Legend
2.1K
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16K
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about 17 years

What's the thoughts on NZ's current junior structure re X aside/ pitch dimension?

Is 4/5 aside best for the under 8's? When should full 11 aside kick in?

Legend
8K
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14K
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over 16 years

I quite like the current setup, my son plays in the u10's and they are playing 7 a side at the moment and will do so again next season I think, moving to 9 aside and the full pitch by 13?

it gives every kid a chance to touch the ball with the smaller pitches, which is what NZF are trying to achieve right? go to 11 aside too early and you'll have kids leaving cos they never see the ball or maybe touch it once and they learn nothing.

Legend
2.1K
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16K
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about 17 years

theprof wrote:

I quite like the current setup, my son plays in the u10's and they are playing 7 a side at the moment and will do so again next season I think, moving to 9 aside and the full pitch by 13?

it gives every kid a chance to touch the ball with the smaller pitches, which is what NZF are trying to achieve right? go to 11 aside too early and you'll have kids leaving cos they never see the ball or maybe touch it once and they learn nothing.

is 13 too early?

WeeNix
200
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530
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almost 5 years

Feverish wrote:

theprof wrote:

I quite like the current setup, my son plays in the u10's and they are playing 7 a side at the moment and will do so again next season I think, moving to 9 aside and the full pitch by 13?

it gives every kid a chance to touch the ball with the smaller pitches, which is what NZF are trying to achieve right? go to 11 aside too early and you'll have kids leaving cos they never see the ball or maybe touch it once and they learn nothing.

is 13 too early?

Well i first played 11 aside at about 11 through playing year 7/8 football for school and that was fine, but it's13th grade for club football.
Marquee
2.7K
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7.2K
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almost 17 years

I don't think so. Pretty sure in Italy we moved to full pitches (and goals) by age 12 and I don't recall there being any issues.

I was a goalkeeper back then and persevered for two more years until I realised I was never going to reach the required 1.90 to make it as a pro (or even 1.70m for that matter) and starting working my magic in midfield.

Legend
2.1K
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16K
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about 17 years

Perhaps relying on casting your memory back 30 years isn't the greatest (even if you were the same size back then nzp)?

Thoughts on watching a 13s game now, and seeing how many interactions the players have? Any differences between a first team and say a third tier team?

Legend
8K
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14K
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over 16 years

Feverish wrote:

theprof wrote:

I quite like the current setup, my son plays in the u10's and they are playing 7 a side at the moment and will do so again next season I think, moving to 9 aside and the full pitch by 13?

it gives every kid a chance to touch the ball with the smaller pitches, which is what NZF are trying to achieve right? go to 11 aside too early and you'll have kids leaving cos they never see the ball or maybe touch it once and they learn nothing.

is 13 too early?

I dont think so, by that age they've played for a good couple of years and are probably ready to focus on the larger game.

Legend
2.1K
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16K
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about 17 years

theprof wrote:

Feverish wrote:

theprof wrote:

I quite like the current setup, my son plays in the u10's and they are playing 7 a side at the moment and will do so again next season I think, moving to 9 aside and the full pitch by 13?

it gives every kid a chance to touch the ball with the smaller pitches, which is what NZF are trying to achieve right? go to 11 aside too early and you'll have kids leaving cos they never see the ball or maybe touch it once and they learn nothing.

is 13 too early?

I dont think so, by that age they've played for a good couple of years and are probably ready to focus on the larger game.

what about say 2v2 for 5/6 year olds?

Starting XI
480
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2.1K
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over 14 years

If 13 year olds have to take short corners, perhaps they are not ready for those pitches. 

WeeNix
200
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530
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almost 5 years

zonknz wrote:

If 13 year olds have to take short corners, perhaps they are not ready for those pitches. 

It really depends on the kid, someone in my team could get a goal kick past half way in 13th grade
Starting XI
480
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2.1K
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over 14 years

why would you ever be encouraging goal kicks past halfway in youth sides?

WeeNix
760
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750
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over 9 years

keep the team numbers as small as practical for as long as possible. The biggest reason is to keep touches of the ball at a maximum, the more players are involved with the ball the better the chance of improving technique and skill. NZ needs as many highly technical players as possible to be competitive at senior level. 

13 year olds wont be hurt by not learning 11 v 11 tactics with respect to their football knowledge 5 years later. All the fundamentals of tactical play are still possible within a 9v9 setup on a smaller pitch.

More touches of the ball is the most important consideration at this age and level.

The people wanting 11 v 11 are applying adult thinking to the game when the younger players need games appropriate to their technical needs.

and 3 others
Marquee
2.7K
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7.2K
·
almost 17 years

Feverish wrote:

Perhaps relying on casting your memory back 30 years isn't the greatest (even if you were the same size back then nzp)?

Thoughts on watching a 13s game now, and seeing how many interactions the players have? Any differences between a first team and say a third tier team?

I was actually taller - I just shrunk with age!

Agree that the smaller the pitch and the number of players, the more touches a kid gets. But when is it too late to make the switch? I mean, top 16 year olds will be training and sometimes appearing with their CL/NL sides, that only gives them 3 years to play on full side pitches (often against men).

Legend
2.1K
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16K
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about 17 years

Feverish wrote:

Perhaps relying on casting your memory back 30 years isn't the greatest (even if you were the same size back then nzp)?

Thoughts on watching a 13s game now, and seeing how many interactions the players have? Any differences between a first team and say a third tier team?

I was actually taller - I just shrunk with age!

Agree that the smaller the pitch and the number of players, the more touches a kid gets. But when is it too late to make the switch? I mean, top 16 year olds will be training and sometimes appearing with their CL/NL sides, that only gives them 3 years to play on full side pitches (often against men).

well they should find it easier scoring in bigger goals then :)

would be interesting to get some stats (player touches/tackles/passes/shots) from an age 13 full field 11v11. I reckon some players in some teams could get through a game doing fark all.

Phoenix Academy
280
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350
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over 8 years

One gotcha is the transition from 9v9 to 11v11.  You really need to have the numbers for three 9-aside teams so that the next season you can form two 11-aside teams.  It gets a little awkward if you only have two 9-aside teams and you can only form one 11-aside team, you either need to find some extra players from somewhere to field two 11aside teams , or find a home for the better players or those at the bottom.  This tends to affect the girls side more than the boys with the lower numbers

Also with girls and school football if born between January and March it is possible to be playing 13th grade 9v9 size 4 ball on Saturday, and 1st XI or Junior A 11v11 size 5 ball on Wednesday 

One in a million
4K
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9.5K
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almost 17 years

Yes, true. We had two 11th grade teams last season (9aside) and could only manage one 13th grade this season, squad numbering 20. I admire the coaches for the way they have kept them all tuned in and participating.

WeeNix
200
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530
·
almost 5 years

zonknz wrote:

why would you ever be encouraging goal kicks past halfway in youth sides?

Not saying it was an effective strategy, he could just do it
Phoenix Academy
64
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270
·
over 14 years

Feverish wrote:

Perhaps relying on casting your memory back 30 years isn't the greatest (even if you were the same size back then nzp)?

Thoughts on watching a 13s game now, and seeing how many interactions the players have? Any differences between a first team and say a third tier team?

Way back (prior to Year Zero when the Federation system was imposed), the Canterbury JFA introduced intermediate size pitches for 11th & 12th grades. The size of 80m x 60m was adopted - 60m to keep the width of a full sized pitch but the shorter length of 80m reduced the advantage of a long ball game with the quick (and often less technically capable) player not having as much space for a 30m run to goal. This size of pitch was welcomed by the many coaches who advocated a possession-based game.  There was no science behind the adoption of this pitch size - just the evidence of observing previous games in these grades on some of the Sth Hagley pitches which were constrained to smaller than full size dimensions by the location of the concrete cricket blocks.
Legend
2.1K
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16K
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about 17 years

Steptoe wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Perhaps relying on casting your memory back 30 years isn't the greatest (even if you were the same size back then nzp)?

Thoughts on watching a 13s game now, and seeing how many interactions the players have? Any differences between a first team and say a third tier team?

Way back (prior to Year Zero when the Federation system was imposed), the Canterbury JFA introduced intermediate size pitches for 11th & 12th grades. The size of 80m x 60m was adopted - 60m to keep the width of a full sized pitch but the shorter length of 80m reduced the advantage of a long ball game with the quick (and often less technically capable) player not having as much space for a 30m run to goal. This size of pitch was welcomed by the many coaches who advocated a possession-based game.  There was no science behind the adoption of this pitch size - just the evidence of observing previous games in these grades on some of the Sth Hagley pitches which were constrained to smaller than full size dimensions by the location of the concrete cricket blocks.

yeah I think 13 and maybe 14 grade would ideally be intermediate size pitches around those dimensions - but it isn't that practical to have such pitches

Phoenix Academy
280
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350
·
over 8 years

zonknz wrote:

why would you ever be encouraging goal kicks past halfway in youth sides?

Not saying it was an effective strategy, he could just do it

its one way to learn you can't be offside from a goal kick :-)

Phoenix Academy
64
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270
·
over 14 years

Feverish wrote:

Steptoe wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Perhaps relying on casting your memory back 30 years isn't the greatest (even if you were the same size back then nzp)?

Thoughts on watching a 13s game now, and seeing how many interactions the players have? Any differences between a first team and say a third tier team?

Way back (prior to Year Zero when the Federation system was imposed), the Canterbury JFA introduced intermediate size pitches for 11th & 12th grades. The size of 80m x 60m was adopted - 60m to keep the width of a full sized pitch but the shorter length of 80m reduced the advantage of a long ball game with the quick (and often less technically capable) player not having as much space for a 30m run to goal. This size of pitch was welcomed by the many coaches who advocated a possession-based game.  There was no science behind the adoption of this pitch size - just the evidence of observing previous games in these grades on some of the Sth Hagley pitches which were constrained to smaller than full size dimensions by the location of the concrete cricket blocks.

yeah I think 13 and maybe 14 grade would ideally be intermediate size pitches around those dimensions - but it isn't that practical to have such pitches

Yeah, the CJFA could introduce it only when the City Council ceased charging for junior pitches - but after that, there was no marginal cost (we funded the additional goal posts necessary by maintaining existing team levies and supplying posts to the clubs). Prior to that there was a charge of $400+ per pitch (mid-1990's $), but by lobbying a city councillor and pointing out that an affluent private school was using council land at a peppercorn rental, the council eventually ceased charging for grounds for all junior sporting codes. But the intermediate pitches worked well and definitely contributed to possession-based games.

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