"Devil's advocate" indeed. It was already in the media. A Petone supporter was on the phone to Stuff before the final whistle blew. Those supporters knew very well exactly who had said what to whom, you could hear them saying "number 6 has to go" on the video. There was no avoiding a public spat.
Let me guess, you, safely perched behind your computer screen posting as an anonymous username, have never said anything remotely controversial when you were a teenager.
Let alone, in the heat of the moment in a very competitive environment.
Those in glass towers.
1) Most people here who care (a minority) know who I am, there aren't that many opinionated women goalkeepers in Auckland. 2) You don't know me, you don't know what I did or what I didn't do as a teenager, so let me fill you in: I did worse in my day than calling someone a homo or whatever Finn Conchie said. And you know what? I faced consequences for my bad behaviour, and as a result cleaned my act up to the best that I could. I am glad that Finn is facing consequences - public consequences - and I hope he won't let this derail his football career, but instead come back stronger and better.
What consequences did you face, exactly?
When someone Google's your name, is there a permanent record on the internet tarnishing your name, forever (i.e. a Stuff, or news, article)?
Were your employment prospects affected as a result of what you said? For the rest of your life?
I don't know Finn Conchie, but stand by my view that this should have been dealt with privately.
It's extremely weird to me that a bunch of adults are taking the moral high ground, when they almost all said things way worse at some point in their lives, and yet never had to live with those consequences, for the rest of their lives (i.e. a permanent news record on the internet stating that you are an 'x, y, z').
"Devil's advocate" indeed. It was already in the media. A Petone supporter was on the phone to Stuff before the final whistle blew. Those supporters knew very well exactly who had said what to whom, you could hear them saying "number 6 has to go" on the video. There was no avoiding a public spat.
Let me guess, you, safely perched behind your computer screen posting as an anonymous username, have never said anything remotely controversial when you were a teenager.
Let alone, in the heat of the moment in a very competitive environment.
Those in glass towers.
1) Most people here who care (a minority) know who I am, there aren't that many opinionated women goalkeepers in Auckland. 2) You don't know me, you don't know what I did or what I didn't do as a teenager, so let me fill you in: I did worse in my day than calling someone a homo or whatever Finn Conchie said. And you know what? I faced consequences for my bad behaviour, and as a result cleaned my act up to the best that I could. I am glad that Finn is facing consequences - public consequences - and I hope he won't let this derail his football career, but instead come back stronger and better.
What consequences did you face, exactly?
When someone Google's your name, is there a permanent record on the internet tarnishing your name, forever (i.e. a Stuff, or news, article)?
Were your employment prospects affected as a result of what you said? For the rest of your life?
I don't know Finn Conchie, but stand by my view that this should have been dealt with privately.
It's extremely weird to me that a bunch of adults are taking the moral high ground, when they almost all said things way worse at some point in their lives, and yet never had to live with those consequences, for the rest of their lives (i.e. a permanent news record on the internet stating that you are an 'x, y, z').
Yep, I'd assume if this was said on the training pitch or behind a closed door friendly then the club would deal with it internally, but this was done publicly, a complaint was raised, and it was referred to capital football for disciplinary action.
If young people do things in public then they get called up on it just as much as anyone else. I think most people on here have benefited from living a pretty anonymous lives, but plenty of people have had past misdeeds catch up with them.
Once again I don't know what the Phoenix could have done differently. They've publicly supported the player.
Dear God in Heaven: Fin Conchie used a homophobic slur in a game of football and the *worst* that will possibly happen to him is that he won't get to play football for the rest of the season. That is *not* ruining his entire life - if he straightens up it won't even ruin his football career. One might look at the career of Scott Kuggelijn to understand that you can do way worse than calling someone a homo and still make it in sport in this country.
Jesus wept, heaven forfend, a young talented Pakeha man might, in 20 years, have the PERMANENT STAIN on his record that someone will Google him and find out "hang on, it says here you once got a ban from football for calling someone a homo! Well, in that case we withdraw your nomination as a High Court Justice, and instead sentence you to a lifetime of horror on Monster Island!!" Consequences do not work that way!
(... at least, if you're a young man from a "promising" background. Then the system bends over backwards to forgive and forget. If you're from the background/part of town where you're not considered to have "career prospects" of any significance, they can hand out hard time to teenagers without a second thought.)
Dear God in Heaven: Fin Conchie used a homophobic slur in a game of football and the *worst* that will possibly happen to him is that he won't get to play football for the rest of the season. That is *not* ruining his entire life - if he straightens up it won't even ruin his football career. One might look at the career of Scott Kuggelijn to understand that you can do way worse than calling someone a homo and still make it in sport in this country.
Jesus wept, heaven forfend, a young talented Pakeha man might, in 20 years, have the PERMANENT STAIN on his record that someone will Google him and find out "hang on, it says here you once got a ban from football for calling someone a homo! Well, in that case we withdraw your nomination as a High Court Justice, and instead sentence you to a lifetime of horror on Monster Island!!" Consequences do not work that way!
(... at least, if you're a young man from a "promising" background. Then the system bends over backwards to forgive and forget. If you're from the background/part of town where you're not considered to have "career prospects" of any significance, they can hand out hard time to teenagers without a second thought.)
LOL good call. You can even do worse than Kuggelijn though and no one will bat an eye. Just be an All Black and you can beat the ever loving shark out of some guy in a bar or your Mrs. The court will give you a slap on the wrist and the country will be happy to see you play again as long as you're playing well!
Had to be done :( Let's hope he learns and comes back stronger.
I'll never forget about 10 years ago, one of the wilder members of my team suggested intimidating the young ref by calling him a "f****t". When I objected on behalf of the queer members of our team, she responded by saying "oh, I didn't mean it in a *gay* way". ???
Don't worry 'Nix fans singing 'she fell over' but not in a sexist way.
As an aside, a friend of mine (not a 'Nix regular) recently found out that fans are shouting 'sea gull' and pointing at a bird/plane and not 'sieg heil' while doing the salute.
Since 2007 it has always been about the birds. Melbourne clubs playing at AAMI stadium would have a field day with that chant. More Seagulls than fans sometimes.
Good grief. Lots of bollocks being bandied about here. That’s the problem with this sort of thing. Trial by media with no facts and no recourse. Not sure most people would know a ‘homophobic slur’ if they fell over one.
Good grief. Lots of bollocks being bandied about here. That’s the problem with this sort of thing. Trial by media with no facts and no recourse. Not sure most people would know a ‘homophobic slur’ if they fell over one.
Some of us here are actually gay, and have heard a few homophobic slurs in our time
I’m not so sure. Calling someone queer isn’t a slur; it is neither illegal nor frowned upon by society these days. It’s no worse than calling someone straight.
Heard any heterophobic slurs? Does “I hear your girlfriend likes it doggy style” count? Or is that just sledging? What about asking a girl “does your boyfriend tea bag you”? Maybe not nice, but the sort of things footballers, cricketers basketballers….have done for generations to get in their heads and put them off their game.
Do these suddenly become homophobic slurs if you say the first to a girl or the second to a guy? Does it make a difference whether the person you say it to is straight or gay? Maybe you need to establish a person’s orientation before you sledge them.
The goalposts keep moving. If there’s things you can’t say on a field, make a list so everyone knows. Or at least say what was said so the next guy doesn’t say the same. As it stands this kid is being tried by the proverbial lynch mob.
I’m not so sure. Calling someone queer isn’t a slur; it is neither illegal nor frowned upon by society these days. It’s no worse than calling someone straight.
Heard any heterophobic slurs? Does “I hear your girlfriend likes it doggy style” count? Or is that just sledging? What about asking a girl “does your boyfriend tea bag you”? Maybe not nice, but the sort of things footballers, cricketers basketballers….have done for generations to get in their heads and put them off their game.
Do these suddenly become homophobic slurs if you say the first to a girl or the second to a guy? Does it make a difference whether the person you say it to is straight or gay? Maybe you need to establish a person’s orientation before you sledge them.
The goalposts keep moving. If there’s things you can’t say on a field, make a list so everyone knows. Or at least say what was said so the next guy doesn’t say the same. As it stands this kid is being tried by the proverbial lynch mob.
Genuine question: do we know exactly what was said? Because for the other team to react in the way they did I'd be willing to bet it was something major.
And if it was something major, you shouldn't try to downplay it. That's dumb and is exactly what we've spent the last few weeks slagging off the Qataris for.
I’m not so sure. Calling someone queer isn’t a slur; it is neither illegal nor frowned upon by society these days. It’s no worse than calling someone straight.
Heard any heterophobic slurs? Does “I hear your girlfriend likes it doggy style” count? Or is that just sledging? What about asking a girl “does your boyfriend tea bag you”? Maybe not nice, but the sort of things footballers, cricketers basketballers….have done for generations to get in their heads and put them off their game.
Do these suddenly become homophobic slurs if you say the first to a girl or the second to a guy? Does it make a difference whether the person you say it to is straight or gay? Maybe you need to establish a person’s orientation before you sledge them.
The goalposts keep moving. If there’s things you can’t say on a field, make a list so everyone knows. Or at least say what was said so the next guy doesn’t say the same. As it stands this kid is being tried by the proverbial lynch mob.
Genuine question: do we know exactly what was said? Because for the other team to react in the way they did I'd be willing to bet it was something major.
And if it was something major, you shouldn't try to downplay it. That's dumb and is exactly what we've spent the last few weeks slagging off the Qataris for.
Again: not sure what was said.
Yes. But it has not been made public by those that should make it public, so “we”, no
"Calling someone queer isn’t a slur; it is neither illegal nor frowned upon by society these days. It’s no worse than calling someone straight."
Context, bozo. If an opponent yells at me that I'm an "angry lesbian" on the field, that's a homophobic slur. Even though I *am* an angry lesbian.
This is amazingly similar to the guy on the other field who were adamant that because people with dark skin call each other the N-word jocularly, then it can't possibly be a racial slur.
The content has never been an issue. The player admitted it was inappropriate, he has been given a reasonable punishment and he will hopefully keep training and be a first team player in no time.
Edit: Most importantly the player hasn't been arguing it that I can see. He knew he messed up, he fessed up, and that means he has the capability to grow. He's already far ahead of too many adults.
"Calling someone queer isn’t a slur; it is neither illegal nor frowned upon by society these days. It’s no worse than calling someone straight."
Context, bozo. If an opponent yells at me that I'm an "angry lesbian" on the field, that's a homophobic slur. Even though I *am* an angry lesbian.
This is amazingly similar to the guy on the other field who were adamant that because people with dark skin call each other the N-word jocularly, then it can't possibly be a racial slur.
Exactly my point. You self identify as an angry lesbian, but nobody can call you that? And yet you feel entitled to call other people names? You don’t see the hypocrisy in that?
An angry lesbian is just an angry personClubOranje
Doloras
"Calling someone queer isn’t a slur; it is neither illegal nor frowned upon by society these days. It’s no worse than calling someone straight."
Context, bozo. If an opponent yells at me that I'm an "angry lesbian" on the field, that's a homophobic slur. Even though I *am* an angry lesbian.
This is amazingly similar to the guy on the other field who were adamant that because people with dark skin call each other the N-word jocularly, then it can't possibly be a racial slur.
Exactly my point. You self identify as an angry lesbian, but nobody can call you that? And yet you feel entitled to call other people names? You don’t see the hypocrisy in that?
"Calling someone queer isn’t a slur; it is neither illegal nor frowned upon by society these days. It’s no worse than calling someone straight."
Context, bozo. If an opponent yells at me that I'm an "angry lesbian" on the field, that's a homophobic slur. Even though I *am* an angry lesbian.
This is amazingly similar to the guy on the other field who were adamant that because people with dark skin call each other the N-word jocularly, then it can't possibly be a racial slur.
Exactly my point. You self identify as an angry lesbian, but nobody can call you that? And yet you feel entitled to call other people names? You don’t see the hypocrisy in that?
Tone deaf response mate.
It's really all about context and intent with most words which are not necessarily offensive by nature. If I was going to say something like ''you fudgeing stupid queer/lesbian'' in an angry tone on a sports field I think you can easily say that is insensitive and very offensive. You're using the way someone was born to belittle them so it can obviously be offensive here.
If the context was different and I was saying jokingly ''you stupid queer/lesbian'' to a friend - that may not or should not be taken as being offensive depending on your relationship with that person.
With most things - language included things are not black and white. Language is also constantly evolving, things are becoming offensive which were once not. Maybe 50 to 100 years down the line 'queer' might be considered a slur, who knows? Right now if you single someone out because of the way they were born, even if you're using words not generally considered offensive, you can be offensive (obviously).
Sorry, forgot it was a football forum. I’ll save such discussion for grown-up groups in future.
Completely missing the point buddy. The player who said it admits it's inappropriate.
Where has the discussion about what was said and if it was inappropriate come from?
I don't know what you do or don't know about the situation but the person who said it and he person it was said to both agree it was inappropriate.
Why you're trying to pull the discussion to be about what defines inappropriate in society is utterly pointless. It might make sense if the player was arguing they did nothing wrong, but he said what he did was wrong and everyone involved is moving on.
Dear God in Heaven: Fin Conchie used a homophobic slur in a game of football and the *worst* that will possibly happen to him is that he won't get to play football for the rest of the season. That is *not* ruining his entire life - if he straightens up it won't even ruin his football career. One might look at the career of Scott Kuggelijn to understand that you can do way worse than calling someone a homo and still make it in sport in this country.
Jesus wept, heaven forfend, a young talented Pakeha man might, in 20 years, have the PERMANENT STAIN on his record that someone will Google him and find out "hang on, it says here you once got a ban from football for calling someone a homo! Well, in that case we withdraw your nomination as a High Court Justice, and instead sentence you to a lifetime of horror on Monster Island!!" Consequences do not work that way!
(... at least, if you're a young man from a "promising" background. Then the system bends over backwards to forgive and forget. If you're from the background/part of town where you're not considered to have "career prospects" of any significance, they can hand out hard time to teenagers without a second thought.)
Dear God in Heaven: Fin Conchie used a homophobic slur in a game of football and the *worst* that will possibly happen to him is that he won't get to play football for the rest of the season. That is *not* ruining his entire life - if he straightens up it won't even ruin his football career. One might look at the career of Scott Kuggelijn to understand that you can do way worse than calling someone a homo and still make it in sport in this country.
Jesus wept, heaven forfend, a young talented Pakeha man might, in 20 years, have the PERMANENT STAIN on his record that someone will Google him and find out "hang on, it says here you once got a ban from football for calling someone a homo! Well, in that case we withdraw your nomination as a High Court Justice, and instead sentence you to a lifetime of horror on Monster Island!!" Consequences do not work that way!
(... at least, if you're a young man from a "promising" background. Then the system bends over backwards to forgive and forget. If you're from the background/part of town where you're not considered to have "career prospects" of any significance, they can hand out hard time to teenagers without a second thought.)
"If you are a young man from a promising background. The the system bends over backwards to forgive and forget".
I have just google Fin Conchie, and almost the entire whole first page is articles labelling him as an 'x, y, z'.
Sure, this may not matter in the long-run if he makes it as a professional footballer. But, if you want to go into the corporate world (or, hell, even the public sector), this kind of thing can, and in most cases will, ruin your entire career.
Good luck even getting an interview at a corporation if these types of results show up on google when your name is searched. Your C.V. will be binned instantly.
That is my point.
Destroying a teenager's life for something that everyone on this forum probably said at a similar age is morally questionable to me.
The moral high-grounding is also strange.
Everyone makes mistakes, especially at a young age.
What is this about? 'In China the Wellington Phoenix will hold discussion with potential partners regarding a proposed Wellington-based football academy'
I just noticed the ramblings above Feverish's post, and will just point out that Finn Conchie (deservedly) got a professional contract. So much for the Life Ruining Consequences.
What is this about? 'In China the Wellington Phoenix will hold discussion with potential partners regarding a proposed Wellington-based football academy'
What is this about? 'In China the Wellington Phoenix will hold discussion with potential partners regarding a proposed Wellington-based football academy'
What is this about? 'In China the Wellington Phoenix will hold discussion with potential partners regarding a proposed Wellington-based football academy'
