Junior ....Im just relieved where your sexuality appears to be heading ....
I think I had one of those once.
Not sure where it went.
#marriedwithchildren
$40-45 Million Soccer Specific Stadium - Petone Phoenix
No offence taken, AJ. Eden Park is in fact a weird cross between a narrow oval and an elongated pentagon, which means that it's suitable for neither cricket nor any code of football, but that doesn't stop people. But the long sides are closer to the action than the nearly-circular RoF.
May I make it clear at this point that The Nix Must Stay In Wellington - no Wellington, no Nix. I'm muttering about what might happen if Bill Gates decides he wants to fund an Auckland A-League team.
[/quote]
I'm an Aucklander :o)
I actually agree with you. The Phoenix are a Wellington team and should stay that way. People forgot we had 2 teams and the instant they shit out, they get 1.3k to games. The Phoenix, at their lowest, have never had that much drop off. Yeah we had a crowd of 18k. How many came up from Wellington? Lets say 4k. How many came from outside Auckland (Waikato/Northland) Lets say 1k. 13k in a population of 1.4m is nothing to start getting hard over. In fact, its quite embarrassing.
An HAL side here wont work. Its been done already. Why go back to the well once again to find what had been proven by fact.
I actually agree with you. The Phoenix are a Wellington team and should stay that way. People forgot we had 2 teams and the instant they shit out, they get 1.3k to games. The Phoenix, at their lowest, have never had that much drop off. Yeah we had a crowd of 18k. How many came up from Wellington? Lets say 4k. How many came from outside Auckland (Waikato/Northland) Lets say 1k. 13k in a population of 1.4m is nothing to start getting hard over. In fact, its quite embarrassing.
An HAL side here wont work. Its been done already. Why go back to the well once again to find what had been proven by fact.
Yeah right :-)
Under 300 I'd say
Outside, under 500
It was a good Auckland crowd JV.
I support the Nix being a Wellington team, and no more than 2 home games away, one being in Auckland
If the Welnix can break even/turn a profit, I think an Auckland team in a few years time is a good possibility, to follow their business model
FYI, according to Auckland Council's stadium strategy, Eden Park will be #1 ground for all football codes with NHS as #2, Mount Smart as #3 (+ speedway) and cricket moved to Western Springs, which sounds totally fair enough to me.
But who would mow them ?
FYI, according to Auckland Council's stadium strategy, Eden Park will be #1 ground for all football codes with NHS as #2, Mount Smart as #3 (+ speedway) and cricket moved to Western Springs, which sounds totally fair enough to me.
With the Len Brown Bunga Bunga Party Lounge?
I'm with the "stick with Wellington" brigade but would definitely like to see Westpac rise to the challange of keeping one professional NZ A league team going, and for better crowds by looking at their spectator experience. There are teams in Europe that would dream of a 35,000 seat stadium to play in. I don't believe either the problem is necessarily with the venue; there are improvements that could be make and in any case isn't owned by us, the general public?
Location great, stadium size great, configuration could be better, facilities for the fan not great.
Come Westpac raise your game and work with Welnix!
FYI, according to Auckland Council's stadium strategy, Eden Park will be #1 ground for all football codes with NHS as #2, Mount Smart as #3 (+ speedway) and cricket moved to Western Springs, which sounds totally fair enough to me.
With the Len Brown Bunga Bunga Party Lounge?
Great man, our Len. Adds colour and spice to the job, and winds up the Victor Meldrews in Orewa, Remuera and Howick.
FYI, according to Auckland Council's stadium strategy, Eden Park will be #1 ground for all football codes with NHS as #2, Mount Smart as #3 (+ speedway) and cricket moved to Western Springs, which sounds totally fair enough to me.
With the Len Brown Bunga Bunga Party Lounge?
Great man, our Len. Adds colour and spice to the job, and winds up the Victor Meldrews in Orewa, Remuera and Howick.
True yellow fever fan that guy! no'm sayin?
FYI, according to Auckland Council's stadium strategy, Eden Park will be #1 ground for all football codes with NHS as #2, Mount Smart as #3 (+ speedway) and cricket moved to Western Springs, which sounds totally fair enough to me.
With the Len Brown Bunga Bunga Party Lounge?
Great man, our Len. Adds colour and spice to the job, and winds up the Victor Meldrews in Orewa, Remuera and Howick.
Prefer our Greenie Celia (*shudder*) to your Brown.
I actually think the facility at Westpac is fine as is the offer of food and booze etc. We can always complain about the prices but they've got to turn a profit too. Places like Twickenham, Headinglyd [I think] and other large stadiums also have a smaller stadium adjacent for smaller events and associated lesser costs. That would be the solution wouldn't it? Slot in a decent sized indoor arena a la Vector and a convention centre with hotel and you have a pretty good set up that would provide a whole lot of stuff that the Capital needs.
The problem with the food/drink is that Spotless has a monopoly. No competition so value declines.
The problem with the food/drink is that Spotless has a monopoly. No competition so value declines.
Eatings cheating anyway
I actually think the facility at Westpac is fine as is the offer of food and booze etc. We can always complain about the prices but they've got to turn a profit too. Places like Twickenham, Headinglyd [I think] and other large stadiums also have a smaller stadium adjacent for smaller events and associated lesser costs. That would be the solution wouldn't it? Slot in a decent sized indoor arena a la Vector and a convention centre with hotel and you have a pretty good set up that would provide a whole lot of stuff that the Capital needs.
OK, so thinking "big", how about demolishing St Pat's town (keep the artifical turf) and build a 15-20k seat rectangle stadium next to the ASB indoor sports arena? Then build a light rail from the railway station through to the airport (complete with extended runway) with a stop at the sports complex.
Celia gets her light rail. We get a better stadium, the airport gets a longer runway.
Problem?
Oh yes, the current Westpac stadium then becomes a humoungous park and ride hub and doubles as an occasional T20/AFL/Bon Jovi venue.
The problem with the food/drink is that Spotless has a monopoly. No competition so value declines.
Exactly, turn the concourse into a food market and give people the opportunity to rent a space - the cold $4 burgers won't last long that's for sure
Daniel Burgers for everyone!
Its strange. To begin with I thought the idea was insane. But the more I think about it the more I think there is a potential gap in the market for a smaller stadium along with other complexes surrounding it.
Ideally this would be in Wellington, near the stadium. But that it ends up in petone isn't all that far fetched either.
Or maybe I'm going insane.
Its strange. To begin with I thought the idea was insane. But the more I think about it the more I think there is a potential gap in the market for a smaller stadium along with other complexes surrounding it.
Ideally this would be in Wellington, near the stadium. But that it ends up in petone isn't all that far fetched either.
Or maybe I'm going insane.
I would look at the likelihood of this right now as zero
- wgtn city council and regional council own/run the stadium. No chance they will pay for another stadium to compete with it and they would oppose it strongly as stadium would/could become a white elephant
- that leaves Hutt City council funding it. Likelihood of Hutt council funding it without regional council money or central govt - let's be generous and say 25%
- likelihood of a "super council" in the next 5 years, probably 60/40. If that happens then likelihood goes back to zero.
I just don't see any real chance of this happening (although I am not as pessimistic about Petone as a location as others are).
The only solution is the stadium, it's the wrong facility in the right place. The current arrangements aren't working for the major tenants which are the Phoenix, Super Rugby and NPC. So there needs to be changes made - altering the design may be expensive but so is a new stadium! Maybe that's what needs to happen because what we have right now doesn't work at all. Mixed use stadiums were one of the worst ideas ever
It would actually be fairly good for the Hutt as a city. So the council may at least partially fund it.
The nix may see benefit, and use the hurricanes to prop it up. The lions would definitely see a lot of benefit out of it, a lot more benefit than the nix would get out of it I suggest.
If you get enough interested parties, you never know.
I don't think it'll happen either, but I don't think its completely outside the realm of possibility anymore.
It would actually be fairly good for the Hutt as a city. So the council may at least partially fund it.
The nix may see benefit, and use the hurricanes to prop it up. The lions would definitely see a lot of benefit out of it, a lot more benefit than the nix would get out of it I suggest.
If you get enough interested parties, you never know.
I don't think it'll happen either, but I don't think its completely outside the realm of possibility anymore.
I just think you're never going to get public money to fund a competitor stadium - there would be an outcry from Wgtn ratepayers who still fund the stadium out of rates. I think that's a non-starter. Nix are not going to pay for it, they'll move if somebody builds it but they're not going to fund it.
Ultimately this is all a negotiating strategy for discussions with the stadium I think, just like all the stuff about how much they make taking games away from Wellington.
Right now the stadium deal is the difference between a club that costs money and a club that makes money. This is a key negotiation
Yep absolutely. And at the end of the day, if those parties I mentioned got together and even talked about the prospect the stadium would have no choice but to offer them better terms.
The Hutt council wouldn't care about any outcry from Wellington rate payers though would they? A small stadium etc in petone would be a huge boost to the region. I think its something they've talked about as a possibility if things with the stadium don't improve.
Yep absolutely. And at the end of the day, if those parties I mentioned got together and even talked about the prospect the stadium would have no choice but to offer them better terms.
The Hutt council wouldn't care about any outcry from Wellington rate payers though would they? A small stadium etc in petone would be a huge boost to the region. I think its something they've talked about as a possibility if things with the stadium don't improve.
Yep it is possible - I'm assuming there will be some sort of "super council" by then as that seems to be the way the wind is blowing.
I wonder what the absolute cheapest you could do it for would be? Dunedin was over $200mn so $25mn to 30mn seems cheap to me
The problem with the food/drink is that Spotless has a monopoly. No competition so value declines.
Well Fritz and the Donuts aren't Spotless so not quite a monopoly but your point still stands. The sort of industrial scale catering that Spotless does is quite expensive and really requires those kind of prices. Smaller market type stands could probably provide cheaper and more varied goods to your standard Phoenix game but would be completely insufficient for an All Blacks game or the 7s and events of that scale. Caravans or even independents using the Spotless facilities would really struggle to cater to a 20k+ event or even a 15k.
It would be cool to see a greater variety of things like Fritz around the stadium, a little more variety would be nice.
One day NZF might just want to hold the World Cup here (2026?). Every stadium upgraded would help.
The problem with the food/drink is that Spotless has a monopoly. No competition so value declines.
It would be interesting to know when their contract is up for renewal.
The problem with the food/drink is that Spotless has a monopoly. No competition so value declines.
Well Fritz and the Donuts aren't Spotless so not quite a monopoly but your point still stands. The sort of industrial scale catering that Spotless does is quite expensive and really requires those kind of prices. Smaller market type stands could probably provide cheaper and more varied goods to your standard Phoenix game but would be completely insufficient for an All Blacks game or the 7s and events of that scale. Caravans or even independents using the Spotless facilities would really struggle to cater to a 20k+ event or even a 15k.
It would be cool to see a greater variety of things like Fritz around the stadium, a little more variety would be nice.
Having worked on the hospitality/catering side of things at some large events such as festivals and big commercial fairs/shows where 20k is a drop in the ocean. You'd be surprised how easily a bunch of small independent caters can quite happily accommodate those sorts of figures.
You probably only have to cater for around 6000- 8000 for food max, if that. The vast majority is getting beverages out - which is not rocket science.
All you have to do is offer each stand as a pitch and just come up with a price and lease it out for the season.
You only can serve so many due to space and time, (hmm sounds a bit Dr Who that). So what is the difference of having a kitchen manned by 6 Spotless employees or 6 independent? You are saying that that the local Curry houses, Chinese, Chippies, Outside Caterers with a few household names such as BK and Macca's could not come up with a better service than Spotless?
What Spotless do well at are Hospitals, Prisons, Nursing homes where they offer the whole package of providing food, linen and cleaning. Going to a live event is about enjoyment and the whole experience - good food contributes to that. Good food is not Spotless strong point. Their food is cheap, basic, but does the job.
I think whoever signed Spotless up missed the whole point of catering at a live event. Sure it's easier for the Stadium to just have to deal with one firm but you are dealing with paying customers who expect something decent, not inmates or patients who don't pay for the food and therefore have very little say in what they get to eat.
If the stadium do see us as a captive audience, that will accept any old crap, then they deserve to have poor attendance they are currently getting.
Article in yesterdays Hutt News re Petone Rec proposal... hmmmm...
PS: NEVER read the comments... lol
Now would be a good time to look at some stats on where the bulk of phoenix supporters reside?
From reading these forums I always get a distinct feeling that there's a lot from the hutt and also the kapiti coast.
The problem with the food/drink is that Spotless has a monopoly. No competition so value declines.
Oh yes, the current Westpac stadium then becomes a humoungous park and ride hub and doubles as an occasional T20/AFL/Bon Jovi venue.
You could even have All Whites games here. Oceania world cup qualifying would be great at a small ground like this. What might only be 8k at the stadium could be a sell out in a ground like this with people knowing it'l be a much better atmosphere. You could bring the Socceroos to Westpac stadium next week for a friendly and you might not even hit 10k ...
The problem with the food/drink is that Spotless has a monopoly. No competition so value declines.
Well Fritz and the Donuts aren't Spotless so not quite a monopoly but your point still stands. The sort of industrial scale catering that Spotless does is quite expensive and really requires those kind of prices. Smaller market type stands could probably provide cheaper and more varied goods to your standard Phoenix game but would be completely insufficient for an All Blacks game or the 7s and events of that scale. Caravans or even independents using the Spotless facilities would really struggle to cater to a 20k+ event or even a 15k.
It would be cool to see a greater variety of things like Fritz around the stadium, a little more variety would be nice.
Having worked on the hospitality/catering side of things at some large events such as festivals and big commercial fairs/shows where 20k is a drop in the ocean. You'd be surprised how easily a bunch of small independent caters can quite happily accommodate those sorts of figures.
You probably only have to cater for around 6000- 8000 for food max, if that. The vast majority is getting beverages out - which is not rocket science.
All you have to do is offer each stand as a pitch and just come up with a price and lease it out for the season.
You only can serve so many due to space and time, (hmm sounds a bit Dr Who that). So what is the difference of having a kitchen manned by 6 Spotless employees or 6 independent? You are saying that that the local Curry houses, Chinese, Chippies, Outside Caterers with a few household names such as BK and Macca's could not come up with a better service than Spotless?
What Spotless do well at are Hospitals, Prisons, Nursing homes where they offer the whole package of providing food, linen and cleaning. Going to a live event is about enjoyment and the whole experience - good food contributes to that. Good food is not Spotless strong point. Their food is cheap, basic, but does the job.
I think whoever signed Spotless up missed the whole point of catering at a live event. Sure it's easier for the Stadium to just have to deal with one firm but you are dealing with paying customers who expect something decent, not inmates or patients who don't pay for the food and therefore have very little say in what they get to eat.
If the stadium do see us as a captive audience, that will accept any old crap, then they deserve to have poor attendance they are currently getting.
Never thought I'd disagree with you but in the case of Spotless, it has to be said. They do a shit job at the prisons and have done so so consistantly they the staff have renamed them "Pointless" because that is what they are. Thank God theyare I ly doing the maintenance and not the catering.
Parking and access to Petone from anywhere is dead easy and plentiful but I cant see Petone being the choice. If people from the coast came over by car they'd have no problems but by train or bus is a deterant. Where the games are now, its not hard to get to and yet still people living in and around Wellington directly are still not attending. There are a fair few from the hutt, Upper Hutt Wwainui, Waiarapa, Hawkes Bay etc that actually make the effort.
Let's be honest here, the stadium was built partially with a successful Blackcraps in mind and dreaming of sellout attendances following them. Since day one there have rarely been Cricket sell outs. But there have been Rugby sellouts and football sell outs and even League sell outs and all three codes would have benefited from a square stadium and a closeness of fans like they are down in Dunedin. The mayor at the time whom pushed hard for the stadium (Something which I felt we needed too) and at a central position but I think the Westpac stadium trust etc backed the wrong horse. That being cricket.
Oh yes, the current Westpac stadium then becomes a humoungous park and ride hub and doubles as an occasional T20/AFL/Bon Jovi venue.
No. I like it a lot.
Just suggesting that there already is a dedicated indoor sports arena on flat land close to the airport that could be used, rather than the existing stadium.
If it removes the Bon Jovi factor then I'm all for it.
Its interesting that the Phoenix get bumped from their timeslot at the stadium around the same time that there is talk of building a second smaller stadium.
Its interesting that the Phoenix get bumped from their timeslot at the stadium around the same time that there is talk of building a second smaller stadium.
CONSPIRACY!
Oh yes, the current Westpac stadium then becomes a humoungous park and ride hub and doubles as an occasional T20/AFL/Bon Jovi venue.
No. I like it a lot.
Just suggesting that there already is a dedicated indoor sports arena on flat land close to the airport that could be used, rather than the existing stadium.
If it removes the Bon Jovi factor then I'm all for it.
Article in yesterdays Hutt News re Petone Rec proposal... hmmmm...
PS: NEVER read the comments... lol
Almost stopped after reading the first sentence.... "The prospect of Paul Ifill scoring a winning goal for the Wellington Phoenix on the Petone Rec is not as far-fetched as it sounds." It sounds extremely far fetched to me considering he's extremely unlikely to be playing for the Nix if/when a stadium is ever built there.
I'd actually forgotten about Kilbirnie's indoor sports centre.
That was meant to be on the stadium concourse. ANother example of a poor decision putting it out there.
Putting aside the probable notion that this whole discussion is a ploy to
negotiate better terms at the RoF…
I like the idea of Petone Rec ground as a venue for a
dedicated 15,000 seat rectangular stadium for the Phoenix. Its walking distance
to Ava station and closish to Petone station. Very close to Jackson St with all
the fine establishments for pre and post-game entertainment. Adjacent wintec
and possible links to sports and nutrition type courses. Option for new
training base at north park across the road from Petone rec. Plenty of options
for car parking.
A really nice rectangular stadium with close seats for
12,000 – 15,000 would be awesome for the ‘Nix and Im sure the experience would
be better and attract additional punters. Wellington dosnt have a decent rectangular
mid sized stadium so I do think there is a gap in the local infrastructure that
could be filled by a new Stadium in Petone.
And the Hutt Valley could sustain a stadium like this. There’s
over 150 thousand residents in the hutt valley (more than in Hamilton or
Dunedin). I think the Council would be seriously interested in being a partner in
the stadium.
To answer some questions from earlier in this thread…. What
makes the Christchurch stadium temporary? The scaffolding and the seats which
are leased and not owned by the stadium amongst other things… Average stadium
construction costs are around $4000 - $6000 per seat at the moment, so a 15,000
seat stadium for the phoenix would cost $60M to $90M, and of course the sky is
the limit if you want to add all the bells and whistles.