A WPX youth side in the Aussie league would certainly be a big stride forward. And who knows it might happen in time.
In the mean time the NZFC option is a good one for all concerned. I honestly can't fathom why anyone would be against it.
Huawei Wellington United Phoenix Academy Football School of Excellence - WeeNix
You just come across as drunk and angry, rather than reasoned and sane. One post for every thought that pops into your head gives that impression.
Im inside ...As far as i can figure....
Some sort of room...
Some sort of room...
Pigs are flying overhead , the aussies are about to treat you as a franchise not a cash cow...
after that it all fades ...
after that it all fades ...
If this is an attempt at a wind up it's not a very good one.
If they're treating us as a cash cow then that's life I guess. We participate on those terms. I'm enjoying myself, and so are plenty of others, including the club owner I suppose seeing as he keeps indicating his intention to continue.
I know it's tough being the little brother, but we really do care about you even if you do feel like we bully you and take all the good jellybeans.
You just come across as drunk and angry, rather than reasoned and sane. One post for every thought that pops into your head gives that impression.
A WPX youth side in the Aussie league would certainly be a big stride forward. And who knows it might happen in time.
In the mean time the NZFC option is a good one for all concerned. I honestly can't fathom why anyone would be against it.
Because itd make a farcile { ? } situation even worse , would that be one reason ?
Because youve chosen your league , now play in it !!
as much as i shouldnt be feeding you. you say itd make it worse without mentioning how exactly?
I'm enjoying myself, and so are 14000 others
Fixed.
Worse than 175 , youll have to figure that out....
Oh I get it. It's because you guys don't want another major team competing in your league.
Ha, I can't believe I didn't figure it out earlier.
You guys like being the big man on campus in the NZFC. You'd rather the Nix were defunct so that you could be the big man on campus in New Zealand full stop. That must niggle you something chronic.
Well you'll just have to eat it for the good of the game I'm afraid. The fact is that having the Nix in the NZFC will make the NZFC popular in a way your club simply cannot manage. NZF know this, and so does your own club Chairman believe it or not.
It will also make the NZFC stronger and more competitive (you'd expect) and more competition can only raise the playing standards.
So, in summary, greater profile, more interest, better standard, more coverage, bigger crowds.
It's a no brainer. Except of course if you're used to being top dog and you're threatened by it. Then it's terrifying I'd imagine. But you'll be okay.
I counted the 175, so it's not hard to figure out.
What the... in the 30mins it took me to get home and get back into it, unlolz has shat everywhere.
Way to kill a thread man. Nice one
Way to kill a thread man. Nice one
1, When the Phoenix joined the league there was no national youth league, so there was no contract stating it anyway.
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
HN, Talk of a National Youth League with the A-League clubs was always in the pipeline wen the senior A-League was formed. There was a National Youth League with the NSL clubs back in the day, so a similar set up under the A-League was always on the cards.
Issue is level of assistance that FFA want to provide NZ football. Development of NZ players really is a NZ responsibility. Where they play professionally (A-League or otherwise is individual player's choice once they turn (say) 18.
Women's A-League was always on the cards too. There was a mini-comp back in the day for the women as well, but with the rebuild of the game here, they wanted to ensure the A-League was up and running before fixing up the Youth and Women's League scenario.
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">
1, When the Phoenix joined the league there was no national youth league, so there was no contract stating it anyway.
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
That's a good point HN. The youth league didn't exist when the Phoenix first signed up, so why has the FFA blocked them participating when the conditions were set up after the Nix were a going concern and thus up for negotiation? It can't be financial because the FFA is going to make a bundle from the bumper home crowd (s) in the Phoenix's playoff game (s) and it can't be logistical. It must be political - ie stifle the development of NZ development players (read future All Whites). Also it's a good point that NZFC teams won't want to risk their best players in a meaningless game against the Phoenix reserves if a youth/reserve team is put in the NZFC. Why would City do that when it already has a full NZFC/O League programme?
The only solution is a level playing field for the Nix in Australia - a youth/reserve side and full participation in the Asian competition if successful. Then the best young NZ talent will get a chance to shine in a professional league and have a pathway on merit and Terry has a chance to make some money back. I'll have no gripes then!!! Can you imagine it?
1, When the Phoenix joined the league there was no national youth league, so there was no contract stating it anyway.
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
That's a good point HN. The youth league didn't exist when the Phoenix first signed up, so why has the FFA blocked them participating when the conditions were set up after the Nix were a going concern and thus up for negotiation? It can't be financial because the FFA is going to make a bundle from the bumper home crowd (s) in the Phoenix's playoff game (s) and it can't be logistical. It must be political - ie stifle the development of NZ development players (read future All Whites). Also it's a good point that NZFC teams won't want to risk their best players in a meaningless game against the Phoenix reserves if a youth/reserve team is put in the NZFC. Why would City do that when it already has a full NZFC/O League programme?
The only solution is a level playing field for the Nix in Australia - a youth/reserve side and full participation in the Asian competition if successful. Then the best young NZ talent will get a chance to shine in a professional league and have a pathway on merit and Terry has a chance to make some money back. I'll have no gripes then!!! Can you imagine it?
Agree with all of it except for this:
1. It's not the "only solution" it's the IDEAL solution. If we can't get there then the NZFC solution is a solution that also has a raft of benefits for everyone.
2. It's not the FFA that didn't want the Nix in the Youth A-League it's the Federal Government that funded it in part or in whole. One of the conditions attached to that money was that the league include the AIS (and while it wasn't spoken specifically I don't think the implication was that the Federal Government did not want to be seen to be funding Kiwis).
Certainly though the ideal (and ultimate goal) must be to get the Nix to be full participating members of the A League in all respects.
1, When the Phoenix joined the league there was no national youth league, so there was no contract stating it anyway.
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
That's a good point HN. The youth league didn't exist when the Phoenix first signed up, so why has the FFA blocked them participating when the conditions were set up after the Nix were a going concern and thus up for negotiation? It can't be financial because the FFA is going to make a bundle from the bumper home crowd (s) in the Phoenix's playoff game (s) and it can't be logistical. It must be political - ie stifle the development of NZ development players (read future All Whites).
Also it's a good point that NZFC teams won't want to risk their best players in a meaningless game against the Phoenix reserves if a youth/reserve team is put in the NZFC. Why would City do that when it already has a full NZFC/O League programme?
The only solution is a level playing field for the Nix in Australia - a youth/reserve side and full participation in the Asian competition if successful. Then the best young NZ talent will get a chance to shine in a professional league and have a pathway on merit and Terry has a chance to make some money back. I'll have no gripes then!!! Can you imagine it?
It's not Australia 'stifling' NZ growth, more a 'disinterest' and a 'non-need'. Also, if Australia assist NZ football any more than current levels the other AFC nations will crack it, so a political level comes into it.
I know you guys want to grow NZ football, but it's really an NZ matter to do this. Like I said, Australia is a bind too over this, because whilst we align ourselves with NZ in many ways, we can't be seen to be favouring you guys too much in terms of soccer development.
For cricket, rugby and all that, OK, the countries can working together, but football/soccer is global, so you have to think outside the local area as such.
Most Aussies wouldn't know NZFC teams, or care for its development. Fact.
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">
diego you make less sense than uncloz and are completely muddying the waters here
diego you make less sense than uncloz and are completely muddying the waters here
I will add my 2-bob though if I feel it's needed. Don't turn into another aikenmike on me.
Also, you boys are discussing ways to enter an Australian system, so I have a right to comment.
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">diego's son2010-02-15 16:55:58
diego you make less sense than uncloz and are completely muddying the waters here
I will add my 2-bob though if I feel it's needed. Don't turn into another aikenmike on me.
Also, you boys are discussing ways to enter an Australian system, so I have a right to comment.
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">
No, we're discussing the whys and wherefores of the Phoenix entering a team in the NZFC.
Stick to the topic or face the banstick.
diego you make less sense than uncloz and are completely muddying the waters here
I will add my 2-bob though if I feel it's needed. Don't turn into another aikenmike on me.
Also, you boys are discussing ways to enter an Australian system, so I have a right to comment.
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">
No, we're discussing the whys and wherefores of the Phoenix entering a team in the NZFC.
Stick to the topic or face the banstick.
What, so responding to Hard News comments was wrong. Come on mate......
But for the purposes of the fact that I'm an 'outsider' here (i.e. non-NZ resident) I'll be quiet.
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">
It's more that what you added wasn't in the context of the thread or the discussion.
My points were in response to another post, and your (frankly patronising) repsonse didn't fit the discussion.
My points were in response to another post, and your (frankly patronising) repsonse didn't fit the discussion.
diego you make less sense than uncloz and are completely muddying the waters here
I will add my 2-bob though if I feel it's needed. Don't turn into another aikenmike on me.
Also, you boys are discussing ways to enter an Australian system, so I have a right to comment.
No, we're discussing the whys and wherefores of the Phoenix entering a team in the NZFC.
Stick to the topic or face the banstick.
What, so responding to Hard News comments was wrong. Come on mate......
But for the purposes of the fact that I'm an 'outsider' here (i.e. non-NZ resident) I'll be quiet.
Go back and read News's post. And then your response.
You went off on a tangent about the advent of NYL and the funding etc etc. News never raised those issues.
So yes, it was wrong. It was out of context "mate".
Also, make those annoying bits of html at the bottom of your posts stop.
That is all.
Thanks.
diego you make less sense than uncloz and are completely muddying the waters here
I will add my 2-bob though if I feel it's needed. Don't turn into another aikenmike on me.Also, you boys are discussing ways to enter an Australian system, so I have a right to comment.<div id="ref">�
?
i'm a dick because I disagree with you on something?
I actually agree with you in a way on this - youth league in Aus is (partially) federally funded, and I don't see why they should pay to develop our players. My understanding is that at this stage the Phoenix said they couldn't afford to fully fund an A-League youth side in Wellington, and the FFA won't (and shouldn't). As for the political side of it, who knows.
Easy on the personal attacks aye, i've never attacked you, just the points you've made that I have disagreed with.
I see an easy solution. Actually I see two.
1) allow the Nix to field a Youth team in the A-League
2) Make kiwi's the same as Aussie players, that way also OZ clubs can pick up young kiwi talent without having to use an import slot.
In the end, let's face it, how many professional kiwi players are going to "flood" the Aussie market? Not too many!
of course I know that both solutions are likely to be never applied, but just think about it...
1) allow the Nix to field a Youth team in the A-League
2) Make kiwi's the same as Aussie players, that way also OZ clubs can pick up young kiwi talent without having to use an import slot.
In the end, let's face it, how many professional kiwi players are going to "flood" the Aussie market? Not too many!
of course I know that both solutions are likely to be never applied, but just think about it...
Sadly 2) isn't an easy solution - in the early days of the A-League this was the case, but on joining the AFC this had to be done away with.
fair enough. then NZ to join Asia so we're all the same..a big farken family :P
1, When the Phoenix joined the league there was no national youth league, so there was no contract stating it anyway.
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
That's a good point HN. The youth league didn't exist when the Phoenix first signed up, so why has the FFA blocked them participating when the conditions were set up after the Nix were a going concern and thus up for negotiation? It can't be financial because the FFA is going to make a bundle from the bumper home crowd (s) in the Phoenix's playoff game (s) and it can't be logistical. It must be political - ie stifle the development of NZ development players (read future All Whites). Also it's a good point that NZFC teams won't want to risk their best players in a meaningless game against the Phoenix reserves if a youth/reserve team is put in the NZFC. Why would City do that when it already has a full NZFC/O League programme?
The only solution is a level playing field for the Nix in Australia - a youth/reserve side and full participation in the Asian competition if successful. Then the best young NZ talent will get a chance to shine in a professional league and have a pathway on merit and Terry has a chance to make some money back. I'll have no gripes then!!! Can you imagine it?
Agree with all of it except for this:
1. It's not the "only solution" it's the IDEAL solution. If we can't get there then the NZFC solution is a solution that also has a raft of benefits for everyone.
2. It's not the FFA that didn't want the Nix in the Youth A-League it's the Federal Government that funded it in part or in whole. One of the conditions attached to that money was that the league include the AIS (and while it wasn't spoken specifically I don't think the implication was that the Federal Government did not want to be seen to be funding Kiwis).
Certainly though the ideal (and ultimate goal) must be to get the Nix to be full participating members of the A League in all respects.
Fair enough Smithy, but isn't putting a Phoenix reserve/youth team in the NZFC just letting the FFA/Australian govt off the hook? They have imposed an unfair playing field on the Nix participation in the A League by barring them from the youth team and Asian competition. Surely the Phoenix are an Australian entity that just happens to call Wellington home? If that's the case then why are they penalized from participating fully in the A League? None of the other clubs are and some of them also have Kiwi players.
Most of your forum members appear happy for the Nix to be an Australian side participating in an Australian competition. I have no complaint against that, but only if it's a level playing field and you're allowed to fully participate in the A League, not have restrictive conditions apply. I'll tell you why they are imposed - the Australians and Asians don't want to see NZ football developing any further.
And yes, the losers in this are NZ players on the fringe of being good enough to play professionally but find their logical pathway largely closed to them because of restrictions imposed on the Nix. Personally I think we're giving away too much for too little in return.
I hope you win the A League title so the FFA is maybe suitably embarrassed into giving the Nix (and NZ footballers) a fair deal. I won't hold my breath though (about the FFA doing the decent thing).
There is a trade off to be remembered though in the Phoenix having New Zealand players not count as imports. It's a small thing, but it is a concession.
snip
Fair enough Smithy, but isn't putting a Phoenix reserve/youth team in the NZFC just letting the FFA/Australian govt off the hook? They have imposed an unfair playing field on the Nix participation in the A League by barring them from the youth team and Asian competition. Surely the Phoenix are an Australian entity that just happens to call Wellington home? If that's the case then why are they penalized from participating fully in the A League? None of the other clubs are and some of them also have Kiwi players.
Most of your forum members appear happy for the Nix to be an Australian side participating in an Australian competition. I have no complaint against that, but only if it's a level playing field and you're allowed to fully participate in the A League, not have restrictive conditions apply. I'll tell you why they are imposed - the Australians and Asians don't want to see NZ football developing any further.
And yes, the losers in this are NZ players on the fringe of being good enough to play professionally but find their logical pathway largely closed to them because of restrictions imposed on the Nix. Personally I think we're giving away too much for too little in return.
I hope you win the A League title so the FFA is maybe suitably embarrassed into giving the Nix (and NZ footballers) a fair deal. I won't hold my breath though (about the FFA doing the decent thing).
Yeah look I agree with all of that.
But, if we don't have a big enough carrot or stick to make the FFA let us in the Youth A-League then we can still benefit everyone by engaging the Phoenix in the NZFC.
I understand how that might be a bit threatening to established NZFC powerhouses, but it shouldn't be. It should be a welcome development to the competition they play in.
Imagine how much better prepared the NZFC's CWC participant would be if they could have had a few matches against full time pros before they went.
If it makes the NZFC stronger then ultimately it will make the game in New Zealand better. There are some egos that might get a little dent, but we've all experienced that from time to time (lord knows I have) and sometimes you come out the other side better than before.
And then one day, we can tackle the Youth A League. Or A League Reserve League, or whatever permutation there is then.
Smithy2010-02-15 17:19:44
diego you make less sense than uncloz and are completely muddying the waters here
I will add my 2-bob though if I feel it's needed. Don't turn into another aikenmike on me.
Also, you boys are discussing ways to enter an Australian system, so I have a right to comment.
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">
There are going to be plenty of Australian players in any Phoenix youth/reserve team in the A League so the argument that the Australian Gvt/FFA won't want to fund it doesn't hold water. Australian football is benefitting more from the Nix than NZ, so what is their beef?
Right. I know I'm in no position to tell the mods what to do but may I suggest you ban trolls like bluemagic and that unclolz person quicker. This is an important topic and I had to sift through 3 pages of utter tripe.
For next season alone I'm all for us joining the NZFC. If we win, like Tony P said, we wouldn't take the O-League spot so that's fine. People mentioned other teams would play weak sides against us as they couldn't get points off us? What are you talking about? The reserve Phoenix side could still get points shouldn't they so there would be no difference in the squads playing them. Also, a reserve team would get good crowds in Wellington and probably raise crowds when playing away at other venues.
While all that goes on in the first season the Phoenix really need to hurry up and sort something out with FIFA and the AFC regarding our A-League existence. Eventually we do want our younger lads playing in the same set-up as the Australian youth but if we get that, say, for one season then get kicked out then Terry will have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain.
The main NZFC issue would be that if a player plays in the NZFC (an amateur, Oceanian league) then gets selected for the first team (professional, Asian league) then that will count as 1 of only the 3 moves you are allowed to make per year. I don't know the ins and outs of that rule so you may not understand my example but others have mentioned it earlier.
Somewhere along the line Australia has to make Oceanian players not count as imports. Maybe in the ACL they'll have to be imports, fine, but in the A-League that shouldn't be the case. I would say just NZers not be imports but Australia said they'd continue to aid the Oceanian Confederation (not just us) when they left. A great way to aid Oceania would be to do this and, in my books, would count as a promise fulfilled.
While I think the Australian government should fund our youth team as we're an Australian entity like all the others, I can see their point. My proposition, for what it's worth, would be say 60% of our youth squad is made of Australians, then they should fund 60% of the costs and we cover the rest. Something like that.
loyalgunner2010-02-15 17:27:24
For next season alone I'm all for us joining the NZFC. If we win, like Tony P said, we wouldn't take the O-League spot so that's fine. People mentioned other teams would play weak sides against us as they couldn't get points off us? What are you talking about? The reserve Phoenix side could still get points shouldn't they so there would be no difference in the squads playing them. Also, a reserve team would get good crowds in Wellington and probably raise crowds when playing away at other venues.
While all that goes on in the first season the Phoenix really need to hurry up and sort something out with FIFA and the AFC regarding our A-League existence. Eventually we do want our younger lads playing in the same set-up as the Australian youth but if we get that, say, for one season then get kicked out then Terry will have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain.
The main NZFC issue would be that if a player plays in the NZFC (an amateur, Oceanian league) then gets selected for the first team (professional, Asian league) then that will count as 1 of only the 3 moves you are allowed to make per year. I don't know the ins and outs of that rule so you may not understand my example but others have mentioned it earlier.
Somewhere along the line Australia has to make Oceanian players not count as imports. Maybe in the ACL they'll have to be imports, fine, but in the A-League that shouldn't be the case. I would say just NZers not be imports but Australia said they'd continue to aid the Oceanian Confederation (not just us) when they left. A great way to aid Oceania would be to do this and, in my books, would count as a promise fulfilled.
While I think the Australian government should fund our youth team as we're an Australian entity like all the others, I can see their point. My proposition, for what it's worth, would be say 60% of our youth squad is made of Australians, then they should fund 60% of the costs and we cover the rest. Something like that.
loyalgunner2010-02-15 17:27:24
diego you make less sense than uncloz and are completely muddying the waters here
I will add my 2-bob though if I feel it's needed. Don't turn into another aikenmike on me.
Also, you boys are discussing ways to enter an Australian system, so I have a right to comment.
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">
There are going to be plenty of Australian players in any Phoenix youth/reserve team in the A League so the argument that the Australian Gvt/FFA won't want to fund it doesn't hold water. Australian football is benefitting more from the Nix than NZ, so what is their beef?
No comment out of respect to the other gents on here. (also I think it's where I am at present is why you blokes are seeing the extra line at the bottom of my posts. Trying to fix it).
< id="gwProxy" =""><!--Session -->< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">
Right. I know I'm in no position to tell the mods what to do but may I suggest you ban trolls like bluemagic and that unclolz person quicker. This is an important topic and I had to sift through 3 pages of utter tripe.
For next season alone I'm all for us joining the NZFC. If we win, like Tony P said, we wouldn't take the O-League spot so that's fine. People mentioned other teams would play weak sides against us as they couldn't get points off us? What are you talking about? The reserve Phoenix side could still get points shouldn't they so there would be no difference in the squads playing them. Also, a reserve team would get good crowds in Wellington and probably raise crowds when playing away at other venues.
While all that goes on in the first season the Phoenix really need to hurry up and sort something out with FIFA and the AFC regarding our A-League existence. Eventually we do want our younger lads playing in the same set-up as the Australian youth but if we get that, say, for one season then get kicked out then Terry will have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain.
The main NZFC issue would be that if a player plays in the NZFC (an amateur, Oceanian league) then gets selected for the first team (professional, Asian league) then that will count as 1 of only the 3 moves you are allowed to make per year. I don't know the ins and outs of that rule so you may not understand my example but others have mentioned it earlier.
Somewhere along the line Australia has to make Oceanian players not count as imports. Maybe in the ACL they'll have to be imports, fine, but in the A-League that shouldn't be the case. I would say just NZers not be imports but Australia said they'd continue to aid the Oceanian Confederation (not just us) when they left. A great way to aid Oceania would be to do this and, in my books, would count as a promise fulfilled.
While I think the Australian government should fund our youth team as we're an Australian entity like all the others, I can see their point. My proposition, for what it's worth, would be say 60% of our youth squad is made of Australians, then they should fund 60% of the costs and we cover the rest. Something like that.
For next season alone I'm all for us joining the NZFC. If we win, like Tony P said, we wouldn't take the O-League spot so that's fine. People mentioned other teams would play weak sides against us as they couldn't get points off us? What are you talking about? The reserve Phoenix side could still get points shouldn't they so there would be no difference in the squads playing them. Also, a reserve team would get good crowds in Wellington and probably raise crowds when playing away at other venues.
While all that goes on in the first season the Phoenix really need to hurry up and sort something out with FIFA and the AFC regarding our A-League existence. Eventually we do want our younger lads playing in the same set-up as the Australian youth but if we get that, say, for one season then get kicked out then Terry will have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain.
The main NZFC issue would be that if a player plays in the NZFC (an amateur, Oceanian league) then gets selected for the first team (professional, Asian league) then that will count as 1 of only the 3 moves you are allowed to make per year. I don't know the ins and outs of that rule so you may not understand my example but others have mentioned it earlier.
Somewhere along the line Australia has to make Oceanian players not count as imports. Maybe in the ACL they'll have to be imports, fine, but in the A-League that shouldn't be the case. I would say just NZers not be imports but Australia said they'd continue to aid the Oceanian Confederation (not just us) when they left. A great way to aid Oceania would be to do this and, in my books, would count as a promise fulfilled.
While I think the Australian government should fund our youth team as we're an Australian entity like all the others, I can see their point. My proposition, for what it's worth, would be say 60% of our youth squad is made of Australians, then they should fund 60% of the costs and we cover the rest. Something like that.
Bluemagic and Uncloz have valuable contributions to make sometimes. And we don't want to give them more to whine about by banning them just because we disagree with them.
Right. I know I'm in no position to tell the mods what to do but may I suggest you ban trolls like bluemagic and that unclolz person quicker. This is an important topic and I had to sift through 3 pages of utter tripe.
For next season alone I'm all for us joining the NZFC. If we win, like Tony P said, we wouldn't take the O-League spot so that's fine. People mentioned other teams would play weak sides against us as they couldn't get points off us? What are you talking about? The reserve Phoenix side could still get points shouldn't they so there would be no difference in the squads playing them. Also, a reserve team would get good crowds in Wellington and probably raise crowds when playing away at other venues.
For next season alone I'm all for us joining the NZFC. If we win, like Tony P said, we wouldn't take the O-League spot so that's fine. People mentioned other teams would play weak sides against us as they couldn't get points off us? What are you talking about? The reserve Phoenix side could still get points shouldn't they so there would be no difference in the squads playing them. Also, a reserve team would get good crowds in Wellington and probably raise crowds when playing away at other venues.
Maybe pay a little more attention to the tripe.
There are problems with professional players playing in an amateur competition.
One of the possible solutions is to not make the Phoenix part of the comptition but to schedule a series of friendlies in line with the leagues schedule. Thus getting around the pro/amateur problems but raising further problems of a different sort.
I get the impression the Phoenix aren't so keen on the friendly concept. I reckon they think it needs to be meaningful to get the best out of both their own players and the opposition, to ensure it has value.
And I agree with them.
Just setting the scene.
yeah it doesn't make sense to have a reserve team only to play "friendlies". it's no different from playing TW or Waitakere or whoever else, methinks.
We need a youth/reserve team to play in a genuine competition.
We need a youth/reserve team to play in a genuine competition.
As discussed, many issues:
1. Having a professional team in the league might mean no more pokie money for anyone.
2. Having a professional team in the league might make a whole lot of young players ineligible to play American College sport if they want to go to that way in the future.
3. Having a professional team in an amateur competition is likely to rankle with FIFA.
4. There is supposed to be a 30 day stand down when moving between a professional and amateur competition.
Now I think points 3 and 4 are pretty easily overcome.
Point 1 is a major one, and would require the Department of Internal Affairs to take a position one way or the other.
Point 2 is inescapable. The NCAA are unlikely to bend their rules just for our benefit. We'd just have to make sure we were honest with kids before they played NZFC that it might invalidate them if they wanted to play College soccer down the track.
Tim Myers for example. Played for Waitak yesterday against TeeDub. Might have College on his radar. If he'd been playing in a competition with pros then NCAA rules would make him ineligible.
may find sum time to wade through the responses.
I can see that FFA have some concerns and will be a tough nut to crack because it is less in their interests and may create more anxt with the Asia FIFa federation which they wold not want.
Getting nix into NZFC is in our control (NZ football) as far as I can see. Sure, it has some aspects to work through but they seem no brainers, of course real points have to be on the line for games v nix reserves, and yes Nix cannot qualify or win any prize money. But geeze surely they will be a huge lift for the game in NZ.
So, surely the 'powers' that be in NZ football are not so egotistical that they would stuff up the benefits of the nix reserves playing in the NZFC. I have not seen from the quick troll any REAL reasons that prevent it - more egos and self preservation - is that really the case. If so I hold no hope for this trip to the world cup getting us further ahead than last time with everyone so interested in themselves.
Will the chairmans report that News mentions at the beginning consider this aspect, present views on feasibility and be open to public viewing - lets see who the dissenters are and what their reasons are. Maybe we are missing something important in considering this ... but it hasn't come out in responses I looked at yet
Lets help ourselves
I can see that FFA have some concerns and will be a tough nut to crack because it is less in their interests and may create more anxt with the Asia FIFa federation which they wold not want.
Getting nix into NZFC is in our control (NZ football) as far as I can see. Sure, it has some aspects to work through but they seem no brainers, of course real points have to be on the line for games v nix reserves, and yes Nix cannot qualify or win any prize money. But geeze surely they will be a huge lift for the game in NZ.
So, surely the 'powers' that be in NZ football are not so egotistical that they would stuff up the benefits of the nix reserves playing in the NZFC. I have not seen from the quick troll any REAL reasons that prevent it - more egos and self preservation - is that really the case. If so I hold no hope for this trip to the world cup getting us further ahead than last time with everyone so interested in themselves.
Will the chairmans report that News mentions at the beginning consider this aspect, present views on feasibility and be open to public viewing - lets see who the dissenters are and what their reasons are. Maybe we are missing something important in considering this ... but it hasn't come out in responses I looked at yet
Lets help ourselves
Most agree , ITS WHERE they play that is causing the bunfight
And Smithy , so kind : Id blush but my barman doesnt like that sort of thing...
And Smithy , so kind : Id blush but my barman doesnt like that sort of thing...
was typing as your post went up Smithy good to see the real issues presented...thanks
Most agree , ITS WHERE they play that is causing the bunfight
And Smithy , so kind : Id blush but my barman doesnt like that sort of thing...
And Smithy , so kind : Id blush but my barman doesnt like that sort of thing...
Don't get used to it 
Don't NZFC players require OCEANIA Confederation registration whilst A-league players require ASIAN Confederation registration/
Would that save some impact on transferring from reserves to first team?
I not sure if this would be an issue or not.