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Ryan wrote:

Its interesting comparing the coverage of the A-League vs the NRL where even non Warriors games get plenty of coverage - I guess that is because of the age and traditions of the NRL compared to the A-League. When I was a kid pre-warriors people had the teams they supported, sea eagles lunch boxes at school, etc.

Does someone older than me know why the NRL got popular here (I'm guessing in the 70's and 80's) was it a big advertising push? Was it simply because of isolation and no other sports to watch? Why, for instance, has the ARL never gotten the same sort of traction?

I blame Fairfax Media. For everything.

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Ryan wrote:

Its interesting comparing the coverage of the A-League vs the NRL where even non Warriors games get plenty of coverage - I guess that is because of the age and traditions of the NRL compared to the A-League. When I was a kid pre-warriors people had the teams they supported, sea eagles lunch boxes at school, etc.

Does someone older than me know why the NRL got popular here (I'm guessing in the 70's and 80's) was it a big advertising push? Was it simply because of isolation and no other sports to watch? Why, for instance, has the ARL never gotten the same sort of traction?

The rugby league competition in Australia is (at least arguably, if not definitely) the premier club rugby league competition in the world. It's of a similar status for league fans as the English Premier League in football. So a comparison with the A League is not really apples for apples.

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bwtcf wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Its interesting comparing the coverage of the A-League vs the NRL where even non Warriors games get plenty of coverage - I guess that is because of the age and traditions of the NRL compared to the A-League. When I was a kid pre-warriors people had the teams they supported, sea eagles lunch boxes at school, etc.

Does someone older than me know why the NRL got popular here (I'm guessing in the 70's and 80's) was it a big advertising push? Was it simply because of isolation and no other sports to watch? Why, for instance, has the ARL never gotten the same sort of traction?

The rugby league competition in Australia is (at least arguably, if not definitely) the premier club rugby league competition in the world. It's of a similar status for league fans as the English Premier League in football. So a comparison with the A League is not really apples for apples.

Good point.

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It probably got big in the 80's when New Zealanders started regularly playing over there. The New Zealand players were already well known so those players going over there raised the whole profile.

Legend
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Ridge and Gary Freeman were two of the better players in the competition....

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A few others spring to mind: the Sorenson brothers, Mark Graham, Mark Broadhurst, Olsen Filipaina, Hugh Mcgahan, Clayton Friend, Brent Todd, Darryl Halligan, Steve Kearney..plus many more.

However very few Kiwis are plying their trade in the A league across the 10 teams/Youth teams. Anyone with a definitive number?

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Global Game wrote:

A few others spring to mind: the Sorenson brothers, Mark Graham, Mark Broadhurst, Olsen Filipaina, Hugh Mcgahan, Clayton Friend, Brent Todd, Darryl Halligan, Steve Kearney..plus many more.

However very few Kiwis are plying their trade in the A league across the 10 teams/Youth teams; probably under-represented in fact. Anyone with a definitive number?

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Global Game wrote:

A few others spring to mind: the Sorenson brothers, Mark Graham, Mark Broadhurst, Olsen Filipaina, Hugh Mcgahan, Clayton Friend, Brent Todd, Darryl Halligan, Steve Kearney..plus many more.

However very few Kiwis are plying their trade in the A league across the 10 teams/Youth teams. Anyone with a definitive number?

The only non-Phoenix NZers in the A-League are Smetlz, Roux and Barbarouses. Kwabena Appiah is perhaps another one. I wouldn't have a clue about youth teams.

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Ryan wrote:

Its interesting comparing the coverage of the A-League vs the NRL where even non Warriors games get plenty of coverage - I guess that is because of the age and traditions of the NRL compared to the A-League. When I was a kid pre-warriors people had the teams they supported, sea eagles lunch boxes at school, etc.

Does someone older than me know why the NRL got popular here (I'm guessing in the 70's and 80's) was it a big advertising push? Was it simply because of isolation and no other sports to watch? Why, for instance, has the ARL never gotten the same sort of traction?

Just checked Wiki on google then scrolled down... by 2007 there were 77 Kiwis playing in the NRL (93 if including unplayed squad members). Guess that answers.

tradition and history
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Jerzy Merino wrote:

Midfielder wrote:

T & R

In the speech Gallop said the next expansion teams would be in large population areas ... my guess is Auckland meets this .. however there is the AFC issue .. If NZF can get the AFC to allow another NZ team in the A-League I think Auckland is a very good chance of getting a team... not sure about a third as a third Sydney, second Brisbane, third Melbourne are in large population centres...

Population of Illawarra ('gong plus Shoalhaven & Kiama) as of 2012 was 450,000 plus and climbing. They're definitely keen on a team based at WIN Stadium. And of course Auckland is 3 times bigger still...

True, but we know Aucklanders don't give a shit.

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Leggy wrote:

Jerzy Merino wrote:

Midfielder wrote:

T & R

In the speech Gallop said the next expansion teams would be in large population areas ... my guess is Auckland meets this .. however there is the AFC issue .. If NZF can get the AFC to allow another NZ team in the A-League I think Auckland is a very good chance of getting a team... not sure about a third as a third Sydney, second Brisbane, third Melbourne are in large population centres...

Population of Illawarra ('gong plus Shoalhaven & Kiama) as of 2012 was 450,000 plus and climbing. They're definitely keen on a team based at WIN Stadium. And of course Auckland is 3 times bigger still...

True, but we know Aucklanders don't give a shit.

10,000 for the first Kingz game at Nth Harbour, about same for the last v Sth Melbourne at Ericcson, when Rufer was sacked and replaced by idiot Stevenson ... when the rot set in and management wheels fell off ... 10, 000 for first Knights game at Nth Harbour ... then the big drop-off as it grew obvious both team and club weren't up to it  ... then the rats abandoned the sinking ship - and who'd want to go watch a ship sink other than desperadoes and ghouls? 

When Rickie popped up and came riding to the rescue it was much too late far as the FFA and a disillusioned jafa public were concerned.

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Ryan54 wrote:

It probably got big in the 80's when New Zealanders started regularly playing over there. The New Zealand players were already well known so those players going over there raised the whole profile.

Was a fully professional league also. Rugby was still amateur and there was a lot of talk regarding high-level players leaving rugby that couldn't in those days return. Not all to the NSWRL, as it was then but..... Ridge, Botica, Gallagher, Schuster & Innis were all ABs or close to. League always got a lot of TV time.

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I think you also have to understand that before the Warriors came along, the NRL was getting very good coverage for about 5-6 years. Most people were fans of other teams. Graham Lowe put Manly right in front of us with the signing of Ridge and then that documentary on his first few weeks there. That intrigued a few people because he went and pinched a fringe AB on the up and that was unheard of. Folk supported Canberra, Buldogs, Penrith, Easts (as they were then)... Wally Lewis was still in the throws of some genius but it was waning. It had a foothold and more than a few people kept supporting those teams after the Warriors joined the competition. Because of that, I think that even if the Warriors left the comp, or if you like, a finals series without the Warriors (which is all too familiar) there is still a lot of interest because of those previous ties. We are talking nearly 25 years on our screens so it now has history and a foothold.

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Global Game wrote:

Political union would solve the issues btwn FFA direction and nix reality. Vote NO to key, cunliffe, the fat guy, Winston et al and YES to a truly even playing field for the Phoenix ;)
Maybe we could retain All whites identity and play in AFC too?

[/quote]

United Antipodes of the South? 

Jokes aside, if Fox TV deal is mega, I'm still keen to find out how much Sky is paying?

[quote=Midfielder]There is no indication that FFA have an anti NZ bias to a new team in fact Frank Lowy is on record as saying he wants another NZ team..

Hi, have you easy access to this quote, I would like to read it!

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Zachsta wrote:
Global Game wrote:

Political union would solve the issues btwn FFA direction and nix reality. Vote NO to key, cunliffe, the fat guy, Winston et al and YES to a truly even playing field for the Phoenix ;)
Maybe we could retain All whites identity and play in AFC too?

[/quote]

United Antipodes of the South? 

Jokes aside, if Fox TV deal is mega, I'm still keen to find out how much Sky is paying?

[quote=Midfielder]There is no indication that FFA have an anti NZ bias to a new team in fact Frank Lowy is on record as saying he wants another NZ team..

Hi, have you easy access to this quote, I would like to read it!

Lowy says a lot of tosh that never actually happens e.g. he's on record (Aussie radio broadcast 2008: check google) as saying that if Oceania can cobble together a team "from all the islands" then they'll be admitted to an expanded A-League. Not "they will be considered for admission" but "they will be admitted". Yeah right. Guess it depends on [the nationality/location/self-interest of] who's asking the questions.

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Jerry & Zachsta

Yep Lowy says lots of things and many don’t come to past.

However he has taken Australian Football from a basketcase nay bankrupt, corrupt, in-would looking, internally divided, no media aside from the riot, code with many tribes to the point to where it is today. So bad the old NSL could not afford to pay players air fares to return for national games. NZ Football was streets ahead of Australian Football in administrative terms 10 to 12 years ago.

Today Australia sits in Asia and are involved in Asian competitions, have a FFA Cup, a National Premier League, a W-League with increasing sponsors, media and revenues.

As to Zachsta question about a link sorry don’t have one but he said it more than once and it was about the time of the Nix’s coming in and also when the AFC did its number when FIFA had to step in.

In a broader sense and to answer Jerzy implied question, without Frank Lowy there would be no A-League. Beyond this he said when he was appointed as chairman to oversee the rebirth of Football in Australia that he wanted to leave the game in a position where Football could look after itself and we everyone needs to grow and develop. Lowy made it clear he was not going to help anyone other than on a temporary basic. My take on this is everyone involved in Football be they old NSL clubs, park teams, state associations, parent bodies etc had to develop and grow.

The Nix’s without doubt have succeeded and pasted all tests… a question for NZ football is how to grow revenues and keep pace with the growth of the FFA. NZF appear to be just hanging on and in need of some assistance. The old chestnut of folding Oceania into Asia [assuming Asia wants Oceania] often comes up for discussion. It would solve a lot of revenue issues if nothing else.

Back to Jerzy re Lowy, I think he would like a team in Auckland if they measured up across his want that it help and develop Football, but can stand on its own feet. What and how NZF is going IMO is the unknown in Lowy’s mind.  

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Australia is a country with five times the population of New Zealand, an economy eight times the size of New Zealand's and is in a much wealthier confederation, the NZF are never going to be able to compete with the FFA financially.

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The issue for NZF is not about competing with FFA; it's about how we work with our nearest neighbour, where thegame is expanding. If you consider that for nearly all purposes except FIFA WC qualification and sovereignty, oz/nz is one market and nz currently has 10% of the HAL franchises and 0% of anything else. Room to improve.

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Global Game wrote:

The issue for NZF is not about competing with FFA; it's about how we work with our nearest neighbour, where thegame is expanding. If you consider that for nearly all purposes except FIFA WC qualification and sovereignty, oz/nz is one market and nz currently has 10% of the HAL franchises and 0% of anything else. Room to improve.

I didn't mean compete as in try and win something, I mean compete as in be competitive. NZF is always going to struggle for money and game's for the national team.

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Ryan wrote:

Global Game wrote:

The issue for NZF is not about competing with FFA; it's about how we work with our nearest neighbour, where thegame is expanding. If you consider that for nearly all purposes except FIFA WC qualification and sovereignty, oz/nz is one market and nz currently has 10% of the HAL franchises and 0% of anything else. Room to improve.

I didn't mean compete as in try and win something, I mean compete as in be competitive. NZF is always going to struggle for money and game's for the national team.

Meaningful games mean big crowds and big money -

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People in New Zealand will DEFINITELY go to the football.

The puzzle is how to get them to go to the football REGULARLY.

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bwtcf wrote:

People in New Zealand will DEFINITELY go to the football.

The puzzle is how to get them to go to the football REGULARLY.

Play regularly, win regularly. Not rocket science.

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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To site an example of the differences between the growth of FFA compared to NZF last night there were 4 FFA cup matches played. Years ago in Australia there would have been no or very limited reporting say SBS ... Today Football stories are becoming major news stories. 

On the NZ Herald site I could not find a single mention of the FFA Cup nor the A-League and Football had no major tab even swimming had a tab.

On the stuff site they had a Football tab, and only 1 A-League story about the Nix's ..

Compare to this to Australia

The News Football tab has 7 articles today on the FA Cup  …http://www.news.com.au/sport/football

This at the height of the NRL & AFL season end…

Also saw a grab last night of Gallop with the head of Fox and his 2IC in the bar having a drink and watching what was going on… the evolution continues…

FFA Cup quarter-final draw conducted at Fox Sports on Tuesday night

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/ffa-cup-quarterfinal-draw-conducted-at-fox-sports-on-tuesday-night/story-fndkzvnd-1227068418737

NPL QLD outfit Palm Beach Sharks continue to the FFA Cup quarters after beating South Springvale

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/npl-qld-outfit-palm-beach-sharks-continue-to-the-ffa-cup-quarters-after-beating-south-springvale/story-fndkzvnd-1227068397347

More than 20,000 fans turned up for the four FFA Cup round of 16 games on Tuesday night

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/more-than-20000-fans-turned-up-for-the-four-ffa-cup-round-of-16-games-on-tuesday-night/story-fndkzvnd-1227068380833

Sydney FC, Adelaide United, Perth Glory and Palm Beach Sharks progress to FFA Cup quarters

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/sydney-fc-adelaide-united-perth-glory-and-palm-beach-sharks-progress-to-ffa-cup-quarters/story-fndkzvnd-1227068173662

St Albans Saints started strongly but ultimately Perth Glory’s FFA Cup class prevailed

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/st-albans-saints-started-strongly-but-ultimately-perth-glorys-ffa-cup-class-prevailed/story-fndkzvnd-1227068392215

Adelaide United knock out A-League champions Brisbane Roar in FFA Cup clash

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/adelaide-united-knock-out-aleague-champions-brisbane-roar-in-ffa-cup-clash/story-fnk9a3dc-1227068404791

Chris Naumoff’s super strikes helped Sydney FC to a 3-1 win over Sydney United in FFA Cup

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/chris-naumoffs-super-strikes-helped-sydney-fc-to-a-31-win-over-sydney-united-in-ffa-cup/story-fndkzvnd-1227068384884

SMH had five articles ... http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer

Plus goals where shown on morning TV and pre match the competition was in radio news sports reporting and TV. My guess is there have been no goals shown on NZ TV nor much radio comments...

Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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What has the NZ media not covering an australian cup competition have to do with the growth of NZF? 

Oh and football tab on NZs most popular news website. Second sport down under rugby. The herald also has a football TAB, and todays lead story is a football story, plus they also have a second football story.  But yeah, we're doomed and the nix shouldn't be in the A league. Well done Midfielder. 

Stuff TAB. 

Herald TAB:

Leading football story on herald website:

Appiah without the pace
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Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Tegal wrote:

What has the NZ media not covering an australian cup competition have to do with the growth of NZF? 

Oh and football tab on NZs most popular news website. Second sport down under rugby. The herald also has a football TAB, and todays lead story is a football story.  But yeah, we're doomed and the nix shouldn't be in the A league. Well done Midfielder. 

Stuff TAB. 

You asked 

[quote]

What has the NZ media not covering an australian cup competition have to do with the growth of NZF? 

The Herald may have a tab but I could not see it when I was there but take your word..

Given its a competition the Nix's play in and is being used to highlight a major point of difference between [see Gallop's address] the  Collision codes and Football ... Why should the NZ media report on the A-League if we follow your logic...

I think [maybe I am wrong], media coverage is a reflection of a sports growth. Rugby in NZ gets lots of media reflecting as the media see it their readships interest. Therefore if the NZ media report nothing on the FFA Cup can I assume its not considered newsworthy ... 

Personally and again I could be wrong, however I would have tho Footballs parent body could have arguably should have talked up a competition the Nix play in ...  Especially if NZ had both a Nix and Auckland side 

Remember all I was doing was trying to explain my earlier post pertaining to the growth of Football in Australia over the last ten years ...  13 articles in the two major papers in all FTA sports news and on all radio sports news from nothing 10 years ago is some growth.. 

Hope you follow my logic 

Marquee
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Yeah I don't know if the FA cup is a good example, but it is very clear that Football is below Rugby, Cricket, Netball and League in the media interest.

Are we on par with the Breakers or do the Breakers get more media than the nix?

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Tegal

Just on your snap shot of the herald sports page ... 

See the tab that says sport ... its big there was no similar size tab for football but there were big tabs for heaps of sports... I did see the little list but are you saying that is all Football ever gets ... on the small list ... it never has a big tab ... 

Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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The FFA cup just isn't as exciting over here as it is for you guys.

For Australia it is your first FA cup style competition. For NZ we've had the chatham cup for a century. That gets good coverage here. Though admittedly no TV coverage (not that the FFA cup gets any either, and that has the novelty factor going for it - plus pro sides being involved). 

Had the nix progressed past the first round, it may be getting more coverage. But it's hard for us to get excited about it otherwise. I kind of see it as just another preseason cup, but with potential to grow into something bigger. 

Again, all of this has nothing to do with NZF. 

As for coverage reflecting a sports growth and rugby being number one...I explained above that football has a tab on stuff that is just under rugby. And 2 of the top 5 sports stories on the herald website were football stories. Is that enough coverage to be a positive reflection for you? 

The herald tab - you don't have to take my word for it, I literally posted a picture of the TAB in my post above. As I did for the stuff TAB and the 2 leading football sports stories in the herald.

Did you even read my post at all? As usual, I'm guessing not.

Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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Ryan wrote:

Yeah I don't know if the FA cup is a good example, but it is very clear that Football is below Rugby, Cricket, Netball and League in the media interest.

Are we on par with the Breakers or do the Breakers get more media than the nix?

Depends if we/they are winning or not :p

Marquee
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If I go to the Herald sports home page there's the headline story about football, then a bunch of leading stories, then a series of sports-specific headings each with a handful of stories under it - but there's no heading for football. I can go and select football from the list on the side but if I just skim the page its not there. Which does seem odd.

Starting XI
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If I go to the Herald sports home page there's the headline story about football, then a bunch of leading stories, then a series of sports-specific headings each with a handful of stories under it - but there's no heading for football. I can go and select football from the list on the side but if I just skim the page its not there. Which does seem odd.

Did the same, and am quite surprised about it, have emailed them to see why 

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Be interesting from next say Tuesday to compare smh, news, abc, gu

Guardian Australia, with nzh, stuff

My guess is the Oz media will have heaps of coverage and N Z no where near the same. 

Hope. I am wrong.

BTW posted from phone so sorry in advance 

Appiah without the pace
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of course there won't be. Australia media has 9 different teams to cover.

We have one team. And only one local paper.

Cock
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I do wonder somedays if you just come here for the wind up Midfielder. The alternative is that you are a bit thick so trying to think the best of you.

Trialist
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Midfielder wrote:

Be interesting from next say Tuesday to compare smh, news, abc, gu

Guardian Australia, with nzh, stuff

My guess is the Oz media will have heaps of coverage and N Z no where near the same. 

Hope. I am wrong.

BTW posted from phone so sorry in advance 

This is so typically Midfielder it makes me laugh. You bitch for 10 years (or at least it feels like it) about how bad the media coverage of football is in Australia, and then when there is the slightest traction all of a sudden it's an indictor of the games growth and how far behind NZ is. That you use the FFA Cup coverage makes it all the more ridiculous - and I'm sure the Oz media interest is mainly being pushed by the FFA for their new-fangled competition and not so much any new found demand from the readers anyway.

Why on earth should the NZ media start covering Palm Beach v South Springvale? I have no idea what these teams are or where they are from, and I have no interest in finding out (or about any other teams from the bowels of Oz football) and I'm pretty sure the average NZ football supporter thinks likewise. If NZF were somehow able to significantly influence the reporting of the media (which from evidence seems limited at best) I would MUCH rather they focussed on increasing the coverage of the ASBP and the Chatham Cup as they are so much more relevant for NZ football supporters.

If you want football supporters in NZ to take the FFA Cup seriously (and therefore drive media coverage) then the FFA should treat the Nix just like any other participant in the competition. Having a "home" game being played Adelaide is an absolute joke and as long as we have no hope of ever watching one of these teams play why should we give a toss about them. For me at the moment FFA Cup games are on a par with pre-season friendlies and they seem to be treated as such by both supporters and media alike.

Overseas
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Midfielder wrote:

Be interesting from next say Tuesday to compare smh, news, abc, gu

Guardian Australia, with nzh, stuff

My guess is the Oz media will have heaps of coverage and N Z no where near the same. 

Hope. I am wrong.

BTW posted from phone so sorry in advance 

Don't apologise ... your punctuation... it's much better than normal...

Marquee
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Also the NZ Herald is an Auckland paper - so while they have Phoenix coverage it's not going to be that great as it's outside of the Phoenix's market, the problem is that Stuff should be the one pushing the nix (and they do have articles on them quite regularly) but they are more interested in gossip - the other day one of their articles was a breaking news piece about Britney Spears new hair cut...

So maybe the right place to be looking for coverage is:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/

?

Marquee
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Just to add - next month's (September) Sky magazine arrived in my mailbox this a.m. Not a word about the Nix other than viewing times in the programme listings pages.

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Ryan wrote:

So maybe the right place to be looking for coverage is:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/

?

Do you read..my post about when I said ... with nzh, stuff

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