My take: Kaledzic is gone. He may or may not last out the season, but he's coming up against what Ernie Merrick found - a team culture which doesn't want to play, doesn't want to win, because it's only Wellington so who cares.
I disagree. Were you saying that after we demolished Perth last game? Team culture is an all pervasive thing, we would have noticed it in that game too.
We just had a very bad game, and I'm sure we will bounce back.
You think Kaledzic has given up on us already?
Not yet. Barring a miracle, he soon will, though, like Ernie did. Would YOU see any basis for continued hope?
My take: Kaledzic is gone. He may or may not last out the season, but he's coming up against what Ernie Merrick found - a team culture which doesn't want to play, doesn't want to win, because it's only Wellington so who cares.
Thats so sad coming from such a loyal supporter like yourself...
A fish stinks from the head ... maybe its your ownership group ... I have no idea but that is such a sad post.
Fairly normal post from Dalorus, as great a fan and as appreciated around here as she is.
I see no hope, or least no point, in having Finkler or Watson in the squad. The rest at least are something to work with, although if Durantes experience cannot steady the ship then its time for him to bid adieu as well.
Our stocks are relatively thin, and I cannot for the life of me imagine why McGlinchey wasn't starting forward of Paracki and Ridenton.
When he came on, he was awesome for 5 mins, before they took Durante off, then he was forced into too deep a role.
Dunno what Doyle has done, but we need him in there.
I thought Kalude-ic and Vidosic might as well have not been out there, total waste of space.
Even Parkhouse, when he came on, was way too far forward and barely got a touch. He was great the previous week and we need to change the formation accordingly, become a bit more 4-4-2 or 4-1-3-2 with Kalud/Krishna upfront, Parkhouse, McGlinchey ,Paracki and Ridenton in the midfield.
At the moment we have a whole player going to waste.
I was there and fully back your statement. Majority of the crowd left after the 4th goal. To be fair there was like 30 sec left of the game
Failing everywhere in the metrics of things...
You think Kaledzic has given up on us already?
Not yet. Barring a miracle, he soon will, though, like Ernie did. Would YOU see any basis for continued hope?
2 1/2 bad games. 1 1/2 good games. 3 reasonable games (though only one point).
We can hit mid-table with that form. Improve and we can hit top four.
Keegan Smith is an entirely new kind of keeper for us. When we play our style successfully, it is an entirely new style for the 'Nix. Paracki has been immense in every game, but this. We've scored plenty. There aren't going to be any more All Whites games for about 3 years. We've got a game in hand. I'm Phoenix 'til I die. Win and they will come...
You think Kaledzic has given up on us already?
Not yet. Barring a miracle, he soon will, though, like Ernie did. Would YOU see any basis for continued hope?
2 1/2 bad games. 1 1/2 good games. 3 reasonable games (though only one point).
We can hit mid-table with that form. Improve and we can hit top four.
Keegan Smith is an entirely new kind of keeper for us. When we play our style successfully, it is an entirely new style for the 'Nix. Paracki has been immense in every game, but this. We've scored plenty. There aren't going to be any more All Whites games for about 3 years. We've got a game in hand. I'm Phoenix 'til I die. Win and they will come...
The good news is that we are at home this week. The bad news is that we have lost every away game, and have been sharke for most of the time in our home games. I bet Victory are ramping up for 3 points now. I think the goalie choice is largely irrelevant for our immediate future.
Our home game against CCM had a look and feel of an away game about it.
Failing everywhere in the metrics of things...
Is the game 7pm Sunday?
My take: Kaledzic is gone. He may or may not last out the season, but he's coming up against what Ernie Merrick found - a team culture which doesn't want to play, doesn't want to win, because it's only Wellington so who cares.
That is complete bullshark
Change of players, change of coaches -Still results the same.
If team culture is the issue, then the constants are the management team/owners.
As per earlier podcasts this year the GM and one of the admin reps noted aim is top 6, we arent likely to be a top 2 team due to resources etc.
If being 6th is acceptable in a competition of only 10 teams and that culture is coming from the top, then what we are getting is what youd expect. You quite often dont get where you aim to, but occassionally you do. Aiming for 6th means well often land up around 7th to 10th.
If nothing less than say 3rd was acceptable to management/owners then youd have a different culture.
The culture comes from the top, and if the top is happy with top 6, nothing much will change.
Massively this
Games last night depress the shark out of me. Not only did we suck on the pitch but the crowd was tiny despite a good victory last home game, good conditions, and football in general beiing much more in the public consciousness after the Peru game. The club is a joke for a lot of people. If I wear Phoenix gear to work I am guaranteed to get multiple comments about how shark we are, and it's pretty much impossible to argue with.
I'm sick of excuses and explanations for shark like last night. I don't give a fudge if CCM are in good form. None of that shark will save this club. We need to get some momentum, wiin a string of games at home, and shake off this loser tag or attendances will keep dwindling and the FFA and/or WelNix will pull the plug. I don't think #savethenix will work a second time. And ultimately, I don't know if we could blame the public for not getting behind us when we serve up shark like last night. And I don't know if we could blame the FFA for saying we offer nothing is we're getting hidiings at home in front of 5000 people. And I don't think we could blame WelNix if they got sick of pissing their money away on this.
The fudgeing players need to take some responsibility and start playing like they give a shark week in and week out.
This sums up my feelings exactly. It's very hard to support this team seriously when it's been 3 years since we seriously put together a run of good form. Problem is our games are so meaningless because literally the only thing we can hope for is possibly sneaking into the top 6. There's nothing there for people to get truly excited by! Crowds aren't stupid, people aren't turning up because we're not a very good football team.
I think we made some good positive signings over the summer but really we still have quite a bit of surgery on the squad to go. Unfortunately we had to sign back-ups to replace back ups who weren't up to scratch. Highly paid players just aren't delivering and young guys which we had a lot of hope for aren't stepping up either. It's a bit of a toxic mix
My take: Kaledzic is gone. He may or may not last out the season, but he's coming up against what Ernie Merrick found - a team culture which doesn't want to play, doesn't want to win, because it's only Wellington so who cares.
My take: that is complete and utter pish.
Others have brought up the point of good results earlier in the season. They forget to take into account what I call Phoenix Syndrome: "good overseas players who get worse the longer they are with the club"*. Roly Bonevacia is of course the prime example of this (which reminds me, is he tearing it up at WSW or not? Haven't paid attention). I believe it's a matter of being gradually assimilated into the club culture.
People have a right to disagree with me, but I stand by my belief that there is a culture at the Phoenix of not giving a shark about results and performance, because:
a) as the only Kiwi team, there's a guaranteed audience anyway;
b) as the only Kiwi team, no-one expects us to do better.
c) as Anfony Hudson once said, there's a culture in Kiwi football of thinking that once you're a pro you've "made it" and you don't have anything to prove anymore.
I used to think this was a Wellington thing (i.e. Wellingtonians will defend the utmost levels of shark as long as it comes from Wellington), but I was wrong because the Warriors are succumbing to exactly the same illness. Why are the Breakers, in contrast, doing extremely well? I can't figure that out.
* Iffy and Greenacre being the exceptions to this otherwise solid rule.
My take: Kaledzic is gone. He may or may not last out the season, but he's coming up against what Ernie Merrick found - a team culture which doesn't want to play, doesn't want to win, because it's only Wellington so who cares.
That is complete bullshark
And yet you made two posts below this which pretty much confirm my argument?
For a bit of context, we won our last game before CCM and scored 5 goals. So much here is a complete overreaction, how about we wait and see how Kalezic and the team bounce back from his first bad loss before we write everyone off wholesale?
For a bit of context, we won our last game before CCM and scored 5 goals. So much here is a complete overreaction, how about we wait and see how Kalezic and the team bounce back from his first bad loss before we write everyone off wholesale?
Others have brought up the point of good results earlier in the season. They forget to take into account what I call Phoenix Syndrome: "good overseas players who get worse the longer they are with the club"*. Roly Bonevacia is of course the prime example of this (which reminds me, is he tearing it up at WSW or not? Haven't paid attention). I believe it's a matter of being gradually assimilated into the club culture.
People have a right to disagree with me, but I stand by my belief that there is a culture at the Phoenix of not giving a shark about results and performance, because:
a) as the only Kiwi team, there's a guaranteed audience anyway;
b) as the only Kiwi team, no-one expects us to do better.
c) as Anfony Hudson once said, there's a culture in Kiwi football of thinking that once you're a pro you've "made it" and you don't have anything to prove anymore.
I used to think this was a Wellington thing (i.e. Wellingtonians will defend the utmost levels of shark as long as it comes from Wellington), but I was wrong because the Warriors are succumbing to exactly the same illness. Why are the Breakers, in contrast, doing extremely well? I can't figure that out.
* Iffy and Greenacre being the exceptions to this otherwise solid rule.
Roly Bonevacia was signed as defensive cover behind Albert Riera he was a fringe Eredivisie player and obviously talented but was mainly signed because he was available and had pedigree (which is typical of Ernie).
Ernie converted him to an AM player and his career actually took off. I think it's fair to say he found form at the Phoenix rather than lost it.
There are plenty of exceptions to what you said:
* Krishna
* Riera
* Ifill
* Greenacre
etc
Even Bonevacia performed very well for the nix, add to that Rossi, Paracki, etc.
Plenty of Australians have come here and performed well or better than well:
* Burns
* McKain
* Vukovic
* Vidosich (so far)
etc.
The players that backup what you said were all older and at the end of their careers, so it's more of a fact that the Phoenix were recruiting based on reputation rather than potential rather than recruiting players at their prime and destroying their careers.
My take: Kaledzic is gone. He may or may not last out the season, but he's coming up against what Ernie Merrick found - a team culture which doesn't want to play, doesn't want to win, because it's only Wellington so who cares.
That is complete bullshark
And yet you made two posts below this which pretty much confirm my argument?
Saying the club has a culture problem is completely different to saying the coach is ready to quit after 7 games and the players don't want to play or win - you've provided no evidence other than bad results, which could equally be explained by not having good players. So I'm respectfully going to file that opinion on the BS pile..
For a bit of context, we won our last game before CCM and scored 5 goals. So much here is a complete overreaction, how about we wait and see how Kalezic and the team bounce back from his first bad loss before we write everyone off wholesale?
From watching that performance I can't help but think that the reason we struggled so much was due to a lack of movement in midfield. Any time the CBs or Italiano had the ball there was no movement and CCM were easily able to mark them out of the game. Add the fact that all of the ball movement was at a snails pace and the CCM midfield must have thought Christmas had come early, and I think it is largely on Dura and Italiano.
That, for me, is the first discouraging performance this year. I'm not ready to throw in the towel and burn my membership just yet.
Saying the club has a culture problem is completely different to saying the coach is ready to quit after 7 games
If I were in his position, and I had seen what Ernie Merrick had to put up with, I would realise I was in a no-win situation and be ready to quit, or at least to just quietly run out my contract while not taking my job seriously any more.
Seriously, what possible excuse can you have for a 3-goal home loss to the damned Salties apart from just not caring enough?
What did Merick have to put up with? He chose and managed the squad, he created whatever culture there was.
What did Merick have to put up with? He chose and managed the squad, he created whatever culture there was.
I thought it was clearly on the record that Merrick quit because he could no longer get the players to carry out his tactics.
Saying the club has a culture problem is completely different to saying the coach is ready to quit after 7 games
If I were in his position, and I had seen what Ernie Merrick had to put up with, I would realise I was in a no-win situation and be ready to quit, or at least to just quietly run out my contract while not taking my job seriously any more.
Seriously, what possible excuse can you have for a 3-goal home loss to the damned Salties apart from just not caring enough?
You mean the damned salties that beat Syd FC the other week? CCM or the Jets are no longer the worst teams in the league. We are 4 points off 6th with a game in hand but the coach is already sending his CV to other clubs?
Remember what happened to Adelaide in 15/16? Bottom of the table until round 9 then went on to finish 1st and win the GF.
People need to calm down.
Saying the club has a culture problem is completely different to saying the coach is ready to quit after 7 games
If I were in his position, and I had seen what Ernie Merrick had to put up with, I would realise I was in a no-win situation and be ready to quit, or at least to just quietly run out my contract while not taking my job seriously any more.
Seriously, what possible excuse can you have for a 3-goal home loss to the damned Salties apart from just not caring enough?
If he had seen, as you imply, what Ernie had to put up with, then why did he travel halfway round the World to take the job in the first place? I'm sure that Wellington Phoenix isn't a glamorous enough drawcard to have Coaches dropping everything to come here just to suffer the agonies of coaching us.
Despite being good value as a cliche, in my 27 coaching career (admittedly not at A League level) I've never actually seen 'caring enough' win that many matches, or prevent that many defeats. In that time I've never met many players who didn't care if their team won or lost either. The Nix were outplayed and outcoached on Saturday. CCM's movement on and off the ball was quicker and considerably better than ours. They've looked decent in patches this season, and on Saturday the patch lasted 90 minutes
There have been many positive signs up until Saturday's game. Are we now to believe that the season is over, that the players and the Coach don't care based on one bad game? Seriously?
Fudgeen horrible! That is all
Yes it was bad game, but a lot of it will be fixable. Looking forward to a cracking game on Sunday.
Others have brought up the point of good results earlier in the season. They forget to take into account what I call Phoenix Syndrome: "good overseas players who get worse the longer they are with the club"*. Roly Bonevacia is of course the prime example of this (which reminds me, is he tearing it up at WSW or not? Haven't paid attention). I believe it's a matter of being gradually assimilated into the club culture.
People have a right to disagree with me, but I stand by my belief that there is a culture at the Phoenix of not giving a shark about results and performance, because:
a) as the only Kiwi team, there's a guaranteed audience anyway;
b) as the only Kiwi team, no-one expects us to do better.
c) as Anfony Hudson once said, there's a culture in Kiwi football of thinking that once you're a pro you've "made it" and you don't have anything to prove anymore.
I used to think this was a Wellington thing (i.e. Wellingtonians will defend the utmost levels of shark as long as it comes from Wellington), but I was wrong because the Warriors are succumbing to exactly the same illness. Why are the Breakers, in contrast, doing extremely well? I can't figure that out.
* Iffy and Greenacre being the exceptions to this otherwise solid rule.
What did Merick have to put up with? He chose and managed the squad, he created whatever culture there was.
I thought it was clearly on the record that Merrick quit because he could no longer get the players to carry out his tactics.
I wish they had boycotted his shark tactics and we might have won some games
What did Merick have to put up with? He chose and managed the squad, he created whatever culture there was.
I thought it was clearly on the record that Merrick quit because he could no longer get the players to carry out his tactics.
Yeah, but they were his players. He picked them.
Not all of them, obviously. Are the senior voices in the room part of the problem?
This will be a cracker.Huge 3 points needed for a table boost & general pick me up.
COYN
Fudge.
Despite being good value as a cliche, in my 27 coaching career (admittedly not at A League level) I've never actually seen 'caring enough' win that many matches, or prevent that many defeats.
I have, in my playing career. I've played on too many teams where the players thought they'd done their job just by turning up, who were not only not interested in making any real effort on the field, but in some cases thought it was actually funnier not to make an effort (because we're all going to go and have a beer afterwards anyway, which is what it's all about, right?) I've been in teams where the culture actively militated against players who were making an effort/taking it seriously, as being show-offs who were making everyone else look bad.
You wouldn't expect to see that at professional level but that's what I am seeing, and it's my preferred explanation for "Phoenix Syndrome". Why did Bonevacia's performance degrade? What is happening to Rossi? My answer is "dragged down to the existing level". It may be an optical illusion, but I'm not hearing arguments against it at the moment, just people telling me I'm dumb and wrong and should go away because I'm seeing it.
There's been plenty of comments giving coherent arguments against what you are claiming doloras.
Others have brought up the point of good results earlier in the season. They forget to take into account what I call Phoenix Syndrome: "good overseas players who get worse the longer they are with the club"*. Roly Bonevacia is of course the prime example of this (which reminds me, is he tearing it up at WSW or not? Haven't paid attention). I believe it's a matter of being gradually assimilated into the club culture.
People have a right to disagree with me, but I stand by my belief that there is a culture at the Phoenix of not giving a shark about results and performance, because:
a) as the only Kiwi team, there's a guaranteed audience anyway;
b) as the only Kiwi team, no-one expects us to do better.
c) as Anfony Hudson once said, there's a culture in Kiwi football of thinking that once you're a pro you've "made it" and you don't have anything to prove anymore.
I used to think this was a Wellington thing (i.e. Wellingtonians will defend the utmost levels of shark as long as it comes from Wellington), but I was wrong because the Warriors are succumbing to exactly the same illness. Why are the Breakers, in contrast, doing extremely well? I can't figure that out.
* Iffy and Greenacre being the exceptions to this otherwise solid rule.
Roly Bonevacia was signed as defensive cover behind Albert Riera he was a fringe Eredivisie player and obviously talented but was mainly signed because he was available and had pedigree (which is typical of Ernie).
Ernie converted him to an AM player and his career actually took off. I think it's fair to say he found form at the Phoenix rather than lost it.
There are plenty of exceptions to what you said:
* Krishna
* Riera
* Ifill
* Greenacre
etc
Even Bonevacia performed very well for the nix, add to that Rossi, Paracki, etc.
Plenty of Australians have come here and performed well or better than well:
* Burns
* McKain
* Vukovic
* Vidosich (so far)
etc.
The players that backup what you said were all older and at the end of their careers, so it's more of a fact that the Phoenix were recruiting based on reputation rather than potential rather than recruiting players at their prime and destroying their careers.
This is a decent one.
Game sucked. Was a bad night out but ill still be there this sunday cheering the lads on hoping they can bounce back.
Despite being good value as a cliche, in my 27 coaching career (admittedly not at A League level) I've never actually seen 'caring enough' win that many matches, or prevent that many defeats.
I have, in my playing career. I've played on too many teams where the players thought they'd done their job just by turning up, who were not only not interested in making any real effort on the field, but in some cases thought it was actually funnier not to make an effort (because we're all going to go and have a beer afterwards anyway, which is what it's all about, right?) I've been in teams where the culture actively militated against players who were making an effort/taking it seriously, as being show-offs who were making everyone else look bad.
You wouldn't expect to see that at professional level but that's what I am seeing, and it's my preferred explanation for "Phoenix Syndrome". Why did Bonevacia's performance degrade? What is happening to Rossi? My answer is "dragged down to the existing level". It may be an optical illusion, but I'm not hearing arguments against it at the moment, just people telling me I'm dumb and wrong and should go away because I'm seeing it.
Interesting opinion and I'm sure it goes on. Do you have any evidence that this is the case?
Anyone got a good cure for summer flu/cold? My throat is bad.
