All Whites vs Mexico, Confederations Cup | Thur 22 June | 6am | Sochi | SS2

This isn't the time for potential, this is the time for solid players. It's the biggest tournament we've played in 7 years, and you want us to use it with players that potentially might be good in future?

Jai Ingham can barely get gametime for the Victory, it's easy to see why he isn't in this squad.

note - this is me criticising Hudson for selecting him, not me criticising Ingham. He certainly has a lot of potential, he's just not up to playing big games against Mexico and Portugal yet.

I see what you are saying but IMO Ingham is better than Wynne and Doyle already. He is our best option at right back (again... just my opinion) and has immense potential so I agree 100% with Hudson's decision to start him.

I mean, I don't think it is a coincidence that the only Mexican player who wasn't terrible on the night was Javier Aquino, who pretty much had his way with Ingham throughout. 

Still lots of potential, but not up to this stage whereas the rest (or most) of the All Whites most definitely were tonight. 

True, but what attacking options do we have off the bench? Monty Patterson, that's it pretty much? Rufer doesn't get any game time for the Phoenix yet he is still picked, Patterson plays for Braintree Town in the sixth division of English football, has scored once in 12 appearances and he is one of our first attacking picks off the bench. When you don't have the attacking depth on the bench, a player like Jai Ingham could be useful. And he does get some game time in a very strong Victory line up and in a league which is far superior to the English 6th division. Btw I'm not hating on any players in the All Whites squad like Patterson. Just making the observation. 

Rugby doesn't have diving because the criteria for fouls/penalties is different. It does have plenty of cynical pushing of the limits of the rules and subtle infringements deliberately committed to gain a competitive advantage, and the ABs are as bad as anyone for doing those things

I would agree with the cynical stuff happening in both sports however rugby has more cynical stuff happen to a person without ball for the team in possession like for example obstruction to the ball carrier whereas today Boxall in open space with the ball at his feet and the guy had no hope of getting possession off him so tugged his shirt and is literally piggy backing him like a bobsled. That stuff should be card material or they should make a sinbin offence for it. It seems football is not too strict on professional fouls compared to Rugby where you can concede points or get a man sent off. The diving aspect is something that is hard to stamp out. It would be a very long time until there is a rule to penalize the professional fouls.

Jai Ingham has 1 goal in 21 games last season, so on a goals per game ratio, Patterson is the better option.

Now I don't necessarily believe that statement and it's logic, but just showing that stats don't always tell the whole story... 

Jai Ingham is a winger, Monty Patterson is a striker. There are plenty of world class wingers who score very few goals so I don't think this stat is necessarily the best one to compare these players.. Also the A-League is a wayyyy higher standard than the English 6th division (which is maybe comparable to Central League here) and the Victory is a very good team (probably low Championship or Top of League One level). Based off this logic, selecting Jai Ingham is a no-brainer.

I don't know if you've ever watched 6th division football in England, while it is competitive and there are some okay players, the overall standard is pretty low...

I'll take your world for it, Mr Ingham.

If there's one obvious thing with Hudson, he does not place any importance on the strength of the club side or league a player is playing in. 

Sometimes that seems odd, but in the case of someone like Clayton Lewis, it's worked out pretty well for the AWs.  

There is also the age factor - Patterson is young, you would hope that the level he eventually settles at is higher than where he's playing right now. Hard to get good playing time at his age in an attacking role at a bigger club. 

I'm not sure what you're getting at - my response was to Ninja, who had said you would never see an All Black acting like that against a minnow. I think you would if you looked at the closest equivalent rugby has to diving, bending the rules or breaking them for professional advantage. It wasn't about how the sports' authorities respond to those issues. 

 

Ummm, what about Jeremy Brockie?

Mexican coach's explanation (Spoiler alert - it's all our fault)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/939...

the player who held Boxall was eventually cautioned following the VAR. In our local football many cautions are for this type of action  known as breaking up a promising atrack.

Patterson's got the same number of international goals...

Referee did my fargin head in!! 1. The Mexicods had him fooled too easily with their predictable simulating. 2. He let too many late/cynical challenges go which eventually led to retaliation/brawl 3. Fudgeed up the whole VAR thing - didn't know what he was looking for - suspect not all his fault on that one.

Patterson wasn't our only attacking option off the bench; Kosta came on, Smeltz was there, and McGlinchey, Thomas or Rojas could have been pushed further forward. Outside this squad, I would argue Boyd and Brockie are better attacking options than Ingham.

The guy that gave a little headbutt to Thomas wasn't carded... retrospective ban? Can't imagine FIFA are not looking at it.

We're talking about club performance/level.

Sorry if we used words that were too big but do try to keep up.

I can

Everyone bitching about the VAR, but for me the cards given out were about right. 

The Mexican who pulled Boxall's shirt got booked for the shirt pull. 

Boxall, who lunged in on Herrera, got booked for lunging in on Herrera.

Herrera, who reacted to the lunge by Boxall, got booked for reacting to the lunge from Boxall (he leaned his head in, but there was no real headbutt so I don't think it should have been a red card)

Thomas, who reacted to Herrera reacting to Boxall, got booked for reacting to Herrera.

Apart from that there was the usual holding and pushing, which was all a bunch of handbags. You would either have to booked about 12 players for it, or book no one. Which is what they did.

I'd give you Brockie but seriously take Boyd out of that conversation.

Why?

I think Boxall's challenge is quite easily a red. And headbutts are reds. 

You blokes played well today you surprised a lot of people .

So what did the NZ bench allegedly say that got the Mexican coaches poncho all in a twist?

"" Mexican food looks like vomit, with cheese grated on it" LOL

Ffs! We're even 3rd rate in the expletives rankings! 

Ta. And it seems you blokes also put in "an improved display" (UK Guardian) v Cameroon for 1 - 1. And probably won't progress either.

Thomas didn't get a yellow for the incident - he was already booked earlier in the game, had he would have been sent off.

Thomas should have been carded I thought, lucky boy. 

There was no card for the player who headbutted him, so pretty much zero chance he was getting carded there.

It's a good point though, he probably should have, which brings us up to four red cards that the referee didn't give.

Is that including Rafa Marquez's unpunished two footed lunge earlier in the game. On Thomas maybe?

The problem was the ref not stamping any authority on the game earlier.  

By the time Marquez came on he and Boxey were just flying into everything because they had been given guidance from the ref that it wasn't likely to be punished.

if im understanding this correctly, you'd rather the human donkey over one of the most skillful attackers New Zealand has produced in recent years? If I were Hudson i'd drop Smeltz and Patterson for Boyd and Bevan. 

Hi Tyler

Your not serious?

Tyler certainly seemed one of our more technical players - but having not sited him for years, its hard to know where he is at comparatively. If he gets loaned out to a prem side as indicated on his clubs page he will certainly have to be looked at.

Can Hudson ignore a player playing in the Portugese top flight?

in the past 5 years name me the huge range of attackers we've produced and tell me he's not up there in terms of skills and technical ability. 

So technical he used his left for standing on only.... or have we forgotten.

He is very much over rated. I seriously doubt Boyd would be banging them in like Brockie. In fact comparing Boyd and Brockie (was it the human donkey?) in the same league Brockie >>>>>> Boyd. 

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