(The not-so-temporary quite-official) Gooner Thread

I really, really disagree strongly that we've currently got a clear philosophy. 

We're pressing, but only a little, and not in a very co-ordinated way. We pressed better under Wenger.

We try to pass out from the back with a keeper that clearly struggles with it, resulting in more long ball than you'd expect.

We've got two players occupying the '10' space, and neither are comfortable drifting wider.

Here are Ozil's stats this year, which show that he's been basically ineffectual in comparison to usual output;

Bellerin is doing it all on his own down the right because there is a giant gap where Mkhi would usually be, while Monreal gets help from Auba on the left. It's ridiculous to blame Bellerin for letting in players behind when he's supposed to be covering the entire pitch. Either a midfielder drops in behind him or we play Mkhi instead of Ramsey or Ozil.

We've got one of the best strikers in the world playing on the wing, at about 50% effectiveness.

It's all over the place, for mine. The only reason we haven't been rolled is because of Cech and flashes of brilliance from our bigger players. Emery is being pragmatic for the moment as he realises he perhaps doesn't have the players to play exactly how he would like.

Look at Chelsea and Sarri - that is a clear philosophy, and they've had less time to implement it. Of course, he also inherited a team who recently won the title, so it's an unfair comparison - but still.

Against Everton specifically, they created more big chances than us, and purely based on stats should've won.

On the positive side, we're playing pretty poorly but still winning. Of course, we've won against mostly poor sides, but no game is easy - Watford will be a real test.

I agree Valeo, I think we are at a crossroads with the squad and whatever type of system/philosophy we are trying to implement, We really don't have specific players to play Unai's system. So to make it work, we are trying to fit players into positions that aren't their natural positions/most effective positions. E.g. Auba playing left, Ozil playing right, Cech playing with his feet. 

What I'd like to see is Unai show some teeth and make hard decisions about who we play. So stick our best players in their best positions rather than trying to play all our best players at the same time. Though, I am not convinced it is his style to do that. 

I wonder if he’s gun shy on that from KWLap after Neymar at PSG

I wonder if he’s gun shy on that from KWLap after Neymar at PSG

I'd hope not. We have no personalities to compare to the ego of Neymar - Ozil obviously isn't easy to deal with, but he's the damn manager. He has to make these calls.

For mine, we need to sell Ramsey in the January transfer window, preferably to Italy or Spain, then fund another midfielder who actually fits our system.

Happy to agree to disagree. I can see the merits in many points you guys have made there, I'm not going to claim I'm right, they are just my opinions. I guess we'll wait and see how it pans out, it is still early doors yet.

Yep a big test against Watford, for sure. Newcastle away was a good test, as was Everton after the short turn-around from the Europa League, but perhaps this is bigger than those, given their decent form, and the fact they've been a bit of a bogey for us of late. 

Anyone know what the deal is with Sokratis' injury? 

Sokratis just had a dead leg. May be back for Brentford.

Also, stats to back up my 'we pressed better under Wenger' statement. Expectation v Reality is very interesting here, as if you ask most people, they'd say we're pressing better under Emery because, well, that's what they wish was the case.

This year we are way down the list, when usually we're top 4; (also wtf Watford)

if we sell Ramsey I’d rather we bought a winger than another CM. Mhiki and Iwobi can play 10, as could Lacazette at a stretch. But we don’t have a Salah, Mane, Dembélé, Sane type in the squad.

My take away from that graph is FEAR.

Watford leading the league in opposition half turnovers + our shaky passing at the back under pressure is a recipe for disaster......

I’m hoping Sokratis gets to destroy Deeney Cajones.

Also worth mentioning that pressing success isn't measured only by that statistic. A good result from pressing is also causing the opposition to lump long, or try low-percentage through-balls, when they really want to play out from the back. 

However, I'm not claiming you're wrong at all valeo. I hadn't actually thought about pressing under Emery vs pressing under Wenger until you bought it up, and when I think about it I probably agree with you. In fact with Torreira in there, it looks like we tend to win more ball in midfield, when the CBs try and play in to their midfielders, rather than by harrassing their backline and keeper. 

On Ramsey, the chance to sell for a decent fee has gone. We should've done that in the summer. We simply must re-sign him now or we're taking a huge hit financially. 

Chalk it up as another contractual failure for our club, there's no way we should be in the current situation yet again. 

WTF is the point of VAR than for moments when Iwobi is clipped in the box right in front of the ref. Fudgeing Mike Dean!

Anyone watch this morning? Had to miss it due to work unfortunately. Give us a write up if you don't mind please. Interested in how we looked.

Can explain about first half. Smith-Rowe played through the middle. We look composed at the back excluding Leno’s almost f*ck up on 2 minutes and Mustafi falling over. I’m actually wanting to see Holding join Sokratis as our starting pair for a spell. Attacking wise we looked good with full backs bombing forward well, although Mhiki displayed his bad touches again which was frustrating. Welbeck’s shown two good finishes but mostly due to great service. Was also impressed with Welbeck hold up play, stronger than Lacazette and drops deeper to provide an outlet for the CB’s or CM’s. 

A few times I got annoyed seeing a lack of movement in the final third so Elneny or Guendouzo turned back to the CB’s. It’s not that no one was moving, it’s that people were all making runs behind away from the passer, rather than some people coming towards the passer.

They offered bugger all on attack and a clear gulf in capabilities. Have only seen goals from 2nd half, full credit to the free kick taker but other than that I doubt they would have bothered our defence given their crossing would go over the keeper, and corners not beating first man etc.

Smith-Rowe looked dangerous but anonymous, but I guess that’s the role of our #10 in this formation.

All in all that’s another win in a row, Welbeck’s the first player from the prem to score in 3 comps, and Mourinho’s meltdown continues.

Really good points made here imo brumbys. 

No.10's are anonymous in this system really, I made the comment earlier that the role seems to remind me of what Ferguson used to do at times, particularly with Ji Sung Park (or is it Park Ji Sung?). A kind of utility role with very specific instruction, and certainly not much freedom. 

Kinda hope Leno fudgeing up gets people off Cech's back. Cech has been doing a fantastic job of it.

Looking ahead to the weekend this looks like a banana skin waiting to happen. Watford have been scrapping some decent results away, while we still haven't seem to nail our team wide defending or how we attack. If we keep up our slow first half starts up this would be the match to be punished for it (City/Chelsea aside).

Since the Man City game we're averaging 2.7 goals per game, so the attack is delivering in terms of pure stats, without being even close to their potential. That's very exciting. 

I think we'll score goals for sure. It's all about the defence... 

Someone else mentioned Holding potentially partnering Sokratis, I'd actually be keen for that...

whats our average goals conceded per game? I imagine that might be pretty high as well..

For the season it's at 1.33333. The real stat is chances conceded or expected goals, which I CBF finding. My take away has been that post Chelsea have been we're still doing poorly in those stats but haven't been punished as much as we could be.

I'm a big fan of Holding & Sokratis, given Mustafi keeps falling over like he's running on ice he can't do much worse.

Yep, which is why it's all about the defence!

Laca and co will score, we just gotta make sure Watford score less!

The Ramsey situation is really interesting. Ornstein's reporting a contract was agreed in principle but Arsenal have backed out. So. Many. Questions. Is this linked to the incoming of KSE? Is this Emery/Sanellhi flexing their muscle? Is this football driven or money driven?

It's disappointing no matter which way you look at it to not commit to the new deal. I look at our squad and while I feel he could leave and a winger replace him we'd be better off, I'd rather we kept him and played him deeper and sold off Elneny to fund another winger. That would leave the whole squad stronger.

Anyway, if we're resigning ourselves to him leaving on a Bosman or in January it begs the question; who does Emery play behind the striker? The guy who is better at pressing but is leaving, or the guy worse at pressing but on the biggest pay packet and not currently producing. Genuine headache for Emery.

For me personally I'd like to see Emery give Ozil a crack in behind, ideally at home against Watford this weekend.

                       Laca

             Auba   Ozil   Iwobi

                 Xhaka Torreira

Monreal Sokratis Holding Bellerin

                       Cech

I wouldn't be surprised to see both Rambo and Ozil leave. And that doesn't scare me like it might have done a year ago.

Rambo news is odd, wonder what's going on there. 

Keen to keep him but if Emery and co think they can get better value for money on the market then all power to them, lets see what they turn up with.

Tonight I'd be going for continuity in the forwards, but would love to see Holding partner Sokratis... don't think it will happen though...

                     Cech

Bellerin-Sokratis-Holding-Monreal

              Xhaka-Torreira

      Ozil-Ramsey-Aubameyang

                 Lacazette

Yep, I don't think either player quite fits under Emery.

I'd pick the same team as above, but Iwobi in for Ramsey.

Totally, he's a bit like Holding really with recent performances justifying inclusion for our main 11.

I don't think Holding quite did it with the game against Brentford, for mine. His passing is still sloppy; but certainly Iwobi.

Ozil needs to be central, otherwise we have our two outside players drifting in all the time and he is a better 10 than Rambo. Iwobi for Rambo

7 in a row. 4 points off first. Can't argue with that. 

That game showed me the value of swapping Iwobi for Rambo as you guys were suggesting. Perhaps that is the move now.

Bellerin still doing my head in defensively, does he lose every single 50/50??? 

Mustafi being Mustafi, Holding shone in comparison. I'm ready for Sokratis/Holding. 

I like that our entire team seems to have a little bit of mongrel off the ball now. 

I know comparisons with Wenger are a bit silly when we're trying to build something new, but that really did strike me as the sort of game where we would've crumbled and lost in the last couple of seasons. 

I think Mr Blogs has nailed this piece:

https://arseblog.com/2018/09/arsenal-2-0-watford-w...

Also, here is the numbers piece from the match which shows how we didn't deserve that win but got it anyway:

https://arseblog.news/2018/09/arsenal-2-0-watford-...

Iwobi in for Ramsey, Holding in for Mustafi. Just leaves you with the question of what to do about Auba getting more involved? Perhaps by bringing Iwobi in on the left and pushing Auba to the right he could be a bit like Walcott was, using his pace from wide right to get in behind, or be a back stick option for crosses from the left.

Means your bench is full of options in Ramsey, Mhiki, Welbeck, Guendouzi too.

"Didn't deserve the win"? Of course we did!

We finished one chance, and a quality ball and a quality run by our striker caused an own goal, and that's that. They had good chances too but their finishers weren't as good as ours, their keeper wasn't as good as ours on the day, so they did not score, and we did. 

That's deserving of a win for me. 

If they had been unfairly denied something by the ref that would have changed the result, then I could get on board with the "didn't deserve it" terminology. As it happens, we were the only side denied a very obvious penalty...

I'm talking statistically.

However Chelsea was an example where we actually edged them on the stats:

I'm not complaining, it's just that we didn't play well, and haven't been playing well. But we're getting wins which is an improvement, but we are riding our luck.

Winning ugly, getting some agro in the squad, seeing out games - all massive steps forward. But when that's every game it's clear we're not playing with a specific style that puts us in control.

I guess we just have a different opinion on what "deserve to win" means. 

Statistically we won 2-0. We scored 2 goals, they scored none. Our strikers were better. Our goalkeeper was better. That was the difference in the end, and that is why we deserved to win - we had better players on the day. 

I think what you are saying is that they created enough chances to win the match, which those statistics show, and I would agree. 

But their finishers were not good enough, so they did not score, and therefore did not deserve to win the match, in my opinion.

To be fair I'm splitting hairs a tad, on the terminology of that one phrase. 

Overall I totally get what you are saying with the stats and 100% agree. We're riding our luck at times and giving up too many chances. Hopefully we change Mustafi out for a Sokratis/Holding partnership, at least until Kosc returns. 

Big positive has been Emery's in-game changes. Seems to have a knack for a sub and a tweak to the formation and roles. Not scared to do it early either.

And then he goes and busts his hammy YIKES

On the other hand Leno was very very good. The save low down when he first came on was fantastic, great reaction and a very strong hand. And I think his efforts on set pieces were decent, he showed more ability in coming out and punching etc than Ospina already, which was always Ospina's achilles heel. That's a big thing that Cech brings, a command of the 6 yard box, and tends to be where overseas keepers can struggle in the premiership initially, so it was good to see Leno being brave and getting those. 

My favourite bit was the commentator calling him "Jay Leno".

The commentator (Tony Gale) was TERRIBLE all  game. He was completely sharkting on Arsenal for 90 mins. It was ridiculous. 

On the game, I was really happy we fought for it against an absolute cod of a team. I haven't seen a team come to the Emirates and be that good at pressing, and that strong, in quite a while (except for City). The fact that we matched their intensity and at times pushed back with our own physicality is a really good sign. 

Could we have lost? Of course. Were Watford better for long periods? Definitely. But we came up trumps at the key moments, and that's what matters.

It's a concern that statistically we are getting completely overrun basically every game, and letting in chance after chance - we've been saved by poor finishing for perhaps the last 4 games. That is not sustainable. I think everyone knows that.

Iwobi in for Ramsey for me provides us a balance. I do not know what Ramsey's role is supposed to be, but he's been terrible in it.

Leno made some really good saves, after a nervy start, and I think he will get better the longer he is in the side. It's interesting you mention the punches, though, as I think those punches are ones that Cech would've caught. A keeper who punches a lot indicates that he's too nervous to try and catch it, imo. (sometimes punching makes more sense obviously, but there were a couple of times he could've caught it) He also had one moment where he completely flubbed his lines and fell over Mustafi.

Gale was SHOCKING! I'm glad someone mentioned that, I had forgotten. I was fuming at the time, what absolute rubbish. He was all ready for us to lose that game and it sounded like he hadn't prepared for what he'd say should we actually win. 

At one point I think he actually claimed the Arsenal fans were chanting "Deeney look at the score" because we supposedly want him on our team??? Did I hear that correctly? 

Yes agree about the punches vs catches valeo, but baby steps are ok for Leno at this point ;) 

And love your comment here;

"On the game, I was really happy we fought for it against an absolute cod of a team. I haven't seen a team come to the Emirates and be that good at pressing, and that strong, in quite a while (except for City). The fact that we matched their intensity and at times pushed back with our own physicality is a really good sign."

Agree. It was so good to see. Emery has bought some bite to this team and I'm loving it.

He called Bernd Leno Jay Leno. The man is a fudgeing mong.