellington.  I think that game coincided with Australia Day weekend from memory (I could be wrong?), and it's traditional for your average Aussie to go to the nearest sporting event over that weekend, and celebrate with a dozen schooners. So if I have it right the crowd would have been  'artificially' boosted a bit.

Still it would have been a near top of the table clash at the time, Nix were playing quality football and of course the ever dry Ernie, was returning to tangle with his ex-captain the surly Muscat. Having Ernie as a coach, will always add a bit of interest and colour to Phoenix from an Australian perspective. Definitely if the Phoenix can return to the level they were playing at, for a lot of that season they will be followed more over here.

If not they will remain at the level of CCM & Jets re commercial pulling power.

Like most NZ football fans (incl ex-pats) I'd love to see Phoenix succeed/win A League, and also love to see a 2nd NZ team. I just get annoyed when people criticise FFA, when neither of those look like happening. As rule I think NZ football gets not a bad deal from Australia. Your average Aussie football fan, only wants NZ to do well (esp now their World Cup qualifying paths diverge). I watched the Bahrain game in a Melbourne pub back in 2009, and post match it was a succession of handshakes and backslaps from the locals. They were just happy for us, that we were joining the Socceroos in South Africa. Some Aussie commentators like Michael Cockerill are big supporters of NZ football.

On a non-related note had a brief chat to John Aloisi (Roar coach & ex Socceroo) at my local Brisbane cinema last Saturday. I think he was bemused by a Nix fan in Brisvegas. Really nice bloke, more than happy to chat. 

His tips Kosta to go well, and re AWs playing 5th placed South American team (he did a few times himself - famously slotting the match winning penalty in pen shoot out with Uruguay in 2005) - "that will be very very tough"!!  No bold startling revelation I know

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/photo-gallery/socceroos-v-uruguay-where-are-they-now-106gklha26ozj132e28hc5vt9t/john-aloisi--the-enduring-image-of-aloisi-s-perfectly-placed-penalty-before-running-off-to-celebrate-with-his-jersey-swinging-above-his-head-will-never-be-forgotten--after-an-ill-fated-coaching-stint-at-heart--is-back-in-the-hot-seat-at-brisbane-roar-in-the-a-league-doing-an-excellent-job-12

I'm impressed by some of the arguments for a second team on here but I still think crowds is the stickler. I think they'd be really pushing to get 7k crowds unless the side was a top 4 team and I don't think they'd get near 20k crowds for a local derby, at least not after the first 1 or 2

I think Auckland might at long last be ripe for another go. The Two main teams up there have done well and certainly the idea of several local derby" games has a lot of merit and rivalry. My fingers are crossed as I would love to see this happen.

On the daily football podcast the new boss of the A-League said that they constantly get unsolicited requests for expansion from an entity in Auckland amongst others.

If it's done well, like if ACFC is behind it, then it will be a success.

Auckland can't be a success unless they get a suitable stadium. Christchurch has a better chance right now.

What's wrong with Mt Smart? Also better transport and more population around Albany now days

Personally I like the idea of a redevelopment of Eden Park no 2 ground. Bigger derby type games on No 1 

Every Derby in the A League is well supported, why wouldn't a NZ one be equally as popular.

What does unsolicited requests mean? I know joining the A League is part of ACFC long term plan

Drunk fans

That's what many would have said in Oz - before they got them. 

It means that someone is talking to the FFA about a second A-League team without the A-League asking.

750km is hardly a derby though.

It is by our standards, beats 1500km's

"Sources suggest a second New Zealand team will not be considered for immediate expansion but remains an option for the latter stages."

It could be off the cards for now lads. How A-League expansion will work and why promotion and relegation can be forgotten.

While the article is not dripping with unbridled enthusiasm for a second NZ team I see it overall as good news.  If  ACFC has a good business model and proven track record then they can be seen as a prospective candidate in absence of an even number of new Australian entrants.

At the very least if they are talking about expansion and even maybe another NZ team then you would think that we aren't too at risk of losing our licence all of a sudden

Edit: unless of course they decide that we didn't meet the metrics and they give our licence to an Auckland team instead. Which is actually probably pretty plausible

Well the extensions are automatic so our fate is in our own hands.

But when Melbourne City spend $9 million on a team, have some of the biggest stars in the league, are on a winning run, playing exciting football, and have the bulk of the marketing budget of the A-League behind one of their players, and still can only just break 8k our metrics don't look so bad.

CCM had a few over 8k last night. Lets hope we can do better than that today.

I doubt you would get 20k for a derby over here. The only derbies which get great crowds are the big city derbies.  The F3 derby, for example, doesn't get very big crowds at all and Newcastle is only about an hour away from Gosford. 

Mount Smart would probably be sufficient but it isn't ideal.

True. I'm hoping that I'm wrong TBH. I do think if you could get both sides firing in the top half of the comp the crowds would come.

True about the second bit but that's been the case all along. Our metrics have never actually been that bad  except maybe for our membership numbers. Everything else is roughly the same or better than the likes of CCM, Jets, Glory etc

The 13th/14th or 15th/16th team would be great. Still a few years away but if it is Auckland Citys goal to be an A league club I hope they are doing all they can to make it happen. How good would an inter city game be. Worth the flight from Australia for all of them I reckon.

But if both teams are always lower half of the table, they'll struggle. Success is needed and success is not finishing 6th in a 10 team comp.

With all due respect, extensions are not "automatic" for us. We still have to ask and they are likely to rubberstamp it but it is not automatic. Otherwise it would not be a 4+3+3 or whatever it is, it would be plain 10 years.  So while we have "certainty", FFA reserves the right to check us at each milestone.

FFA change the goalposts every year. One year they're trying to kick us out, the next year they're floating the idea of a second NZ club down the line.

Basically, they have no clue. It's like negotiating with someone on meth.

OK, I stand  corrected Ryan.  "Automatic" sounds good but naturally one remains  wary of any smell of underarm bowling in our direction.

The obvious one is for the FFA to say to ask the AFC to reject the approval.

But most likely we won't meet whatever metrics are required around average attendance, membership, or TV money. Simply because we already have a high attendance per population and are in a congested sports market (which has declining attendances across all codes), memberships aren't really a NZ thing compared to Australia, and the TV money relies on the popularity of the entire comp (which relies on the FFA to help market), as well as finding competition to Sky to drive the bid up, respectively.

Goff has said that he wants to sell off Eden Park and build a new waterfront stadium. 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/phil-goff-wants-ed...

If they made it smart - say 50k in 2 25k tiers - then it could be a game changer. A fit for purpose, central and accessible stadium would make an Auckland franchise more viable

60k seating 2 tier with a 25/35 split would be amazing lower tier small enough for most events but top tier bug enough for future large events with an eye to increased number over the next 20 years

Goff is in dreamland. I billion? The only chance of raising that is via major sponsorship. Fonterra Stadium? The Graham Hart Arena?

DotComDotCom?

The Deloitte Arena as John Key calls in some favours.

Don Key Arena