Legend
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17K
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about 17 years

Rusty Dunks wrote:

I love Wynton, greatest player, greatest Kingz, greatest everything....but not a great AW over the course of his career

Yet Chris Wood is? Do me a favour.

WeeNix
600
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920
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almost 9 years

Not as a player, no, but his AW career is superior to Rufer's. Twice as many games and goals. 

Coveny and Smeltz also inferior but had better AW careers. 

Legend
2.3K
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17K
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about 17 years

Rusty Dunks wrote:

Not as a player, no, but his AW career is superior to Rufer's. Twice as many games and goals. 

Coveny and Smeltz also inferior but had better AW careers. 

Apart from his goal against Mexico at the Confed Cup, his goals have all come against part time fisherman from the islands, or in meaningless friendlies against average opposition.

Rufer actually scored crucial goals to help us qualify for our first World Cup.

Smeltz is up there for his goal vs Italy alone. Also scored a few against decent sides but only in friendlies (Chile, Italy, Serbia).

Coveny didn't score a single important goal for us.

LG
Legend
5.5K
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23K
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over 16 years

Why didn't Richard Wilson get to play in a game at the 82 World Cup? Some of his saves in the qualifying games were supurb.

WeeNix
600
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920
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almost 9 years

Lonegunmen wrote:

Why didn't Richard Wilson get to play in a game at the 82 World Cup? Some of his saves in the qualifying games were supurb.

His moutache no longer fitted the team profile, whereas FvH had a more marketable facefuzz

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

Lonegunmen wrote:

Why didn't Richard Wilson get to play in a game at the 82 World Cup? Some of his saves in the qualifying games were supurb.

Go back to start or middle of this thread. Somewhere there is a story about Fallon and Wilson having a massive half time altercation in a game. That’s the rumour

WeeNix
500
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800
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about 10 years

Rusty Dunks wrote:

Yes, and that goal was a moment in time. Would you therefore consider Rory Fallon a great AW for doing pretty much the same thing? I'm looking over a career of international football and Wynton scored 12 goals in 17 years. 

I love Wynton, greatest player, greatest Kingz, greatest everything....but not a great AW over the course of his career

Wynton scored other very vital goals in that campaign which got us over the line. Wynton had huge issues getting away from his professional clubs in Switzerland and Germany and for the 1986 campaign he defied his club to travel across the World to play for us almost upon arrival. 

Ryan Nielson was a great All White but he went for a period where he refused to play for the All Whites. Wynton never did that.

tradition and history
1.5K
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9.9K
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almost 17 years

coochiee wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:

Why didn't Richard Wilson get to play in a game at the 82 World Cup? Some of his saves in the qualifying games were supurb.

Go back to start or middle of this thread. Somewhere there is a story about Fallon and Wilson having a massive half time altercation in a game. That’s the rumour

It was more than a rumour. It was at Mt Smart and KF had Wilson by the scruff of the neck up against the wall.

Lawyerish
1.7K
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4.8K
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about 13 years

can we ban anyone whom has said that Rufer is not in the top 10 all whites?

Serious question

WeeNix
600
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920
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almost 9 years

He's definitely in top 10 - greatest NZ player, but not greatest All White......

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

whatever wrote:

Rusty Dunks wrote:

Yes, and that goal was a moment in time. Would you therefore consider Rory Fallon a great AW for doing pretty much the same thing? I'm looking over a career of international football and Wynton scored 12 goals in 17 years. 

I love Wynton, greatest player, greatest Kingz, greatest everything....but not a great AW over the course of his career

Wynton scored other very vital goals in that campaign which got us over the line. Wynton had huge issues getting away from his professional clubs in Switzerland and Germany and for the 1986 campaign he defied his club to travel across the World to play for us almost upon arrival. 

Ryan Nielson was a great All White but he went for a period where he refused to play for the All Whites. Wynton never did that.

I think that is the worst spelling of Nelsen I’ve seen yet. 

Starting XI
2K
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4.7K
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almost 17 years

whatever wrote:

Rusty Dunks wrote:

Yes, and that goal was a moment in time. Would you therefore consider Rory Fallon a great AW for doing pretty much the same thing? I'm looking over a career of international football and Wynton scored 12 goals in 17 years. 

I love Wynton, greatest player, greatest Kingz, greatest everything....but not a great AW over the course of his career

Wynton scored other very vital goals in that campaign which got us over the line. Wynton had huge issues getting away from his professional clubs in Switzerland and Germany and for the 1986 campaign he defied his club to travel across the World to play for us almost upon arrival. 

Ryan Nielson was a great All White but he went for a period where he refused to play for the All Whites. Wynton never did that.

I’m personally annoyed that neither played for NZ as much as they should have been we at least know that Wynton desperately tried to play, against his employers wishes.

Nelsen never did that although he did score that all important goal against Aus that took us to our second confederations cup. His 2+ year “injury” has always left a sour taste in my mouth.

I just hope that Wood and Thomas both do something magical and displace these two in White/Black and leave no space for the sort of criticism that both Rufer and Nelsen are open to.

First Team Squad
1.2K
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1K
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over 14 years

From his debut in 1999, through to the 2004 Nations Cup in Adelaide, Nelsen barely missed a beat for the AWs and always made himself available (was utterly immense at Confeds 03).  His 3 year hiatus was for a very specific reason, but he was again fully on board after his return.

Bear in mind Rufer was playing in the days prior to official windows where clubs had to release players etc. And Ryan was also working hard to establish himself in the Prem - at a time where travel, to the other side of the world, was often in coach class, meaning he often picked up niggly injuries etc

Yes it would be awesome to have all our best players all the time - but our particular circumstances don't always make that possible...

And sorry Russ, but Wynton is top10, no question - watch some of those games from the late-80s early 90s and he's the best player on the pitch, from either side, by a mile...

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

Khalil Media wrote:

From his debut in 1999, through to the 2004 Nations Cup in Adelaide, Nelsen barely missed a beat for the AWs and always made himself available (was utterly immense at Confeds 03).  His 3 year hiatus was for a very specific reason, but he was again fully on board after his return.

Very specific being that he didn't like the way he believed Mick Waitt was undermined by other members of the coaching staff at that 2004 tournament

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

Rusty Dunks wrote:

Yes, and that goal was a moment in time. Would you therefore consider Rory Fallon a great AW for doing pretty much the same thing? I'm looking over a career of international football and Wynton scored 12 goals in 17 years. 

I love Wynton, greatest player, greatest Kingz, greatest everything....but not a great AW over the course of his career

I agree with some of what you say Rusty, re Rufer's club career being far superior to his time with AWs. 

However over his AWs career he would have played many times against club sides, almost as many times as he featured in 'A' internationals at a guess. Some of those club sides were real quality. Rufer himself helped bring out Werder Bremen to NZ at one point. How many goals did he score against clubs teams for NZ?

Chris Wood will undoubtedly be an AWs great, but he can fill his boots with goals against weak OFC teams - Rufer never really had that opportunity.

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
·
almost 9 years

coochiee wrote:

Rusty Dunks wrote:

Yes, and that goal was a moment in time. Would you therefore consider Rory Fallon a great AW for doing pretty much the same thing? I'm looking over a career of international football and Wynton scored 12 goals in 17 years. 

I love Wynton, greatest player, greatest Kingz, greatest everything....but not a great AW over the course of his career

I agree with some of what you say Rusty, re Rufer's club career being far superior to his time with AWs. 

However over his AWs career he would have played many times against club sides, almost as many times as he featured in 'A' internationals at a guess. Some of those club sides were real quality. Rufer himself helped bring out Werder Bremen to NZ at one point. How many goals did he score against clubs teams for NZ?

Chris Wood will undoubtedly be an AWs great, but he can fill his boots with goals against weak OFC teams - Rufer never really had that opportunity.

The 12 goals that get mentioned were all goals in A internationals

In total Rufer actually played 38 games for NZ and scored 17 goals - his 5 against clubs sides came against Brighton (2), League of Ireland (2) & Werder Bremen

WeeNix
600
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920
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almost 9 years

Khalil Media wrote:

From his debut in 1999, through to the 2004 Nations Cup in Adelaide, Nelsen barely missed a beat for the AWs and always made himself available (was utterly immense at Confeds 03).  His 3 year hiatus was for a very specific reason, but he was again fully on board after his return.

Bear in mind Rufer was playing in the days prior to official windows where clubs had to release players etc. And Ryan was also working hard to establish himself in the Prem - at a time where travel, to the other side of the world, was often in coach class, meaning he often picked up niggly injuries etc

Yes it would be awesome to have all our best players all the time - but our particular circumstances don't always make that possible...

And sorry Russ, but Wynton is top10, no question - watch some of those games from the late-80s early 90s and he's the best player on the pitch, from either side, by a mile...

It's funny how two people see different things Milts. I had a lot to drink in France but my recollection is that Danny Hay was best player in 2003, and outperformed Nellie by some distance. Elliott had a decent tournie too.

I want to say Nelsen was great in 1999 but when you get to my age.....well, I'm just happy not to be pissing in my slippers

WeeNix
760
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750
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over 9 years

In my lifetime which includes watching the AW's since the beginning of the 60's Wynton was the single most gifted player I ever saw play for the AW's. Public impressions of him can suffer a bit from his unusual personality. I know this is all personal opinion buy Michael McGarry was for me our second most gifted player, he was a brilliant footballer but home sickness had an impact on his pro career. I dont think he gets quite as much credit as he deserves unfortunately.

I couldnt pick a greatest ever AW as there are so many differing opinions of what that constitutes. Have to say there are a lot of players that need to be looked at which is something we couldnt say back in the 60's and 70's. 

First Team Squad
1.2K
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1K
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over 14 years

The other (completely anorak) factor to chuck in to all of this is - would it be a list of the top 10 or 11 All Whites ever, or is it about selecting an imaginary team of 11 as an all time line-up ... so for instance if there were 2 amazing goalkeepers, would they both make the list or would only one as there'd only be one keeper in a starting 11, etc...

Anorak I know, but I like the discussion in this thread...

(and yes, McGarry was a brilliant player)

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
·
about 17 years
I've taken a run at an 80's XI...

Wilson - Herbert, Evans, Almond, Armstrong - McGarry, Sumner, Cole, G Turner - Rufer, Walker

Bench: Gosling, Dods, Dunford, Edge, Wooddin
Phoenix Academy
160
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150
·
over 1 year
Darren McClennan anyone?

Watch him take Uruguay to school in our famous draw in 1995 on their home turf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htSnrLLPANE&list=PLiMasHMkgoHes57EU7aqC8O9vVSt3LMLO&index=76

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
·
about 17 years
hugely under rated. loved watching him play. fast, aggressive, good in the air. only had one speed though, which made finishing a little difficult at times
Marquee
4.5K
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6.6K
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over 11 years
reg22
I've taken a run at an 80's XI...

Wilson - Herbert, Evans, Almond, Armstrong - McGarry, Sumner, Cole, G Turner - Rufer, Walker

Bench: Gosling, Dods, Dunford, Edge, Wooddin
Excellent, can hardly argue with that, although if I was going to quibble I'd have Barry Pickering in goal or as reserve keeper at the very least. Best keeper I ever saw in the 80s.

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