Going forward - (un)realistic options

A new stadium is not unrealistic. 

Go away Frank.  Not in the mood.

Yes that was partly because the disjointed way it was presented, but in the main it is because the majority of people who elect these councillors did not want a bar of it.

15 years on after the Regional Council built Westpac, there are a significant number of ratepayers who are very dirty on the whole thing.

Local elections next year. Maybe stand in your Ward on a "Build another stadium"  ticket, just don't give up the job you have at the moment.

That is why councils do not want a part of it. They have a constituency well beyond the 6 or 7 thousand voters that may want to use a new stadium and are prepared to pay for it. 

The new stadium was built because Athletic park was falling down, it was dead beyond saving.  If it still had 20 + years life left in it do you think the new stadium would have been built? 

Don't get me wrong I would love a new stadium, but in my world the sun rises in the East and sets in the West

Don't need another stadium. We have one already. Make the most of what we have. Unless your a real rich prick and wanna fund and run another stadium then go hard boy

Take a look at Forsyth Barr (Dunedin) books and learn a lesson. It is a lovely modern ground, almost in the middle of town, and with a proper roof, and a complete financial basket case the ratepayers are going to be saddled with for years to come.

But it is an awesome stadium that will in time prove to bd an excellent investment.

True. But Dunners has a declining population unless you count the students. 

This is why Wellington is such a rare example of a successful football club despite its stable but relatively small population (in context of a country where rugby is the national wankfest). Auckland is the elephant in the room and it cannot be left out of this conversation.

Lack of significant European (= continental) immigration is behind low popularity of football in New Zealand comparing to metropolitan Australia, but Auckland is large enough on its own to generate sufficient support for a football club in my humble opinion. This should not however be a question of either/or - I would only support it in addition to Wellington Phoenix.

What a strange metric.  Do other immigrants not play football or follow it?

Someone better tell Mangere they don't exist. And Roy.

Yeah. People from Africa, Latin America and lots of Asia follow football, and there are plenty of immigrants from there. They might not be world-beaters in India or Bangladesh, but they love the game as much as cricket. Certainly more than ruggers.

So what you're saying is that the club needs a "Meteor Traction Beam Research Division" . . . I'll start working on my proposal immediately.

Can said meteor take out parliament as well? Especially the top floor after yesterday's stupid comment.

I like this idea of pushing the pitch closer to the seats on one side, and cutting the corners of the pitch into the seating slightly, allowing for a temporary stand alongside the opposite touchline. Croud would be much closer all round, and would reduce capacity enough to get that full and loud feel. If it was done properly it could look quite good, and could be easily put up and taken down when necessary, perhaps even with replacement temp seating in the 'corner cuts' so it got back to 34.5k when put back. And can't be that expensive can it? Certainly nowhere near the prices of whole new stadiums? 

Surely it has merit and could get backing with WCC since it doesn't negatively impact on the existing investment like petone etc would? 

All I am saying is that I believe the continental migration to Australia after the WWII was the chief reason for the relative popularity of football there despite similar problems to NZ with other ball sports dominating. People like Frank Lowy or Les Murray grew up in Czech and Hungarian migrant households. The A-League is simply a more slick commercial product to sell to the masses than the old NSL (and the Phillips League before it) was.  

It is a devil's advocate argument. If I am to stand corrected and the migrants populating Auckland, while not as blatantly continental,  are similarly football loving as those who came to Sydney or Melbourne etc., then clearly an Auckland club in the A-League is just a matter of time. Unless they all caught the "I can't be bothered, there is too much on" Jaffa attitude, that I keep reading here about, right on arrival.

I think all new immigrants should be offered incentives to locate to the rest of NZ.  The Myanmar community in Nelson were brilliant when they came over to Wgtn for the U20 WC.

We had a chat with a group of them after the game- smashing bunch

Pretty decent idea J82.

.

The annoyances of living in a free country, maybe we should do what countries like Russian and China do and have internal passports so that they can make sure you are where your supposed to be.

But seriously, I don't know why people want to stay in Auckland - espeacially immigrants who might be on lower wages. The costs of living would be crippling.

Okay. Here is why I stay in Auckland:

0) The cost of living is pretty much the same as Wellington - rents are somewhat higher but not too much, comparing inner-city with inner-city.

1) The weather is better.

1a) ... so electricity bills are lower in winter.

2) More multicultural - more people who come from the same part of the world as you.

2a) More international business contacts.

3) More jobs which aren't in the public sector or public-subsidised (arts, education) sector.

4) After decades of decay, we're starting to get a proper public transport system together - as opposed to Wellington's which has been treading water since I left.

4a) The trains aren't cancelled every other weekend.

Downsides:

1) No Phoenix.

As a Wellingtonian-JAFA, I hate this debate coming up all the time, and I get antsy when people think that the growth of my adopted city is bad in and of itself and decide they want to bribe people not to come here or even ban them from doing so. In contrast, I say let them come. As long as Phil Goff gets elected mayor and carries on Len Brown's scheme of building more apartments and better public transports, the more people the better. And Wellington can stay that cosy, compact city that we all know and love as well.

These points get debated ad nausium on here and its usually you that bring it up, it's pointless. Wellington has much better access to nature, is much greener, and its probably the easiest place in the world to live, at least that I've come across. But regardless of impressions I was talking from a purely commercial point of view, there are jobs down here and despite what people from outside Wellington seem to think its not all fat cat politicians, the public sector is relatively insignificant. But rents are cheaper and a normal person can actually buy a house in their lifetime. A friend of mine had an agreement with his landlord to buy the house in sunnynook on the north shore that he was renting, but overnight last year the valuation went from 800k to 1.4 million. The house was a shark hole and miles from anywhere. He'd saved about 50k so was close to having a deposit as well but no way could he afford the new RV's. 

He had the impression that most people do that Wellington is cold, dreary, and full of government workers but we were starting a business together, the capital we raised was all based in Wellington so I convinced him to move his family down and he absolutely loves it. He's convinced more of his Auckland friends to do the same. These are Lawyers and IT professionals who may earn as much as six figures but still can't afford a house in Auckland but can get straight into the property market in Wellington.

I hate it when people talk about the public sector fat cats, the truth is that the public sector is of a similar scale to the arts sector and much smaller than the tech sector.

The public sector provides 15% of employment in Wellington the national average is 10% of people working for the public sector. For comparison the average spread across the US is 17% the average in Europe is often above 30%. So the average amount of public servants in Wellington is less than the average spread across entire countries not just capital cities.  It's a very small public sector. Most Jobs in Wellington are in computers 21% of the economy is in IT and there are very large employers in town like Xero that are desperate for talent. Wages are higher than in Auckland and unemployment is lower. The population, while not as multicultural, is much more educated on average and there is a huge cultural scene down here.

The truth is people go to Auckland because everyone goes to Auckland, otherwise known as the Kim Kardashian effect.

Who cares?

Doloras brings it up a lot.

Fully agree with that.

And why can't other centres attract/incentivise immigrants to reside there and reap similar benefits of multiculturalism and economic growth?

We Hawkes Bay residents hate everyone equally!

Gisborne pisses all over you Bay folk anyway.

Oh yes, Auckland is a concrete jungle where there is no escape from concrete, roads, and killer robots who had all living things.

But you're right about the Shore. It's a shark hole. Everything that the most biased Wellingtonian says about Auckland is true, if you're talking about the Shore.

I like the word "gammon".

I live 4-5 KM from the CBD right next to a 225 hectare ecological island, twenty minutes ago eight endangered Kaka were sitting on my deck. A few hundred metres away from me is the entrance into a 250 hectare mountain bike park, I work from home but when I did work in the CBD I could cycle almost the entire way to work without leaving the bush. If I wanted to catch the bus it ran every ten minutes and took fifteen minutes to get to work. My house is large, modern, has quite a lot of land, faces north, is sheltered, has sea views, and cost under $500k. I've got access to an almost endless bushwalk network from up the road, or a couple of km away across the suburb.

There is no way I could have a lifestyle in anyway comparable to my own if I lived outside of Wellington. And I live in a suburb that a lot of Wellingtonians think is undesirable (because its extremely middle class and conservative - family friendly is a term often used). Most suburbs offer similar access to nature, some are on the beach, some have huge reserves. The green belt of Wellington is its greatest asset.

I lived in Mt. Eden for 6 years, I know that Auckland offers plenty, it's just inferior to the life that I can have here.

Karori?

Brooklyn I'm betting.

K-Town is desirable as.

Yeah its K Town.

Karori is like Wellington, only people that live here know how great it is.

This makes me sad that I'm moving out of Welington so I can afford my first house.

Still got to start somewhere and I will keep working in Wellington.  One day if I get a big promotion or pay off my mortgage in the Wairarapa I can look at moving back to this glorious city.

Nothing wrong with Karori, apart from the cold and damp. I was a casual-academic so I lived Kelburn/Northlandish.

Well I was probably exaggerating the bus situation it's probably closer to 20 - 25 minutes to get to Lambton Quay more on peak, I used to catch the 21 which was bloody good but I moved and now it's the 3 or 3s which is not so good, also technically Makara Peak is a couple of km's away I was counting the salvation track which runs from Wrights Hill down to across the road from the Makara Peak main entrance as part of the bike park, I don't know if its officially part of it or not. I wasn't exaggerating the 8 Kaka's though. They come around every now and then and make a hell of a noise.

Funny most peoples dream is to leave Wellington and move to the Wairapa. Apart from the limited train timetable it would be a great place to live.

Depends where you live in Karori, it's a huge suburb and most people live in the bottom of a valley or on the northern side of it facing south, I'm up on the southern side and facing north so get plenty of sun and no damp. Also above the fog line a good chunk of the time.

And we've got a mall that isn't westfield.

I always thought K Town was Kawerau