Diminishing White South African footballers

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almost 10 years

Found some old photos from when I was younger a few days ago about 1995ish from memory of a friendly between Australia and South Africa anyways I noticed on the field that the South African team at this point actually had more white players on the field than it did black. Which got me thinking of all the recent times and the 2010 WC I have seen the SA team play where they have had none or just one that I know of Dean Furman who is captain apparently also. I had a look around and noticed that their have been in the past and are at present quite a few decent players whom never represented SA or just didn't really have much of a shot some include:

*Glen Salmon: Spent a decade in the Eredvisse but never got more than a few caps for Bafana
*George Koumantarakis: Spent half a decade with Basel and scored almost 50 goals but again never really got going for the NT
*Sean Dundee: Had a very long succesfull bundesliga career and choose not to represent SA at all
*Mark Gonzalez: Had a number of strong seasons in La Liga and went for Chile instead despite a good portion of his life being spent in SA
*Craig Johnston: A bit silly to put down as it was around appartaid and he only spent a few years of his life their but still some one who could have played for SA none the less.

Players of today:
*Andrew surman: Plays for newly promoted Bournemouth but isn't interested at all in playing for the NT.
*Ricardo Nunez: Playing in Poland atm not the best league but the overall SA team appears very weak atm so you would think he would have some value.
*Keaghan Jacobs: Was playing in the Scottish championship last season again a very weak league but really its not that far of the SA local comp and he had a massive season is eligible for Scotland. (Follow Livingston through my dad)
*Darren Keet: Playing in Belguim regularly but again doesn't seem to get much of a look in which appears strange.
*Sorm Roux: Choose the all whites over SA
*Declan Wynee: As above although eligibility is now in question

Any one know of any others who are eligible but appear to be heading in a different direction ? Just curious as to what the climate for a white trying to develop a football career in SA is? I get we have all these quotas for black for Cricket and Rugby which is fair enough but from a population of 5 million or 10% you would expect to see maybe 3 or 4 players regularly per squad. Very few appear to be reaching the high standards set by Hans Vonk, Mark Fish, Pierre Issa, Eric Tinkler, MAtthew Booth, Bradley Carnell, or any number of goal keepers ( I also found this interesting SA went almost a decade after appartaid without a black goal keeper it appears to be the only position where whites are represented as a portion of the population i.e 10% of the local league

Phoenix Academy
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almost 16 years

Are you aware of the political and social climate in South Africa?

Marquee
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Has SA football gone up in playing quality since the 2010 WC?

Phoenix Academy
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about 15 years

An interesting post this as it's something I've had a lot of debate on with South Africans over the years. I used to live in Cape Town and was a regular at league games around the country.

A lot of people have a perception that football in South Africa is a "black sport". It isn't. Back in the days or Apartheid, the white league flourished and crowds of over 20,000 were commonplace. A lot of famous players such as Kevin Keegan, John Byrne, Iain St. John etc all played in South Africa. Roy Hodgson also had a spell playing for Durban side, Addington.

Since the end of Apartheid, white players were very well represented in Bafana Bafana squads. Some of the country's finest players have been white. The first national side captain was Neil Tovey, these days a coach. Mark Fish is arguably the finest white player to be produced since the end of Apartheid and played in the English Premier League and Italy's Serie A for many years. There was also Hans Vonk who was a superb goalkeeper and played for Ajax (both Amsterdam and Cape Town) among other Dutch clubs. Eric Tinkler was a feisty midfielder who spent many years with Barnsley (English Premiership), Cagliari (Serie A) and Vitoria Setubal (Portuguese Liga NOS). There were also the likes of Bradley Carnell (Bundesliga) and Pierre Issa (Marseille, Larissa, Watford, Chelsea etc).

I had a conversation with an ex-Bafana Bafana defender about 3-4 years ago. His opinion was that the reason for the lack of white faces in South African footballer nowadays is due to the education system. This would make sense as many of the traditionally white schools still only play rugby, cricket, hockey etc. No sign of football. Therefore, many kids are reinforced with the stereotype that football is not a sport of them and only played by blacks and coloureds.

There are still some white South African players around. Marc Van Heerden (AmaZulu), Wayne Sandilands (Mamelodi Sundowns), Michael Morton, Keegan Ritchie & Bradley Grobler (Supersport United), Lorenzo Gordinho & Daniel Cardoso (Kaizer Chiefs) are just some of those still playing. There is also Darren Keet in Belgium, Vaughan Miller in Sweden and Ricardo Nunes in Poland. But the number is diminishing and it will take a bit of initiative to change the tide.

tradition and history
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almost 17 years

PaulSG wrote:

An interesting post this as it's something I've had a lot of debate on with South Africans over the years. I used to live in Cape Town and was a regular at league games around the country.

A lot of people have a perception that football in South Africa is a "black sport". It isn't. Back in the days or Apartheid, the white league flourished and crowds of over 20,000 were commonplace. A lot of famous players such as Kevin Keegan, John Byrne, Iain St. John etc all played in South Africa. Roy Hodgson also had a spell playing for Durban side, Addington.

Since the end of Apartheid, white players were very well represented in Bafana Bafana squads. Some of the country's finest players have been white. The first national side captain was Neil Tovey, these days a coach. Mark Fish is arguably the finest white player to be produced since the end of Apartheid and played in the English Premier League and Italy's Serie A for many years. There was also Hans Vonk who was a superb goalkeeper and played for Ajax (both Amsterdam and Cape Town) among other Dutch clubs. Eric Tinkler was a feisty midfielder who spent many years with Barnsley (English Premiership), Cagliari (Serie A) and Vitoria Setubal (Portuguese Liga NOS). There were also the likes of Bradley Carnell (Bundesliga) and Pierre Issa (Marseille, Larissa, Watford, Chelsea etc).

I had a conversation with an ex-Bafana Bafana defender about 3-4 years ago. His opinion was that the reason for the lack of white faces in South African footballer nowadays is due to the education system. This would make sense as many of the traditionally white schools still only play rugby, cricket, hockey etc. No sign of football. Therefore, many kids are reinforced with the stereotype that football is not a sport of them and only played by blacks and coloureds.

There are still some white South African players around. Marc Van Heerden (AmaZulu), Wayne Sandilands (Mamelodi Sundowns), Michael Morton, Keegan Ritchie & Bradley Grobler (Supersport United), Lorenzo Gordinho & Daniel Cardoso (Kaizer Chiefs) are just some of those still playing. There is also Darren Keet in Belgium, Vaughan Miller in Sweden and Ricardo Nunes in Poland. But the number is diminishing and it will take a bit of initiative to change the tide.

Also the fact that the whites make up less than 10% of the population.

Phoenix Academy
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almost 12 years

Interesting stuff. South African footballers, mostly white, have always been represented in the English league, stretching back for many years. Pre-war,  Liverpool had a couple and one, Gordon Hodgson played for England(i think). Post war, Charlton had quite a few in the 40s & 50s: Eddie Firmani, Stuart Leary John Hewie and several others. Blackpool had Bill Perry who played in " the Mathews final " and was an England international and in the 60s Leeds had the coloured South African Albert Johanneson. Also just remembered Colin Viljoen who played for Bobby Robson's Ipswich side; he played for England too. Mark Fish was the last White South African of note.

Marquee
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I saw this thread title and thought it was about how white South African footballers are getting shorter

Phoenix Academy
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about 15 years

Leggy wrote:

Also the fact that the whites make up less than 10% of the population.

A slight misnomer. Coloureds make up less than 9% of the population but they still have a larger presence in the SAFA and league setups than whites.

tradition and history
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PaulSG wrote:

Leggy wrote:

Also the fact that the whites make up less than 10% of the population.

A slight misnomer. Coloureds make up less than 9% of the population but they still have a larger presence in the SAFA and league setups than whites.

Yes, but football is more their game than rugby.

Marquee
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I saw this thread title and thought it was about how white South African footballers are getting shorter

Flat whites c.f long blacks

tradition and history
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almost 17 years

Ray Hicks wrote:

Interesting stuff. South African footballers, mostly white, have always been represented in the English league, stretching back for many years. Pre-war,  Liverpool had a couple and one, Gordon Hodgson played for England(i think). Post war, Charlton had quite a few in the 40s & 50s: Eddie Firmani, Stuart Leary John Hewie and several others. Blackpool had Bill Perry who played in " the Mathews final " and was an England international and in the 60s Leeds had the coloured South African Albert Johanneson. Also just remembered Colin Viljoen who played for Bobby Robson's Ipswich side; he played for England too. Mark Fish was the last White South African of note.

Add to that Roy Wegerle and Gary Bailey( although he was born in the UK he grew up in SA)

LG
Legend
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Roy Wegerle was one of the most talented footballers around in his day. He was brilliant for QPR.

Marquee
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If this lack of white players leads to Liam Jordan coming to us, more than happy for it to continue.

Phoenix Academy
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Liam is currently starring for the SA under 20 side, having scored two in two in their AFCON qualifiers. Seems to be a fixture in the side now, after being left out of the 17s to Chile( crazy selection). I am not sure he ever naturalised here though, as I recall reading that Keryns health had stopped them granting it to him at the time. Someone will know more about that, but with all the issues around exemptions, he might be lost to NZ football

Marquee
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almost 17 years

99% sure he's not eligible to play for NZ

Starting XI
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99% sure he's not eligible to play for NZ

Not this again.....

100% he has stated that he wants to play for South Africa (has played U17 & U20 for them)

Woof Woof
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over 16 years

Guys, you are replying to posts from four years ago.

Legend
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And over that time has now played senior competitive fixtures for Suid Afrika

https://us.soccerway.com/players/liam-jordan/399374/

One in a million
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el grapadura wrote:

Guys, you are replying to posts from four years ago.


Yes its a bit strange that some of these posts have appeared in the Active Posts section
Woof Woof
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el grapadura wrote:

Guys, you are replying to posts from four years ago.


Yes its a bit strange that some of these posts have appeared in the Active Posts section

There was a spam post that bumped the thread.

Marquee
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el grapadura wrote:

Guys, you are replying to posts from four years ago.

It's never too late to let someone else know that (a) they're wrong and (b) you know more than they do on a particular topic

Opinion Privileges revoked
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I was actually surprised to note that there are still some white people in the Zimbabwe cricket team
Legend
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Doloras
I was actually surprised to note that there are still some white people in the Zimbabwe cricket team


They're in a sad state these days unfortunately. Knocked out of the T20 World Cup qualifiers by Uganda.
Legend
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Doloras
I was actually surprised to note that there are still some white people in the Zimbabwe cricket team

They are generally their better players. Still about 34,000 white people living in Zimbawe, which sadly after Mugabe's death has continued it's corrupt despot pathway.

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