All Whites v Korea | Tuesday 31st March | 11:50pm | SS1

edit: sorry 2ndBest tidying it up now.

Will we get more games against Korea if we turn up with a development squad? Has he watched the Asian Cup final? The only way I can see this team getting a look in is if Korea play some young players or take the foot off the gas...

That's not my quote for the record.

Brazil 6 Australia 0, France 6 Australia 0

I think FFA learned quite a bit from those games in 2013 before taking Oz to the World Cup. 

NB Pity Brazil didn't.

I like Hudson's approach and think what he's doing with the squad is commendable, very ballsy, but commendable. 

At the end of the day we have to start somewhere, now whether this should be against South Korea, well, I'm not sold on it - perhaps it would be tempered a little by playing another lower ranked asian opponent in this window..... But what I do know is that I wouldn't expect the South Koreans to do us any favours by naming a 'weakened' or 'development' type squad - They'll still be hurting from the Asian Cup defeat to Australia, and they already had a very decent squad there, so they'll be out for blood.

Looking forward to seeing what the young fulla's have to bring to the table, as well as seeing what these van den Broek and Tzimipoulos chaps offer us in the bigger scheme of things.

Why would Korea agree to play us if we give them less competition than a K league team? Would Dura, Siggie or Boxall walk into a K league team? Burns couldn't get off the bench. 

Plus as a fan I want to watch our best team give Korea a challenge. I don't want to have to be explaining to all the mocking I'm going to get- oh but it's only a development team etc etc...

Also as a fan, and as a team trying to build momentum and consciousness with the wider public- I think the AWs are the number one team. 

If people see the AWs getting beaten easily they tune out and say- oh we're useless.

I'll come back to it- the credible results on the European tour and against Wales were the beginning of me being really enthusiastic about NZ football. It was fun to watch us play Brazil, but we got one header and it went over the bar. In that game we were the Washington Generals. Not any more.

People know the Korean team- Asian cup finalists, former WC semi-finalists- and if we can put up a good result against them, backed up by other good results we start getting good viewer numbers on Sky, we start getting good attendances, good press and good hype- momentum for the team and the sport. 

Experienced players like Smeltz who are household names are part of that. I understand what he is saying- just as a fan I want Smeltz on the bench. Then if we go down it always seems like it's game on. 

Of the other players, I'm somewhat disappointed about Howieson not being included, but to be honest I've seen far too much of Brockie missing goals in the last couple of years. Though again he could definitely be a threat against Korea, the way a younger player might not.

I really just want us to challenge Korea in Seoul, not try and play to a style, but fail to win a game. Ricki wasn't a purist of the tikka takka, but he managed to get some results. 

On the flip side- a good Olympics, a good qualifying campaign for the WC, a good Confederations cup and that also would build some decent momentum too. 

I do just feel cheated as a football fan of the best possible contest. I don't feel like we should be giving out jerseys too easily or weakening our team when we're not super flush with talent. But again, he's got a plan. Ehh.

I just got round to watching that Hudson interview. What stood out for me was how much he is committed to making sure all the NZ teams (U20s, Olympics, AWs) are aligned, and how much he is committed to professionalism. He talks a lot about things like managing recovery from games, building relationships with clubs, and even using contacts to get young guys gigs overseas. Ultimately he seems like he's more than just our senior men's coach but is basically doing a sort of technical director role as well. My personal opinion is that his way of looking at the game and ideas and planning are just what NZ football needed and we're lucky to have him.  Obviously he's young and inexperienced as a coach but I'm sure he could have found a better paid and higher profile job than this. I think he sees it as a chance to make his mark and to get to the big stage.

I think his plan is great - the proof will be in the pudding of course but for now it's hard to fault. Yes, it would be good to play our best (current) team and try to get a result against South Korea, but in terms of achieving broader goals of developing kiwi football and ultimately going back to the World Cup it wouldn't contribute much at all.

Personally I think the first indications of whether this approach is working or not aren't going to come in AWs friendlies but in the Olympic qualifying, and to a slightly lesser extent the U20 WC. I'm confident it will payoff though.

Yeah, no mind should be paid to friendlies for me. They're all just building up the qualifiers. Bit like Ange with the Socceroos - part of the footballing public over here wanted him sacked because of his poor results in friendlies. Then he wins the Asian Cup and he's apparently the best coach ever.

With out thin footballing schedule, we can't afford to waste a friendly by parking the bus and trying to nick a result. That will do us no good whatsoever going forward.

Well yep. My objections are only two-fold 

•  I want to watch us challenging Korea as a fan. Cos I think we certainly could. If this team can great.  Otherwise what's the point in watching? 
•   I want players to earn and value the chance to be in the AWs. Maybe those who know the Wanderers team can explain better how players from a team in the lower half of the ASBP can challenge Sth Korea?

Feel the fans are owed a bit after the tepid game against Thailand. I want us to play with heart and desire to win. Hopefully this team with Reid, Wood, the new Euros, Marco, Kosta, Thomas, and Tuiloma can. I don't want to sit through a match where we fail to waltz through their defence in the first half and then lose 3-0 or worse late on, because we didn't have other options. Or get smashed 6-0 or worse. I don't want our tactics to be too rigid and predictable either. I think Stielike is likely to trump Hudson for coaching heft, but I'll guess we'll see. Korea were damn impressive in the Asian cup.

I just really want more chances to see an in form Smeltz in the All Whites, especially against such a tough opposition. It'd be nice if we can call Hudson the Kiwi Ange. Proof will be in the pudding. Ange had quite an impressive recent record going into the Aussie coaching gig though.

Hudson has no idea on what the AW's will be up against except for island nations - we could be playing off vs Uruguay for that matter.

Ange knew what teams were in front of him and had played a system that worked to suit it.

Reminds me of John Adshead's selections before he settled on the 1982 All Whites squad.

He tried and discarded heaps of guys including many of the most experienced and highly-regarded players of the time.

It certainly worked out long term for him.

People forget now, but before they thrashed Mexico in August 1980, Adshead's All Whites had an absolutely disastrous 1980 Oceania Nations Cup in Noumea in February where they were thrashed by Fiji and Tahiti and had the one win against the Solomons (who were cannon fodder in those days - beaten 12-1 by Tahiti):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_OFC_Nations_Cup

http://www.ultimatenzsoccer.com/NZRepSoccer/id1563...

Of that Oceania Nations squad, only five of those who played made the All Whites World Cup squad 14 months later.

In the couple of years before the World Cup qualifiers, Adshead cast aside many of the biggest names in NZ football at the time such as Keith Nelson, Bill de Graaf, Chris Turner and Keith Hobbs.

Before the 1981-82 World Cup qualifiers, he tried lots of youngsters like Mike Groom, Johan Verweij and Mark Armstrong who didn't make it but others like Herbert, Simonson, Richard Wilson, van Hattum, Grant Turner and Duncan Cole who did.

The only experienced players who survived the cut from the disastrous 1980 Oceania Nations Cup were Steve Sumner and Bobby Almond (some younger players also survived like Richard Wilson who only had six caps before the Nations Cup).

Afterwards, Adshead brought back into the squad established All Whites like Brian Turner, Adrian Elrick, Clive Campell and Sam Malcolmson and selected many new caps who were already established names in the Rothmans National League like Steve Wooddin, Keith McKay, Glen Dods and John Hill.

I see it as a good thing that Hudson's prepared to look at young pros like Marinovic and Crocombe and u-20 players like Stevens, Brotherton, Wynn and Lewis.

But hopefully he'll see the value of bringing back several of the senior players later like Smeltz, Brockie, Smith and Moss.  

Hearing Burfoot was told he would have been a shoe-in for the Under-20's but missed by 3 months.

Thats a valid point re owing the fans something after the Thailand match. That really was as bad as the Horror in Honiara but was just a friendly so swept aside. He's clearly seen the need to strengthen the midfield as we were completely overrun in that match. 

The objective will be having that intensity like we did against China and a style of play that is a pressing game with quick movement esp through transition. 

I take a lot of heart from what the Nix have done in that regard. It can be coached. Hudson therefore needs to select the best AND most coachable players as he recognises that we won't win matches from having one or two stars but a cohesive, well coached unit.

I remember him saying against China they focused on process and v Thailand it was the result. I expect the week before the match will be very detailed in terms of style of play, transition, movement etc with the focus of the match being putting these processes into action and taking the pressure off the result. 

As far as players go we need to stop playing wee mac so deep as he isn't effective there. That's why the new guys are crucial. We also need to see Rojas and Kosts show more in front if goal as we can't just rely on Wood. 

Looking forward to it though, there is a lot to be excited about. 

A good idea for Hudson is to get a squad of 50 together when all the domestic seasons have ended. I think he should play two or three trial games. The teams could be arbitrary or they could be 'local players vs foreign' or 'North Island vs South Island.' I think that would be a worthwhile exercise and enable him to see who is worth perservering with and who should be dumped on the trash heap. A big part of me thinks that Hudson should do whatever the hell he wants. Another huge part of me is incredibly disappointed that we get a chance to play a team like South Korea and we are probably going to get done 5-0. I'm all for Hudson getting this trial period but I hope that when the domestic season starts next year that Hudson is picking his best squad for every game.

You are all missing the point. Who's to say that this isn't the strongest squad? Hudson has watched game after game and analysed players all over the world. Just because we may not have heard of them doesn't mean that they are not better than other players we have heard off !

Secondly just because a player is young doesn't mean he isn't better than an older more established player.

Im sure this will not be the finished squad that goes to the world cup qualifiers but I am looking forward to the Korea match and am confident that we can do well.

If this is his best squad then he is saying that Max Cocrombe is better than Glen Moss, that Sam Brotherton is better than Tommy Smith, that Sam Burfoot is better than Chris James and that Ryan de Vries is better than Shane Smeltz. If he is saying those things then he either knows a lot more about football than everyone else or he knows absolutely nothing. I think Hudson basically says that this isn't his best squad though and he wants to try new combinations.

Yes, but once again we are only missing 2 certainties (Smith and Moss). The starting eleven will probably be a our stoniest team bar those two.

I think the main thing is the core of the team is pretty stable and Hudson is trying new players in max 2/3 positions a match. its not like he is going to start all the new guys on the pitch. Team will look something like GK(?), Fenton, Reid, Themi, Wynne,, Kosta, Van de Broek, Billy T, Thomas, Wood, Rojas. Question is how does wee Mac fit into this. Personally I think he is competing with Thomas and Rojas as we need more muscle in front of the back 4. I thought he was very absent against Adelaide today and hasn't been as effective last few weeks. But by our standards is a class player and Rojas and Thomas are 70 min players at best. 

I think Fenton deserves a go ahead of Roux. I think he offers more going forward. Part of me would push Themi into midfield,and not start Billy T, to see how he goes as we are pretty strong with our CBs but Bill T is far from a permanent fixture in that role at club or country level in spite of his obvious natural talent. 

Roux is well ahead of Renton as a RB.

He's been ordinary for the Mariners this year. I'd give Fenton a run to see how he transitions from the A League to internationals. The issue with Fenton is he is still a winger playing wing back. However he has curbed his instincts a little under Durante and Siggy but still offers a lot going forward. I'd anything it would create some competition for a position we had no one in until a couple of years ago. 

I never said it was the best squad I was simply saying that just because we haven't heard of a player or that they are young it doesn't automatically mean they are worse than a more established/better known player. Tommy Smith will be in the final squad as will Tim Payne and, probably Glen Moss. However, I cannot see a place of Chris James at all and Burfoot and Brotherton may well surprise you!.

Very good point that.  Hudson got dumped by a non league club side and only seemed to have had moderate success for Bahrain. 

Surely the U23 qualifiers are a better environment to blood the young non pros, not the AWs.  Cheapens the significance of the Fern otherwise I feel.

interesting the Wanderers players selected. How about the younger Nix players like Ridenton and co.. The U20s team will comprise only about half of the Wanderers wont it? 

Brotherton is a interesting selection. What is he like on the big field? I have played a fair bit against him at indoor and while he was quite good I never thought he would be called up to the All Whites

Shock of the century.

so what's up with Fallon? Out in cold completely? 

Whoops! Rory Fallon!

Too old for 2018, doesn't suit the style of play and would only be a back-up. Makes more sense to blood young forwards.

Guess he's too old for what Hudson is looking for. With Wood and Smeltz and a another young striker like Joel Stevens will be enough

You are going to struggle to fit Thomas, Kosta and Marco on the field. Too similar and then have Wood as well.

Ridenton is injured and has not being playing. He may be signed to a bigger club than others, but he is not playing and the level he is playing at, is no different to the Wanderers kids. No one has been saying he has been ripping it up either ala Boyd at that level. Similarly with Payne. He was ok at ACFC and despite all his experience etc, was not setting the world on fire.

I'm not so sure some of the names mentioned offhand that should/would be there, will be.

Strangely enough no one was saying Hicks was ripping it up either right? But when he came on for the 'Nix I thought (sorry americanism on the way) he ran the offense quite well and then of course his free kick. 

You've illustrated the point better than I could. Ignore the name, history and who they play for and look what they are doing on the field.

Payne not there because hes trialling in the US. Howieson still playing at a very low U21 still and needs to get out James 4th level french and prob shouldve come and played ASB prem.

I was also just interested in Hicks form in the ASBP. He's performed well for the Phoenix. Has he been obviously that good for the Weenix?

Did he even play for WeeNix?

Better to get thrashed by SK than who ever we gotta play to make Russia in the play off we will lose but I doubt it will be by more than 2-3 goals. 4-2-3-1: Marinovic. Fenton-Reid-Tzimop-Tuiloma. Van Den Broak-Wee Mac. Thomas-Barba-Rojas and woodsy up front. 

Link Tuiloma wont play LB and Weemac is not a central midfielder

Tuiloma RB sorry I meant to good a prospect to leave out. True on wee Mac but I would like to see Rojas, Thomas and Barba all start as well as wee mac. He has played the position before not recently yes, but for CCM in the past he has. I think he would go all right with a destroyer next to him like Van Den Broek. Wee Mac isn't much of a goal scorer as opposed to a goal creator 6 assists this year and almost 50 shot assists his A league total assists are almost double his goals scored tally in short I think he will benefit from having those extra players in front of him giving him some more passing options going forward. 

Along with Wood, I don't think that many attacking players is feasible, particularly when we need to be able to beat some teams that are far better on paper (like Korea).

I would go for something like Crocombe; Fenton, Boxall, Reid, Roux; Tuiloma, van den Broek, Tzimopoulos; Rojas, Thomas; Wood

As long as the ref and South Korea don't realise we have an extra player that should work nicely ;)