TOP TEN: GREATEST ALL WHITES

I think the current AWs are buy far the best there has ever been, except maybe Rufer.

McGarry.

What do you base that on?

Brian Turner, Grant Turner, Buzzer McKay were much better midfield players than any we have at the moment.

Did you ever see the players play or perhaps you were too young?

I've watched him play against England, Chile, Uruaguay (then Sth American champs) and Aussie, and he was genuine class.

The current squad is one of, if not the best, we have ever produced but McGarry in his prime would still easily make the starting eleven.

How about that guy John Legg ?

The point I was trying to make was that a few months ago in the NZ Herald the ex AW coach Kevin Fallon had said that there were only 3 players from the 2010 squad that he would pick against the 1982 squad.
I know that the pace of the game has changed and the players today are more athletic, but the team in 1982 was very good. It is like saying George Best was good in his era but would not be good enough today.
Our boys today are good and I was surprised how well we performed against Oz.
I just think that our supporters have a much higher expecation than I do. When you watch all the stars on TV they look OK and you think I am as good as them, but when you are on the pitch you suddenley know that these guys are from a different planet.

just wanna take issue with the earlier comment about Rufer "turning his back" on the All Whites in his prime - I'm no Rufer apologist, but there's some facts that need to be understood...

After the WC in 1982, Rufer moved to Europe and launched his pro career... NZ had few meaningful games until the next WC qualifiers in 1985... Wynton and Shane flew back to NZ for those, risking a fine and sacking by Zurich and possibly a FIFA ban - but they stuck to their guns and played against Australia and Israel... then in WC quals in 1989, Wynton paid for his own flight from Germany to Tel Aviv to turn out for NZ, as well as coming back to play against Taipei in Auckland for a match we could have won without him, but he came anyway... he brought Werder Bremen to NZ to help the AWs get matches in the early 90s, and was set to fly home to play Aus in 1993 before the late Ian Marshall convinced him that his club needed him more (Werder were about to win the Bundesliga title).

He went on the AWs Britain, China and Middle East tours in the mid 90s, played WC qualifiers in 1997 ... what exactly else was the guy supposed to do?? he reached heights that no one else from NZ has yet come close to, he literally waved a NZ flag after ever big achievement, he used to sign autographs as "Kiwi Rufer"... the guy was a better ambassador for NZ than a plethora of politicians and celebrities, and played as often as he could, often at personal financial cost.

He's Oceania Player of the Century, and you wouldn't have him in your top ten NZ list... right...

He may come out with a few iffy comments and rub people the wrong way, but as a footballer he was just different class

Ricki Herbert asked not to be considered for selection for the WC qualifiers in 1985 so that he could keep his first team place at Wolves - would you say he "turned his back on the AWs"?? he won a lot more caps than Wynton, but then played the majority of his career in NZ... the fact is, guys who build careers in Britain and Europe are not always going to be able to come play for us - but that doesn't make them any less committed.

and yes, McGarry should easily make any Top 10 NZ list.

Similar to the Oughton situation then

Iain Ormond has never been mentioned, which I find strange. He was one of the best all round strikers NZ has ever produced, certainly one of the best I've ever seen. Leggy, you'd've played with Iain at Suburbs, would you not? How did you rate him?

Quit with the innuendos and insinuations. If you have any hard evidence that Ricki has a personal beef with Oughton, rather than simply not rating him, let's hear it.

It goes like this = Ricki waiting for two players to show up at a Sth American Air Port. Cant get in contact with one but the other "Oughton" is contacted only for ricki to be left standing there looking like a D@#k.  Alot of players were called up or emailed from NZF and some didnt show up for one reason or another ( Nelsen - Greek 2nd div guy etc). Royz2010-06-02 20:45:28

On his day Ian Ormond was one of the best players ever.
He chose to take his business before football, Keith was a very good striker,Alf was only good when he wanted to play, Prevan was great but injury prone, but John W was one of the all time greats. He had a choice to play football or play Davis Cup tennis for NZ. Would not fit in todays game but was a great finisher.
The problem with this thread is that there are so many good players that one could never say who was the best.

Is Ryan Nelson now our greatest ever All White?

In terms of playing for the All Whites, probably, but he has quite away to go to achieve things like Rufer did at the top levels of European football.

He won't ever achieve those things Oska. Still would have to give Rufer a run for his money now.

Rufer has achieved more at club level, Nelson's loyalty to Blackburn meant he never played for a side that would compete in Europe. Nelson isn't a long way off though, his titles in the USA are significant although not as significant as Bundesliga titles and Cup Winners Cup.

Nelsen FFS

Why was Ron Armstrong not available?

He wanted to put more time into his work. 

I guess that's understandable give the training and travel demands that were put on this team

I imagine Armstrong would have been a good addition

The thing that is often overlooked is that there seems to have been a lot of players around at the time who in terms of ability, could have made this side. Having such a large pool of top players to choose from must have been great for Ashead and Fallon.

Who would we now add to this list?  Winston Reid, Chris Wood?  Wood hands down for me, Reid has a lot of competition at the back.  Also feel that Ryan Thomas will one day make this list.

Look I know there were some quality players in the 70's and 80's but none of those players are better than Ryan Thomas already is. Maybe MacKay bossed it at Gisbourne City or whatever glamourous club he played for, but Thomas is bossing it in the Eredivisie, literally one of the best midfielders in a very, very good European league

To be fair, Thomas had just turned 15 when Leggy made that post. 

All Whites 4 Mexico 0   Bill McKinley Pk 1980

I think that "Best All Whites" is, at it's heart, two questions - who are NZ's best players, and who played the best for the All Whites.....and they aren't the same thing.

NZ's best players would be definitely Rufer at the top, then Nelsen, then the likes of (in no particular order) Thomas, Reid, Killen, Wood, Elliott, Vicelich....those guys who had good careers in good leagues.

Those who played best for the AWs; Nelsen for pretty much running the show in 2010, then Sumner......then the likes of (in no particular order) Coveny, Smeltz, B. Turner, Almond, Vicelich, Elliott, Wood etc - guys who played a lot for us over a long period of time and achieved something. 

Marrying those two ideas, Ryan Nelsen would be my best All White. Simon Elliott, Ivan, Woodsie all up there, Thomas will be one day, There's no way I'd consider Wynton Rufer a great All White, but he was our best player. 

Rufer scored the goal that got us to the 1982 World Cup. He was brought into the squad by Adshead late in the World Cup campaign and made a significant difference scoring vital goals. On that alone he was a great All White

Alf Stamp needs to be in the list....

How would he be on the list with only playing four games?

Because he was that fudgeing good.....

Yes, and that goal was a moment in time. Would you therefore consider Rory Fallon a great AW for doing pretty much the same thing? I'm looking over a career of international football and Wynton scored 12 goals in 17 years. 

I love Wynton, greatest player, greatest Kingz, greatest everything....but not a great AW over the course of his career

I did an article about Alf for a now-defunct NZ football mag. It involved a two hour phone conversation with the man himself. Amongst the best two hours of my life that was.

12 goals in 25 games is a bit fairer, he played at a time when clubs didn't have to release players for international games like they do now

Rory Fallon, scored 1 goal in a playoff game, possibly the greatest ever All White moment but its hardly comparable to Wynton being bought in as an 18 year old to score the goals in the second round to help us qualify for the 82 World Cup

Couldnt agree more - it's a career defining moment (Fallon), and Rufer went on to have a much better club career. But his AWs career never hit the heights in the following decade and a half, and his scoring record for NZ is good but not great.

why is this list not a "best 11"??