New Flag Ideas

Thats the very point I made. The Red Peak brigade are talking in their own vacuum so of course they are right. Thankfully Twitter and Facebook do not decide what happens.

Its been commented on here by a few that the Phoenix page on Facebook is the wild west of football stupidity more so than what you read on here (like this thread). My wife uses Facebook and from when I have had a nosey it would make even Sam Malcolmsons utterances look like wise football genius so take the virtues of social media for what they are.

It does matter cause Kiwis are apathetic to most things and leave it to the last minute. We are great at never getting tickets in advance for anything and leave it to the last minute (and then grizzle about the massive queues at Eden Park) because we have a 'she'll be right' attitude as someone else said. The fact of the matter is that the opportunity to engage from the get go was there and most people went 'yeah I'll get around to it' and now that they have pulled finger out of their ass, they are outraged? If they really cared, they would have gotten outraged earlier.

Where I do agree with you is that the engagement with the population and execution of this has not been great. It needed more time to dwell on the 40 options. I would have left them up for 3 months at a minimum. Like I say to people that want to get tattoos, draw them on your arm with a marker pen everyday for 3 months and then tell me after that if you still like it and still want it.

Every opinion poll that I have seen shows that the majority of New Zealanders would vote to keep the current flag, so how is that a small minority?

35k is a small amount, but it was gotten within a week. They require 350k to take it to referendum.

I'm not really fussed, I'll probably abstain from the first vote and vote to keep the current flag in the second, I just don't understand why you're so pissed off about people stating their opinion?

"...anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering." Careful. 

You are getting me wrong. I have no problem with people opinions. What I have an issue is, is with them being misrepresented. As you said above, "the nations opinion is that ........" based on what? When did the nation decide? Did I miss the vote?

Others are attacking this as a national/John Key thing and then go 'no I'm not' or I read the 'oh by removing the Union Jack, Key gets more power' or 'our Iwi will lose our treaty claims' and just utter fudgeing garbage. 

Its a vote on whether or not to replace a flag. Thats it. We have 1 vote each so use it but lay ogf the other horse shark in between that its about diverting attention from CHR housing or TPP or some other shyte that the nation agrees on with no proof of fact. Its just a flag and those people spouting the Key conspiracy and Red Peak brigade are making it more of a deal than it actually is.

The irony of this statement is that most people decry $26m on a democratic process as a waste of time but if there is something that suits their agenda...

Why is your opinion on the process and the reasons behind it correct and anyone who thinks the opposite so so wrong? At the very least, I'm open to the idea that this may all be legitimately just about a flag and national identity (and no, I don't buy into the flag change giving John Key and National super powers) but if it looks like a rat, runs like a rat and squeaks like a rat... Are you not open the idea, however ridiculous you think it may be, that this is all smoke and mirrors?

Nope. Its a vote on a flag. Its nothing more and nothing less. 

Whats your proof that a vote on the flag has another motive behind it?

All the polls that I have seen are overwealmingly in favour of keeping the current flag, how is that misrepresenting anything? That is the only information that we have to go on.

Circular argument but where's your proof that our current government, known to back track and break promises (as with quite a few governments - left and right) doesn't have another agenda or reason for this very distracting process?

I don't. Thats why I treat it as 1 vote for 1 flag and not get caught in other 'conspiracies'

So it goes back to did we need a flag change to begin with OR is this the right time to be doing it?

As with the FPP/MMP referendum, why not do it as part of the next election process?

Good question. I guess the vote will bear out whether or not there is the appetite for change.

I agree that with the next election is a better time however we are doing it now.

Red Peak?

NO!! The Red Peak flag is not a logo!!! The other ones are...

Mother fudgeer!!!  They stole our flag in advance.

i reckon a picture of dr bruce banner and the hulk would be the best  flag change!

I kinda agree with Gareth on this one

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id...

Probably because it is in two distinct parts.

Fixed.

Why does the flag have to be a rectangle? Can;t we lay some flagmaker's bane on the world and look at a Swiss, or even better Nepalese approach to this? 

Hexagonal maybe?

Obviously we're not going to agree, therefore a panel of independent forumites with no political, business, or social connections as unbiased representatives for the people should get together and propose a new short-list that can be voted against the current short list.Aa flag from the winning short list that should be voted on, and then that winning flag will be voted against the current flag.

Simultaneously the second short list should be voted on, with the top flag of the second short-list going against the second flag of the first short list for second place. 

A medal ceremony will take place after we vote for a new national anthem.

I propose this design as the first flag in the second shortlist:

Can we have a series of 27 voting rounds between ten contenders with the top 6 going into further rounds (let's call it "Preliminary finals") - but the top two selections having a vote and the winner facing off against the winner of the remaining five after a series of knock out votes)?

Actually the new flag should be a patchwork so that repairs to it are not obvious, with the current designs being prodomonately one colour none are suitable.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/65798933/...

this is by far the most economic and pragmatic appraoch, it could be a patchwork of all 40 shortlisted flags so that no one feels left out. Every flag designer gets a participation award.

Blank flag sold with that four-ink bic combo pen, so everyone can create their own flag.

Survivor: New Zealand Flag

Voted of off Stewart Island, series of challenges (fluttering in Wellington wind, raising the apathy of Auckland crouds and being worn as a cape while doing a terrible rendition of the Haka are just some of the challenges). 

Justin Marshall to host. 

Would be surprised if Julie Christie hadn't tried to push this idea. Keep an eye out for it in the coming months on TV3 primetime.

Did you see which board she was on? Hilariously bad choice of committee member. 

And if you believe some of the rumors about her involvement in, and reasoning around John Campbell's axing, then she would seem to be a John Key/National puppet/plant. Hilaribad indeed.

Better watch out the John Key fans will be after you........conspiracey theory. Next thing you know someone will suggest it is just a distraction so people pay no attention to Tppa or suggest it is just a legacey issue that Key wants to have made for himself. Shhhhh!

Golly you condescending.

Explain.

It's a well documented fact that a government will do things to try and take press attention away from whatever clandestine and controversial thing they are trying to pull off.  I'm not saying that's the case here - because Key has had a hard on for the silver fern flag from the start. But your comment offers nothing and just dismisses the people who do believe otherwise without any reasoning.

Was just a bit tongue in cheek right? Or did I get too close to the truth!! ;)

We ended up with 3 fern flags and even if she didn't have anything to do with choosing those options, what was the point of having her on the panel to start with given her conflicts of interests.

I think the truth is somewhere between what National and it's fanboys say and the conspiracy nutters. 

The truth is out there.

If John Key wanted something with a silver fern to be the flag, he could have passed a law.

But going to the trouble of having 2 referendums and having a panel of experts (well, maybe not experts) decide on candidate flags makes you assume the process will be fair and democratic.

And involve real choice - obviously 3 ferns and a baby fern (koru) is not a real choice.

I was pro-change before the shortlist was announced.

But if they don't let Red Peak in then I'll probably vote for no change.

I think you go through the trouble of all this to make yourself look like a Leader for all New Zealanders and a democratic one. Imagine if he did just say, fudge it it's time for a new flag, and changed it.

The process is the distraction. Passing a law wouldn't have the same level of media circus. This government is failing on so many fronts. Unfortunately those who most need to vote rarely do.

Sadly, this Government sucks but the alternative is no better. It has now come across as a place full of people whom have lost touch with the real world and real world issues. I wouldn't trust most of them regardless of their party afiliation.

Changing our flag is the least important and should never have been brought up. Housing, Jobs, education, Roadway systems, dysfunctional families and social services that appear not up to it are all more important issues.

In the case of National, Key only ever announces the good news or his own bright desire, eg, changing the flag. The bad new is passed on to Stephen Joyce to announce because he is pig shark thick and can handle the abuse hurled at him like water off a ducks back.

Thanks Ryan, appreciated your explanation.

Agree re Joyce. Two short planks and all