2 Otago teams plus Dunedin tech at 14's. Dunedin tech sadly was comprehensively beaten in each game.
Mainland Juniors (please play nice)
Thoughts on the recent SI tournaments? Was it only Chch that had club teams?
Some Dunedin club teams also. Not alot but in some age groups, ie U16 boys had a Green Island team + an Otago rep team.
How did 3 kings from Auckland be allowed , let alone win tournament at 12th girls in Blenheim
I wasn't there but heard alot of exempt overage players allowed to play in U16 club teams. As most club teams play in youth grades they were trying to keep there teams together by including the overage players.
Just what I heard and I know a certain number of overage exemptions are allowed in the rules. But sounds like it tipped the balance for already strong mainland teams in some games.
Thoughts on the recent SI tournaments? Was it only Chch that had club teams?
Some Dunedin club teams also. Not alot but in some age groups, ie U16 boys had a Green Island team + an Otago rep team.
The 'idea' from my understanding is that these tournaments become participation tournaments, so more kids experience a tournament. But Mainland seems the only place in the SI who have gone to clubs. I was involved int he 11th grade in Nelson, and Otago had two rep sides, there was Central Otago, Marlborough, West Coast, Sth Canty, Mid Canty, 4 or 5 Nelson teams, and then umpteen Ch-Ch Club sides, teams that play against each all year anyhow.
It really has taken away something from these tournaments, although MF will argue till they're blue in the face that it's better for all this way. My older son loved being part of a rep side at these tournaments, but my youngest has missed that boat and in the new world will only play for his club.
I also don't know why they don't run an 'A' and a 'B' band at these tournaments, one of the Ch-Ch teams was beaten 16-0, 14-0 and 9-0 in their first three games, and ended up 24th out of 24th, but after the pool games at least started playing some teams that were more around their level.
Opportunities smopportunities. I wager this setup will not make one jot of difference to the next Messi or Ronaldo being discovered playing for Cobblers United at the 4th grade tournament held in Mossburn in 2019. It's simply DUMB. We live in an age of meddlers. If it's not broken then it hasn't been flogged hard enough or cleverly enough thought through. How much wasted time, money and effort do you think has been completely wasted in the past 10 years on re-inventing the football? What is it with people that it's not enough these days for them just to tell you they have a qualification, but by virtue of them having that qualification they're going to shift the planet off its spindle a little bit just to see what happens - oh F**k it spins out of control and no-one's better off. Oh bugger, never mind, by the way that will be $8k for the experience of a life time for little Johnny and Jane, sorry they didn't get a career out of it, but then I hardly got one myself ............
Parlands have got a full team from Nomads [last years Div 1 17s] thanks to the new coaching regime at Nomads. A huge fail there for Nomads.
Seems the coach wanted to keep the team together at Nomads as one unit again in 2019 and why wouldn't you as all can play u17s this season. All these players told they had to attend open trails along with the X Chch United guys and two teams to be picked on merit.
On the plus side for these young lads they will have Harry McCosh taking some trainings and not required to pay the $1000+ as at Nomads. The pitch they get to train and play home games [QE2} on will be better than the mud paddock that's 2 &3 at Tulett Park.
Shame the effort Steven Hoyle has put into the Junior and Youth at Nomads is being torn apart already.
Strange that anyone objects to a team being picked on merit. Will those boys want to stick with each other in to CCL with Parklands or will they want to progress based on their individual abilities?
Strange that anyone objects to a team being picked on merit. Will those boys want to stick with each other in to CCL with Parklands or will they want to progress based on their individual abilities?
I don't think that was just about picked on merit as will come for those that want to push on, more the new FDO undoing the good work put in by the previous FDO. The two Stves got this team playing in the 17s [promoted from div2 to1 last season] all of the younger age so could be competitive and learn as a close knit team of kids and parents not just for one year but to bolster Nomads in a few years as they got closer to PDL/MPL age and ability.
As with most kids at this age they will give up playing when it's not fun or playing with mates. I think if you looked closer to that post you will see a large cost for coaching which is a proviso of playing prems at Nomads, not all parents can afford that outlay. $7 a week for coaching at Parklands or $30-35 would have to to a good coach to see value in the extra cost x how ever many kids a family has.
If a notter or not of a coach comes in and brings a few kids from his old club [but not enough to form a team then tries to get a team together then what happens to the kids not selected. Easy answer most would give up playing or go other ways.
As a side I hear Nomads wanted two teams in Div1 for this age grade so what was the problem with keeping these guys together as one of those teams. Only becomes a problem, if you want to win at all costs and forget the enjoyment and learning go hand in hand. {Man U prime example]
I don't expect many of these new Parklands lads will be around to play in that clubs senior team. Time will tell.
You are pretty close to the truth Scottie Road. You must have some good sources! The Nomads group wanted to stay together as they enjoyed the variety of coaches and the improvement they made. Harry McCosh still knows his stuff.. Stephen Hoyle had zero involvement with the group. He was 'devoted' to the 15s. With Fernando moving after his 4 months at Chch Utd I understand he was going to select all the Nomads 17th grade sides. Steve W wanted to select the B squad. Half that side would have made the 'A' side if it was picked on 'merit'. Nomads also sent an email saying that Steve & Harry weren't confirmed as coaches for 2019- they must have some real coaching ability at the club! Agree about the mud-heaps at Tulett vs QE2. Particularly when there are 8 sides trying to use 2 pitches at 4pm! The number 1 pitch is reserved for the $1,500 per season boys.
This is what Nomads are advertising for the 17th Development Team on their website.
If you would like to be considered for our 17th Grade Development team in 2019 you must attend all open training's as listed above. This team will be playing provisionally in Division 1. Subscriptions for 2019 are $170.
The programme costs $550 (incl gst) per player.
These players also have the opportunity to attend the South Island Tournament at an additional cost.
Coaching Staff:
Head Coach: Fernando Lambert
Assistant Coach: Matt Jansen
This programme runs for a minimum of 30 weeks and will involve a minimum of 60 contacts and 20 games and gives you the opportunity to attend the South Island Tournament and possibly other tournaments TBA.
Not the $1500 mentioned and the players get to work with an A licence coach and Matt Jansen assistant to the clubs first team. It's also important to note that these young players have a huge chance of playing MPL & South Island league in the next few years. Fernando's coaching will only raise these chances. Nomads are a club who offers young players first team/ reserve team football and refuses to pay any 1st team players. So they have to focus heavily on youth development. As always there is tit for tat and gossip circulating with these situations. I'm sure the club could have dealt with it better and I'm also sure Steve's W's conduct could have been better through the things I've heard. Will be interesting to see if the whole team moves over or if some stick with Nomads. Also true that Nomads are campaigning to get 2 Div 1 teams in 17s. I think with the dual age band in the 17s this will be a problem for all licenced clubs who are bringing players through for their first team. As this situation shows at Nomads having only 15 spots in your 17s Div one is a problem, you have to deselect good boys to div 2. On the other hand you'd think anyone worth their salt as a future MPL player would be able to move up the Reserve/ 1st team after a year at 17th grade.
no first team players get paid at Nomads ???
no first team players get paid at Nomads ???
Who gets paid The Observer? I can guarantee Nomads didn’t pay a first team player a dollar for playing last season and that they won’t again this season.
no first team players get paid at Nomads ???
Who gets paid The Observer? I can guarantee Nomads didn’t pay a first team player a dollar for playing last season and that they won’t again this season.
Yes maybe as far as I know they never have paid direct [Travel then yes they have] but had good team nights in previous years thanks to getting a team spirit going friends on and off the pitch. Don't see anything of that these days.
Nomads didn't win anything of note imo, unless your call mid table in the MPL and a mickey mouse SIL [be another short life for this SIL just like all the others] a winning season.
Winning the English Cup has more kudos than the SIL when it's only a part season, Two full rounds of the best teams not just the few that want to enter then be worth shouting about.
Nomads still missing the links for a title win in the MPL in 2019.
How have peoples personal experiences with clubs been at the start of the year, now that the club licensing is starting to kick in??
In ChCH, expensive if you want to play Youth prems, otherwise no problem, but you get the feeling the attention is at the top end with most licensed clubs offering 'open' trials.
I am sure there are many players who will slip through the system and not make what used to be rep teamsas they cannot afford (or won't pay) the $850+ now needed for the top level
$250 to play Youth Prem at Waimak
$250 to play Youth Prem at Waimak
How many grades will they remain in youth premier? Maybe 13th?
My guess is two 13th and 14th...
My guess is two 13th and 14th...
So are you offering the full format other clubs offer in youth premier under licence?
Wouldn't think so as other clubs apart from united are offering the lowest they believe is available..
Interesting to see if the 14's make it. Maybe a bit of a dream having watched all the premier teams last year and followed results of lower grades. Big big big gap I believe.
This is from the site, i think other clubs have their academy's running all year? Or at least 3 of the 4 terms...
This is from the site, i think other clubs have their academy's running all year? Or at least 3 of the 4 terms...
Still seems the club won't hold quality from 13th grade onwards though as I have noticed waimak players trialing elsewhere.
And what of the financial rumours about club
This is from the site, i think other clubs have their academy's running all year? Or at least 3 of the 4 terms...
Still seems the club won't hold quality from 13th grade onwards though as I have noticed waimak players trialing elsewhere.
And what of the financial rumours about club
13th should be pretty competitive, there's a really good bunch of kids at the 12th grade level now too, which augurs well for next season.
What financial rumours are they?
This is from the site, i think other clubs have their academy's running all year? Or at least 3 of the 4 terms...
Still seems the club won't hold quality from 13th grade onwards though as I have noticed waimak players trialing elsewhere.
And what of the financial rumours about club
13th should be pretty competitive, there's a really good bunch of kids at the 12th grade level now too, which augurs well for next season.
What financial rumours are they?
Not heard of recent rumours, but their last financials made very grim reading. Unlikely but would be fantastic if they have turned that around in such a short time.
Would be great if they can offer the same quality program already running at a couple of other clubs for a few years now.
They certainly try pretty hard out there.
one_eyed_nik wrote:
Atta Elayyan who was a Canterbury and NZ futsal representative died in the recent mosque shootings. There was another young Dragons player who survived but lost both his cousin and his uncle. There's Other local footballers are also believed to have died. Tragic stuff!
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Seems four local footballers and coaches died, senior and junior:
https://www.facebook.com/MainlandFootball/posts/14...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/football-soccer/news/ar...
ATTA ELAYYAN (33, Canterbury and NZ futsal representative & coach), TARIQ OMAR (24, Christchurch United and Christchurch Football Academy junior coach)
SAYYAD MILNE (14, Cashmere High School goalie)Qand an unidentified 16 year-old goalie.
"Atta Elayyan...The 33-year-old tackled him to the ground while being shot at twice.
....The football community had also lost three other players including a 16-year-old goal keeper who tackled the gunman to the ground before he was punched in the face and shot and they were remembered too, he said.
Police had also told him Elayyan was also one of three people who tried to stop the gunman.
"He got shot and then got back up again and got shot again and then got finished off. And that's the kind of guy he was... When he was playing for his country, he was the guy that when we were losing he just would never give up - that was the kind of guy he was."
Bit of youth tournament football on this week at CFC with the under 15 international cup running from Friday till Sunday. First games around 10 tomorrow. Sadly onehunga have withdrawn late after last Friday's incident but teams from Wellington Nelson CHCH and Dunedin attending.
Hopefully in the future this replaces the Nike cup gap for the grades.
Great weekend of youth football at CFC last weekend. Sad that many more didn't pop down to watch. The standard from the 2 Wellington sides, 2 Nelson sides and the top 2 mainland sides was high. Things look really good for the future at those clubs.
Sad point would be the bottom half of teams still persisting with lumping the football forward
I see Mainland have announced their FTC squads- I didn't see any announcement of trials anywhere.
All of the U13 players are from the licenced clubs and I know our club where never contacted or others. Do they only pick from the closed licenced group on the broken understanding of that is where the best players are? Licensed clubs are the players that can afford it and Mainland will miss many players if they only focus on them.
Dont sweat on it. It seems harder to get out of than in.
Of the 15's squad excluding Nelson player(have not watched them enough) 6 players named would make the top 2 clubs sides. Certain clubs have a lot of influence. It's a matter of choosing a better pathway than mainlands which sadly may mean going to an expensive club who gives you exposure elsewhere
I spend every training and match day with my son's team and last year veiwed mainland selectors at 2 trainings for less than 10mins and at 1 game where they sat with there back to the game talking to whoever would listen..
And we have to be reminded that it's a rigorous process. K.M.A.
And in the 15's for instance they just had 3 days of tournament football to select from and they may have attended for 1 hour.
The best indicator is the players and when they laugh at selections you know they got it wrong
I am not saying it for my son, he did the U11 reps but would not make this squad.
It was an arguement I was having with Alan Walker when it all changed and that they were supposedly still going to see all the players.
Mainland will realise in around 5 years that there are just not enough good players coming through their system and many will be doing something else. This has just made 'top league' football for thiose that can afford it.
You are right that it is harder to get out than in the system though. If yoiu aren't in it from a young age then you never will.
What is then interesting is that they will only give 15 year olds dispensation to play MPL if they’ve been in FTC! Doesn’t account for any late bloomers or those later joining Football
What annoys me the most is we all complain right up to club board level but nothing changes. The selection process and dispensation one is a flip of the coin. Mainland employees needs to be far more visual and as it's starting to happen at club level their value becomes less as clubs employ higher qualified coaches than the head office
Following on from yesterday is also the Quito system. Clubs are asked to nominate players but not to many, as per a club fdo. So a number of dominant players missed out because they team they are in are dominant. Mainland are under current philosophy holding opportunities back for players
Yes, the whole talent system is mesed up since the changes 18 months ago.
I still can't get my head around the idea of top level football onky being for the rich now and can also see a lot of early burn out with 3 x training each week plus a game from 13 years old and add school football on top they will get fed up and possibly injured too as too much of the same actions.
Totally agree. I don't think players like Pele, Maradona and Rooney, etc came from wealthy backgrounds. They worked harder than others to work their way from poverty
Mate there is far too much money and effort being spent on centralised admin and management of the game. Silos and dictatorships exist where support and information would be more welcome. The current model of overseeing the game sucks. The decisions around how the game should be taught are made by well meaning employees because the volunteer administrators lack real experience and knowledge of whats best for the game and therefore sell out to the corporate drum beaters. Passion gets overridden by KPI's and the format becomes everyman's experimental playground. Quite simply football like anything else is a numbers game, unfortunately the current crop of administrators are only interested in numbers with $ signs attached to them.
So the players experience doesn't matter?
I'm not against smaller pitches as such but the way it's implemented on only 2 premier grades and not lower divisions of same age. Plus the late enforcement notice to clubs, yes it was on the radar but 32/3 days out is another joke from our administrators. Every year there seems a drama or change, possibly 4 yes ago it would have been fine as no one had made sure council had make the feilds.
You need to watch one of these coned fields and the confusion it creates. The word sideline I believe let's itself to a line not cones every 10 to15 metres. I suppose most on this forum have children past this age so really don't care.
At least the halfway is a line
Not there so I don't know, but have been down the same path before many times.
Sometimes it has been the federation with very poor communication, but I have also seen when NZF have dictated to Feds, Feds have dictated to regions, rgions have implemented and tried to do the right thing by holding pre-season meetings to explain the changes, but the clubs have mostly been noticeable by their absence at these meetings. Then the season comes round and clubs are scrambling around saying 'why didn't someone tell us'.
But always easiest to blame someone else. Not saying it's the case here, but check first....
FWIW I don't think 13 and 14 year olds should be on full size pitches - and certainly not the lower level divisions. Half of them can't kick a goal kick out the box or put a corner into it.
Mate there is far too much money and effort being spent on centralised admin and management of the game. Silos and dictatorships exist where support and information would be more welcome. The current model of overseeing the game sucks. The decisions around how the game should be taught are made by well meaning employees because the volunteer administrators lack real experience and knowledge of whats best for the game and therefore sell out to the corporate drum beaters. Passion gets overridden by KPI's and the format becomes everyman's experimental playground. Quite simply football like anything else is a numbers game, unfortunately the current crop of administrators are only interested in numbers with $ signs attached to them.
So the players experience doesn't matter?
I'm not against smaller pitches as such but the way it's implemented on only 2 premier grades and not lower divisions of same age. Plus the late enforcement notice to clubs, yes it was on the radar but 32/3 days out is another joke from our administrators. Every year there seems a drama or change, possibly 4 yes ago it would have been fine as no one had made sure council had make the feilds.
You need to watch one of these coned fields and the confusion it creates. The word sideline I believe let's itself to a line not cones every 10 to15 metres. I suppose most on this forum have children past this age so really don't care.
At least the halfway is a line
Not there so I don't know, but have been down the same path before many times.
Sometimes it has been the federation with very poor communication, but I have also seen when NZF have dictated to Feds, Feds have dictated to regions, rgions have implemented and tried to do the right thing by holding pre-season meetings to explain the changes, but the clubs have mostly been noticeable by their absence at these meetings. Then the season comes round and clubs are scrambling around saying 'why didn't someone tell us'.
But always easiest to blame someone else. Not saying it's the case here, but check first....
FWIW I don't think 13 and 14 year olds should be on full size pitches - and certainly not the lower level divisions. Half of them can't kick a goal kick out the box or put a corner into it.
Selwyn United has put in a correct sized youth pitch for its premier youth 13th grade along with youth sized goals.
Will also be used for girls 14ths and other teams those age groups whenever available.
All quite doable with one year’s notice. Finding out 3 days before first ssturdalast year not so much.
Mate there is far too much money and effort being spent on centralised admin and management of the game. Silos and dictatorships exist where support and information would be more welcome. The current model of overseeing the game sucks. The decisions around how the game should be taught are made by well meaning employees because the volunteer administrators lack real experience and knowledge of whats best for the game and therefore sell out to the corporate drum beaters. Passion gets overridden by KPI's and the format becomes everyman's experimental playground. Quite simply football like anything else is a numbers game, unfortunately the current crop of administrators are only interested in numbers with $ signs attached to them.
So the players experience doesn't matter?
I'm not against smaller pitches as such but the way it's implemented on only 2 premier grades and not lower divisions of same age. Plus the late enforcement notice to clubs, yes it was on the radar but 32/3 days out is another joke from our administrators. Every year there seems a drama or change, possibly 4 yes ago it would have been fine as no one had made sure council had make the feilds.
You need to watch one of these coned fields and the confusion it creates. The word sideline I believe let's itself to a line not cones every 10 to15 metres. I suppose most on this forum have children past this age so really don't care.
At least the halfway is a line
Not there so I don't know, but have been down the same path before many times.
Sometimes it has been the federation with very poor communication, but I have also seen when NZF have dictated to Feds, Feds have dictated to regions, rgions have implemented and tried to do the right thing by holding pre-season meetings to explain the changes, but the clubs have mostly been noticeable by their absence at these meetings. Then the season comes round and clubs are scrambling around saying 'why didn't someone tell us'.
But always easiest to blame someone else. Not saying it's the case here, but check first....
FWIW I don't think 13 and 14 year olds should be on full size pitches - and certainly not the lower level divisions. Half of them can't kick a goal kick out the box or put a corner into it.
Selwyn United has put in a correct sized youth pitch for its premier youth 13th grade along with youth sized goals.
Will also be used for girls 14ths and other teams those age groups whenever available.
All quite doable with one year’s notice. Finding out 3 days before first ssturdalast year not so much.
In fairness, Selwyn have a quite unique situation with council and the one amazing home ground for all grades. Many other clubs rely on council grounds and have different grades playing on the pitches.
The daft thing is, if this was implemented for all 13th and 14th grades not just the top league then it would be easier to prepare grounds (and spend $2000 on a set of goals).
Have heard stories that next weeks FTC camps are so unorganised that Mainland are scrambling to get any coaches who are interested and available. Seems to have been left until the last minute. And the Fed development manager is away on holiday so nobody to run it. Sounds like it’ll be another Mainland nightmare
Right, around half way through the season and with Alan Walker going I thought it would be worth looking at this again. I have always been against the way the premier youth grades have been set up based on licence and money rather than talent and being competitive - see my previous posts.
Some clubs seem to be doing well out of this, but if it was all working well how did the following happen...
- U13.Waimak have gone up and won 3/3 games. That talent would have missed out on competitive games as they were not
- U13 Ferrymead are being smashed each week and have finally dropped down. Were they really the best players playing in that league? and better than the many at other clubs missing out?
- U14 FC2011 have gone up and been competitive.
- Selwyn are not even in the U14 or U15 premier league and are licenced.
Does spending $800-3000 really get you the best players or (my usual moan) or is it just for the well-off or parents pushy enough to find the money?
I know there has been a lot of opposition from licenced clubs with Waimak and FC going into the premier league.
There are a lot of very good players in the div 1 of each age that Mainland are just not connecting with and probably have't seen play since they ended the Mainland rep teams.
I am interested to see what Mainland will do next or will they continue with this model?