http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=1127049
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/81/10/29/circularno.1147-eligibilitytoplayforrepresentativeteams_55197.pdf
These refer to 17 but found its been relisted as 7. I was looking at 2010 statues so apologies. Either way, you've still highlighted the answer and my point remains. A friendly is a type of football and he played one, for NZ, and was not eligible for Japan. How do you not see that?
2014 Friendly Discussion - China & Thailand in Nov
Any category or any type of football refers to age group football etc, not friendlies. If friendlies did count in tying you to a country then they wouldn't bother writing "in an official competition" would they?
What it means is you can't play an official competition match, either at full 'A' international, age group or any other level for one country then switch to another, unless you meet the requirements of Article 8.
Love how two people can read the same thing and take two different meanings. But e isn't eligible. He needed to be eligible when he played the friendly.
Vince Lia couldn't play for NZ because he'd already played for Australia in an Official Competition, and wasn't eligible for NZ at the time.
Andrew Durante never played for Australia.
Marco was eligible to play for Chile until he played for us in an official competition.
Until Fitzgerald plays for NZ in an official competition match, he can switch allegiances.
You have to have held the other nationality at the time you played for the other country for a friendly to be able to change. Because Durante never played for Australia in that friendly, he thus was deemed never to have played international football (for anyone) so when he played his 1st international friendly, he had dual nationality and was not tied to Australia. If subsequent to Durante playing for us (for example) in a friendly only, he would still have been able to switch to Australia. Fitzgerald didn't have the option of choosing another nation like Marco thus, to make the switch to another nationality (Japan) he can't have ever had taken the field for NZ because at the time of that game for NZ, he was not eligible for Japan regardless if it was an official game or not. To be able to change nationalities, you much have had another one at the time you played in any international game (although competition games tie you to that country)
Article 17 Acquisition of a new nationality
Any Player who ... [assumes] a new nationality and who has not played international football [in a match ... in an official competition of any category or any type of football for one Association] shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfills one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.
He has played for NZ so the rest is irrelevant.
Actually Fitzgerald has not played in a full International for NZ, so that is not a reason he could not change allegiance, as Wibble has said, if a player has not played in an official competition for a country then they are free to change allegiance.
As per Big Pete's posting http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/kiwi-players-overseas/topics/the-all-new-michael-fitzgerald-thread-albirex-niigata?page=9#post_926434 Rufer stated something about the club being concerned that Fitzgerald wouldn't get his visa, which is incorrect as Fitzgerald must've had a visa otherwise he couldn't have stayed in Japan. I think Rufer meant his citizenship, which means Fitzgerald was in the process of applying for citizenship when he played for NZ.
As per Article 17 or 7 quoted by Vader and Wibble - I think you'll find Fitzgerald actually meets condition (d). He has lived in Japan since he was 16. He attended a Soccer High School and finished his High School years in Japan. He was signed by Niigata when he finished High School http://www.seiritsu-int.com/contents/2007/09/, therefore he has lived in Japan continuously for 8 years and condition (d) only requires 5 years.
The whole of the argument is irrelevant. Fitzgerald is only one of 72 Centrebacks in the J League eligible to play for Japan, so highly unlikely that he would ever get called up to play for Japan. The chances of him being selected above a Japanese born player is not likely to occur.
The other point as mentioned previously is regardless of what FIFA statutes state, Japan is a country that does not allow dual citizenship ie: you can't represent another country and retain Japanese citizenship. So while Fitzgerald lives and plays in Japan as a citizen, he will not play for another country.
it dosn't seem to say that here:
Modern phase (2009–2013)[edit]
Three major changes were seen starting in the 2009 season. First, starting this season, four clubs entered the AFC Champions League. Secondly, the number of relegation slots increased to three. Finally, the AFC Player slot was implemented starting this season. Each club will be allowed to have a total of four foreign players; however, one slot is reserved for a player that derives from an AFC country other than Japan. Also, as a requirement of being a member of the Asian Football Confederation, The J.League Club Licence regulations started in 2012 as one criteria of whether a club was allowed to stay in their division or to be promoted to a higher tier in professional level league. No major changes happened to J.League Division 1 as the number of clubs stayed at 18.
Also I see Kenny Cunningham played for Gainare Tottori in 2012 and also made an appearence for Costa Rica in that same period?
it dosn't seem to say that here:
Modern phase (2009–2013)[edit]
Three major changes were seen starting in the 2009 season. First, starting this season, four clubs entered the AFC Champions League. Secondly, the number of relegation slots increased to three. Finally, the AFC Player slot was implemented starting this season. Each club will be allowed to have a total of four foreign players; however, one slot is reserved for a player that derives from an AFC country other than Japan. Also, as a requirement of being a member of the Asian Football Confederation, The J.League Club Licence regulations started in 2012 as one criteria of whether a club was allowed to stay in their division or to be promoted to a higher tier in professional level league. No major changes happened to J.League Division 1 as the number of clubs stayed at 18.
Also I see Kenny Cunningham played for Gainare Tottori in 2012 and also made an appearence for Costa Rica in that same period?What is your point?
Gainare Tottori is only a JFL team.
When Fitzgerald was loaned to the JFL sides by Niigata, he played as a foreigner and consequently played for NZ. However when Niigata, the J-League side took him back, they took him back as a Japanese citizen to ensure he wouldn't occupy a foreign spot.
At the 2002 Korea/Japan WC, That Japan team had a Brazilian born player in there squad called Alex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Santos
Vince Lia couldn't play for NZ because he'd already played for Australia in an Official Competition, and wasn't eligible for NZ at the time.
Andrew Durante never played for Australia.
Marco was eligible to play for Chile until he played for us in an official competition.
Until Fitzgerald plays for NZ in an official competition match, he can switch allegiances.
You have to have held the other nationality at the time you played for the other country for a friendly to be able to change. Because Durante never played for Australia in that friendly, he thus was deemed never to have played international football (for anyone) so when he played his 1st international friendly, he had dual nationality and was not tied to Australia. If subsequent to Durante playing for us (for example) in a friendly only, he would still have been able to switch to Australia. Fitzgerald didn't have the option of choosing another nation like Marco thus, to make the switch to another nationality (Japan) he can't have ever had taken the field for NZ because at the time of that game for NZ, he was not eligible for Japan regardless if it was an official game or not. To be able to change nationalities, you much have had another one at the time you played in any international game (although competition games tie you to that country)
Article 17 Acquisition of a new nationality
Any Player who ... [assumes] a new nationality and who has not played international football [in a match ... in an official competition of any category or any type of football for one Association] shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfills one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.
He has played for NZ so the rest is irrelevant.
Actually Fitzgerald has not played in a full International for NZ, so that is not a reason he could not change allegiance, as Wibble has said, if a player has not played in an official competition for a country then they are free to change allegiance.
As per Big Pete's posting http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/kiwi-players-overseas/topics/the-all-new-michael-fitzgerald-thread-albirex-niigata?page=9#post_926434 Rufer stated something about the club being concerned that Fitzgerald wouldn't get his visa, which is incorrect as Fitzgerald must've had a visa otherwise he couldn't have stayed in Japan. I think Rufer meant his citizenship, which means Fitzgerald was in the process of applying for citizenship when he played for NZ.
As per Article 17 or 7 quoted by Vader and Wibble - I think you'll find Fitzgerald actually meets condition (d). He has lived in Japan since he was 16. He attended a Soccer High School and finished his High School years in Japan. He was signed by Niigata when he finished High School http://www.seiritsu-int.com/contents/2007/09/, therefore he has lived in Japan continuously for 8 years and condition (d) only requires 5 years.
The whole of the argument is irrelevant. Fitzgerald is only one of 72 Centrebacks in the J League eligible to play for Japan, so highly unlikely that he would ever get called up to play for Japan. The chances of him being selected above a Japanese born player is not likely to occur.
The other point as mentioned previously is regardless of what FIFA statutes state, Japan is a country that does not allow dual citizenship ie: you can't represent another country and retain Japanese citizenship. So while Fitzgerald lives and plays in Japan as a citizen, he will not play for another country.
At the 2002 Korea/Japan WC, That Japan team had a Brazilian born player in there squad called Alex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Santos
Love how two people can read the same thing and take two different meanings. But e isn't eligible. He needed to be eligible when he played the friendly.
Ok let me try and write this out more clearly. PLEASE read the rules properly!
Article 5 states the conditions that tie a player to a certain country (you can read "type of football as friendlies here if you want, although that's not what it means - it's talking about futsal & beach soccer), and states a player may not change unless they meet the requirements in article 8. The requirements needed to change allegiance are NOT stated in this article.
Article 7 states the requirements that are needed by a player in order to be eligible to change to another national team.
Article 8 is the important one. This states the exceptions needed in order to change allegiances. Read this carefully! It categorically states that a player cannot change if he has played an official competition match at 'A' level, or if he has played an official competition match and at the time was ineligible to represent his new country.
That's it. Friendlies are not mentioned at all because they don't count! Fitzgerald has NOT played for NZ in an official competition so may choose to switch if he wants.
I would also like to point to the case of Cristian Gimenez, who played for Argentina U20s in 2001. He got citizenship of Mexico in 2013 and played for Mexico that same year.
He was ineligible to represent Mexico at the time of playing for Argentina, but because the games he played were not deemed as official competition matches (Argentina were invited as 'guests' into the 2001 CONMEBOL Youth Championships) he was allowed to switch to Mexico.
Vince Lia couldn't play for NZ because he'd already played for Australia in an Official Competition, and wasn't eligible for NZ at the time.
Andrew Durante never played for Australia.
Marco was eligible to play for Chile until he played for us in an official competition.
Until Fitzgerald plays for NZ in an official competition match, he can switch allegiances.
You have to have held the other nationality at the time you played for the other country for a friendly to be able to change. Because Durante never played for Australia in that friendly, he thus was deemed never to have played international football (for anyone) so when he played his 1st international friendly, he had dual nationality and was not tied to Australia. If subsequent to Durante playing for us (for example) in a friendly only, he would still have been able to switch to Australia. Fitzgerald didn't have the option of choosing another nation like Marco thus, to make the switch to another nationality (Japan) he can't have ever had taken the field for NZ because at the time of that game for NZ, he was not eligible for Japan regardless if it was an official game or not. To be able to change nationalities, you much have had another one at the time you played in any international game (although competition games tie you to that country)
Article 17 Acquisition of a new nationality
Any Player who ... [assumes] a new nationality and who has not played international football [in a match ... in an official competition of any category or any type of football for one Association] shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfills one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.
He has played for NZ so the rest is irrelevant.
Actually Fitzgerald has not played in a full International for NZ, so that is not a reason he could not change allegiance, as Wibble has said, if a player has not played in an official competition for a country then they are free to change allegiance.
As per Big Pete's posting http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/kiwi-players-overseas/topics/the-all-new-michael-fitzgerald-thread-albirex-niigata?page=9#post_926434 Rufer stated something about the club being concerned that Fitzgerald wouldn't get his visa, which is incorrect as Fitzgerald must've had a visa otherwise he couldn't have stayed in Japan. I think Rufer meant his citizenship, which means Fitzgerald was in the process of applying for citizenship when he played for NZ.
As per Article 17 or 7 quoted by Vader and Wibble - I think you'll find Fitzgerald actually meets condition (d). He has lived in Japan since he was 16. He attended a Soccer High School and finished his High School years in Japan. He was signed by Niigata when he finished High School http://www.seiritsu-int.com/contents/2007/09/, therefore he has lived in Japan continuously for 8 years and condition (d) only requires 5 years.
The whole of the argument is irrelevant. Fitzgerald is only one of 72 Centrebacks in the J League eligible to play for Japan, so highly unlikely that he would ever get called up to play for Japan. The chances of him being selected above a Japanese born player is not likely to occur.
The other point as mentioned previously is regardless of what FIFA statutes state, Japan is a country that does not allow dual citizenship ie: you can't represent another country and retain Japanese citizenship. So while Fitzgerald lives and plays in Japan as a citizen, he will not play for another country.
FIFA does not rule the world. Countries have their own laws, and country laws around immigration aren't written to suit FIFA.
My point is - Japan would revoke Fitzgeralds' citizenship, if he chose to play for another country. They would see it as disloyal, after he applied for and then accepted Japanese citizenship. You're talking about a country who even though there's International laws against hunting whales, they totally disregard them and prosecute foreigners who get in their way, trying to stop them.
When Fitzgerald accepted Japanese citizenship he would have been made aware of the fact he was pledging allegiance to Japan only and therefore revoked allegiance to any other nation. While he remains a Japanese National he will never play for any other country, unless he's prepared to give up his Japanese citizenship.
If he's secured a 3 year contract as a Japanese Citizen (posted on his personal thread), it is highly unlikely he would give up his Japanese Citizenship to play for any other country.
Just to wrap up this discussion, Wibblebut is absolutely 100% correct on this, Fitzgerald can represent Japan at A international level if called up.
The confusion around having to have eligibility to represent both countries is a stipulation applicable only in situations where a youth player represents a country in an official game at an age-grade level (e.g. U17/20 World Cup, or qualifying for such tournaments). It does not, however, apply to players who never played such games, but have gone on to represent a country in a friendly A international only. In such instances, the player in question can switch eligibility once he complies with the required FIFA regulations (i.e. 5 years' continuous residence in the new country) even though he didn't have the eligibility to play for the second country at the time he played for the first country in the A international friendly.
And as Wibblebut correctly points out, A international friendlies are not official competition as far as FIFA regulations are concerned, so nothing in FIFA regulations prevents Fitzgerald from playing for Japan if he is selected.
Not sure why he would not want to play for the mighty all whites!
There was an ad for the AFC Nations Cup in Aussie during Jan 2015 today, it got my wondering if we might be able to pick up a friendly against some of the top AFC teams during the lead up.
Would fit in well too with countries wanting to send their u-20 teams here for friendlies prior to the u-20 World Cup in June 2015.
We had a great little "mini u-17 World Cup" tournament at QE II Stadium in Christchurch the year before the actual u-17 World Cup in 1999 (featured NZ, USA, South Africa, Tahiti). Several future stars for those countries played including Landon Donovan and DaMarcus Beasley for the USA. Both were already outstanding players and of course ended up as stars of MLS and the Premier League, Dutch Eredivisie etc. .
Just to wrap up this discussion, Wibblebut is absolutely 100% correct on this, Fitzgerald can represent Japan at A international level if called up.
The confusion around having to have eligibility to represent both countries is a stipulation applicable only in situations where a youth player represents a country in an official game at an age-grade level (e.g. U17/20 World Cup, or qualifying for such tournaments). It does not, however, apply to players who never played such games, but have gone on to represent a country in a friendly A international only. In such instances, the player in question can switch eligibility once he complies with the required FIFA regulations (i.e. 5 years' continuous residence in the new country) even though he didn't have the eligibility to play for the second country at the time he played for the first country in the A international friendly.
And as Wibblebut correctly points out, A international friendlies are not official competition as far as FIFA regulations are concerned, so nothing in FIFA regulations prevents Fitzgerald from playing for Japan if he is selected.
All absolutely correct - the game changer regarding Fitzgerald is that he never played in a competitive match (or any match I think) for any NZ age group side - not selected for NZ at u-17, u-20 or u-23 level. If he had played a competitive match for a NZ age group side, he would have done so while not eligible to play for Japan, which would have counted him out from ever being capped by Japan.
As it is, there's nothing to stop him. But unlikely anyway he'd be considered good enough considering all the other capable Japanese players.
Our hope is if he gets signed by a European club, he could then renounce his Japanese citizenship and take up his NZ passport again.
Fitzgerald can get a European Union passport through his dad apparently (according to Rufer, who should know), so could get a visa to play in Europe that way without relying on his Japanese citizenship (Fitzgerald's mother is Samoan).
People will probably face-palm at this but I think he could still play for us and retain his Japanese citizenship and local player status in Japan. FIFA rules are different than individual country requirements. Are we presuming that because he plays for nz, the Japanese goverment will revoke his citizenship? I doubt any country bases their citizenship criteria on who you play football for?
Japan is a country that likes their rules. Their citizenship rules are very clear, you can not hold two passports. They also are not a race that takes kindly to being embarrassed. If he was an office worker, they would probably never know if he reapplied for his kiwi citizenship and perhaps not care so much. An international footballer however, sticking his finger at them playing Japan in an international would be a step to far. He would probably be deported and there goes his professional career he has worked so hard for the past 8 years.
People will probably face-palm at this but I think he could still play for us and retain his Japanese citizenship and local player status in Japan. FIFA rules are different than individual country requirements. Are we presuming that because he plays for nz, the Japanese goverment will revoke his citizenship? I doubt any country bases their citizenship criteria on who you play football for?
Does it have to be a passport? How about a birth certificatr? Does that trump a passport?
Does it have to be a passport? How about a birth certificatr? Does that trump a passport?
Can't travel on a birth certificate. (:
But can with a birth certificate and a Japanese passport.
Does it have to be a passport? How about a birth certificatr? Does that trump a passport?
It has to be the passport. All players have to present their passports to the FIFA delegate before an international game.
We were you 4 months ago when we were all querying this?
Frankly got bored with all the bullshit and different interpretations of all the rules quoted ad infinitum. Finally got down to the guts of it and able to pose a question that got a couple of succint answers (appreciated) and your pissy little comment (meh).
Wasnt talking to you NP
Was for El Grap and in no way pissy
Apologies tv, my bad.
All good Napes :)
Scotland or Sweden to play in Australia before the WC? Any chance they could come here while they're in this part of the world? Would be awesome to see Zlatan in NZ!
Scotland or Sweden to play in Australia before the WC? Any chance they could come here while they're in this part of the world? Would be awesome to see Zlatan in NZ!
I'd love to see Sweden there (NZ), as far as I'm aware we have never played them. Hopefully the new CEO sees this as an opportunity to get the AWs back into a positive light in NZ after the WC Qualifying mess.
After England and Mexico, they would have to be one of the best teams to have every played in NZ if it happens (Japan and S. Korea back in the day does not count).
Sweden would be sick if Zlatan comes! please, please
Scotland or Sweden to play in Australia before the WC? Any chance they could come here while they're in this part of the world? Would be awesome to see Zlatan in NZ!
Sweden and Scotland apparently now unlikely. Are playing Croatia in their final build-up game June 6 in Brazil. All Whites for their "their farewell game at Sydney's OIympic stadium in late May before departing for Brazil"????
"The Socceroos' next clash will be their friendly on March 5 in Europe with the FFA yet to confirm an opponent.
Australia will then play their farewell game at Sydney's OIympic stadium in late May before departing for Brazil.
While Scotland and Sweden were initially touted as options, with the Croatia match on the cards, it looks likely Ange Postecoglou's side will face a non-European team in the send-off match."
I think the 2015 AFC Asian Cup in Australia will bring some friendlies our way late this year and very early jan next year. However with no news on a coach or interim coach thus far, Are friendlies more important then a coach? Or a Coach more important then a friendly.
ONLY FIVE WEEKS UNTIL HE ALL WHITES' NEXT GAME:
Will the All Whites v Japan be on Sky TV? Surely it will be because all Japan team games including friendlies are broadcast in Japan.
Who will coach the All Whites? (Bet you it will be Neil Emblen)
JAPAN V NEW ZEALAND TOKYO WEDNESDAY MARCH 5th 11.40 PM NZ TIME:
(7.40 PM IN TOKYO - JAPAN ARE FOUR HOURS BEHIND US)
"As the first game in 2014 used as the FIFA World Cup year, SAMURAI BLUE (representative of Japan) greeted the representative of New Zealand, and being pitched against each other in the National Stadium on Wed., March 5 determined it.
This game of representative of Japan in the present National Stadium the last."
2014/3/5: Open 16:40 / Kick Off 19:40 Category 1: 8,000 yen, category 2: 6,000 yen, category 3: 4,800 yen, category 4: 3,000 yenThe Asian champions, headed for their fifth straight World Cup finals next summer in Brazil, will host the All Whites on March 5 in their last game at Tokyo’s National Stadium before the venue is rebuilt for the 2020 Olympics.
Alberto Zaccheroni’s side will play once more at home, on May 27 at Saitama, before leaving overseas for training camp.
Japan’s first World Cup game is against Ivory Coast on June 14 in Recife, followed by Greece on June 19 in Natal and Colombia five days later in Cuiaba.
“We’ll only have a couple of days to prepare for the New Zealand game in March,” Zaccheroni said. “We won’t have played since November and everyone plays for different clubs where they do different things, so we need to get everyone back on the same page.”
Impressive coach - Alberto Zacceroni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_ZaccheroniFormer AC Milan, Inter, Juventus, Lazio, Torino, Udinese manager
"He is best known for having managed a number of top clubs in Serie A, and won a scudetto with A.C. Milan in 1999. He is renowned also for his unconventional and trademark 3–4–3 tactical system."
"Three-at-the-back" advocate like our Ricki was.
With Australia playing there fair well game against South Africa on May 25 or 26 in Sydney. I think they are a worthwhile opponent to try bring to New Zealand. All Whites Vs Bafana Bafana should sell tickets - There a strong side, Just don't know if the crowds would turn up for a game in May (Cold/Rainy/Windy). But i guess that would depend on where it was played too.
With Australia playing there fair well game against South Africa on May 25 or 26 in Sydney. I think they are a worthwhile opponent to try bring to New Zealand. All Whites Vs Bafana Bafana should sell tickets - There a strong side, Just don't know if the crowds would turn up for a game in May (Cold/Rainy/Windy). But i guess that would depend on where it was played too.
Does it not grate that we have nothing after Japan and yet many contries have friendlies line up for 2015 already.
With Australia playing there fair well game against South Africa on May 25 or 26 in Sydney. I think they are a worthwhile opponent to try bring to New Zealand. All Whites Vs Bafana Bafana should sell tickets - There a strong side, Just don't know if the crowds would turn up for a game in May (Cold/Rainy/Windy). But i guess that would depend on where it was played too.
Does it not grate that we have nothing after Japan and yet many contries have friendlies line up for 2015 already.
Well its not like we need a friendly in May or for the rest of the year at the expense of NZF funds. Given the AFC cup is not to far away and Im sure some teams will come over here (paying there own way) for friendlies/warm up games. I say its more important (To NZF) for the U20's to get funding for games ATM. However it would be nice to see the AW's in action at home again.
The Aussie commentators mentioned we are playing Costa Rica in May during the Nix game. Fingers crossed.
The Aussie commentators mentioned we are playing Costa Rica in May during the Nix game. Fingers crossed.
Heard that too.. Hope they are right!
The Aussie commentators mentioned we are playing Costa Rica in May during the Nix game. Fingers crossed.
Heard that too.. Hope they are right!
Would be cool/ good for both Kenny and Carlos to be included and playing against us
Would love that to be true but how would they know?