OFC Nations Cup 2016 - vs Vanuatu | Tues 31 May | 6pm | SS Popup

Marquee
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over 12 years

Hard News wrote:

I'm not entirely anti the concept but this isn't the vision we were sold by Hudson when he signed...

in fact it's the polar opposite of what Hudson said he wanted to do. I guess it's a good thing to be pragmatic and realise when you need to change your approach, but it seems like the pendulum has swung to the other extreme.

The biggest issue isn't so much that we are hoofing long balls though, it's that our defence seems shaky and disorganized and our midfield can't seem to control the tempo of the game when they try to. That really doesn't bode well for the near future if we are going to be playing against decent sides. 

If we were playing longball but knew we COULD play differently if we wanted to that might be different but it looks like at the moment this is the only way we can play.

Marquee
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over 13 years

Rusty Dunks wrote:

Big credit to Hudson, the staff and players who have done the business so far. Two games, two wins and two clean sheets.

There is no right way to play football, but I have to be completely honest when I say I switched off the game at halftime not because it was already game over, but there was no evidence of anything inspiring exciting out on the pitch.

From the sounds of the second half report Vanuatu were unfortunate to not bag a couple goals, and already showed some glimpses of a "brand" of football they're trying to playing which deserves a lot of credit.

This All Whites team could of won 5-0 (and more) with the ball on the ground, controlling the game with possession, moving Vanuatu around the pitch with 5-6 passes (which on rare glimpses happened and opened them up easily), create more clear cut opportunities and just as importantly conserve energy with the ball in possession.

I am sorry but I firmly believe that while this crash bang approach may work against Fiji, Vanuatu and at OFC Nations Cup, it is awful to watch, doesn't inspire me and isn't sustainable at the next level.

I agree with this - I'm no fan of Anfony, but two wins out of two (both comfortable by the sounds off it - I don't have Sky) and qualification for both the 3rd round of WCQ and the semis of the ONC in the bag. Jobs a good'un.

Just a question about the "crash bang approach" - is playing that way really so bad? I'd prefer the AWs coach to say "we're going to lump it up and get stuck in" rather than "we're going to play out from the back and knock triangles about" as we are never going to play attractive football. It's not in our DNA to play tiki-taka, so why be ashamed of playing hoofball? NZ is, by nature/design, a fairly aggressive country - our main two male sports are rugby and league, and that physicality spreads into other sports. Even netball is all elbows and collisions. So why not the AWs?

For as long as I have a clear memory (going back to the mid-80s) our version of playing out from the back is just to knock it around the central defenders, then whack it up for some big cod to get hold off, with any scraps picked up by our midfielders. (the only real clear match I have of this not being the case was vs Italy in the WC, though no doubt someone will correct me......) So as long as we have a coach who is honest about it, and we learn to use that game play as a strength, is it such a big deal?

I mean, all we do now is play that way but we try and fool people by saying that we are trying to play the proper way

(don't get me wrong, I'd love to see us play "ole!" football......I just don't believe we will ever change our basic predisposition to kick the fudge out of it)

we play good football at age group level and have small and quick attacking players, why not play to their strengths?
WeeNix
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about 9 years

Hard News wrote:

I'm not entirely anti the concept but this isn't the vision we were sold by Hudson when he signed...

Quite right it wasn't - so was Hudson knowingly telling porkies, selling a dream, overestimated his ability to produce "proper" footballers, or was he unaware of our footballing landscape? (my bet is the last)

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aitkenmike wrote:

Hard News wrote:

I'm not entirely anti the concept but this isn't the vision we were sold by Hudson when he signed...

This, and also there are plenty of New Zealand coaches who could do the job if that is the approach we want to take.

Not in the eyes of NZF there isn't

WeeNix
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about 9 years

Ryan wrote:

[/quote] we play good football at age group level and have small and quick attacking players, why not play to their strengths?

Good question - my counter-argument would be that there is a big difference between age-group and mens sport (any sport), and how one approaches one isn't how you approach the other (less time on the ball, bigger and stronger and quicker opposition, better understanding/vision of the game)

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Rusty Dunks wrote:

Hard News wrote:

I'm not entirely anti the concept but this isn't the vision we were sold by Hudson when he signed...

Quite right it wasn't - so was Hudson knowingly telling porkies, selling a dream, overestimated his ability to produce "proper" footballers, or was he unaware of our footballing landscape? (my bet is the last)

Plus he's trying to hang on to his job. And get a few wins on his cv.

Life and death
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about 17 years

aitkenmike wrote:

Hard News wrote:

I'm not entirely anti the concept but this isn't the vision we were sold by Hudson when he signed...

This, and also there are plenty of New Zealand coaches who could do the job if that is the approach we want to take.

To me the mark of an half decent coach is the ability to adapt what he has to the situation at hand. How many people here have been employed in a new job and had to make changes to the way they do things or would ultimately like to do things because the new situation warranted it? Point I'm trying to make is that you can't put too much of a downer on him because he said he would so something one way and later does it another way. Might be different if he wasn't getting wins at this tournament, but he is.
WeeNix
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Rusty Dunks wrote:

Big credit to Hudson, the staff and players who have done the business so far. Two games, two wins and two clean sheets.

There is no right way to play football, but I have to be completely honest when I say I switched off the game at halftime not because it was already game over, but there was no evidence of anything inspiring exciting out on the pitch.

From the sounds of the second half report Vanuatu were unfortunate to not bag a couple goals, and already showed some glimpses of a "brand" of football they're trying to playing which deserves a lot of credit.

This All Whites team could of won 5-0 (and more) with the ball on the ground, controlling the game with possession, moving Vanuatu around the pitch with 5-6 passes (which on rare glimpses happened and opened them up easily), create more clear cut opportunities and just as importantly conserve energy with the ball in possession.

I am sorry but I firmly believe that while this crash bang approach may work against Fiji, Vanuatu and at OFC Nations Cup, it is awful to watch, doesn't inspire me and isn't sustainable at the next level.

I agree with this - I'm no fan of Anfony, but two wins out of two (both comfortable by the sounds off it - I don't have Sky) and qualification for both the 3rd round of WCQ and the semis of the ONC in the bag. Jobs a good'un.

Just a question about the "crash bang approach" - is playing that way really so bad? I'd prefer the AWs coach to say "we're going to lump it up and get stuck in" rather than "we're going to play out from the back and knock triangles about" as we are never going to play attractive football. It's not in our DNA to play tiki-taka, so why be ashamed of playing hoofball? NZ is, by nature/design, a fairly aggressive country - our main two male sports are rugby and league, and that physicality spreads into other sports. Even netball is all elbows and collisions. So why not the AWs?

For as long as I have a clear memory (going back to the mid-80s) our version of playing out from the back is just to knock it around the central defenders, then whack it up for some big cod to get hold off, with any scraps picked up by our midfielders. (the only real clear match I have of this not being the case was vs Italy in the WC, though no doubt someone will correct me......) So as long as we have a coach who is honest about it, and we learn to use that game play as a strength, is it such a big deal?

I mean, all we do now is play that way but we try and fool people by saying that we are trying to play the proper way

(don't get me wrong, I'd love to see us play "ole!" football......I just don't believe we will ever change our basic predisposition to kick the fudge out of it)

There are a number of problems with the crash bang approach.

Firstly it simply doesnt work when you come up with more skillful opponents. Higher quality defenders find it relatively easy to defend against.  Even with who we are playing right now 90% of all our long balls are wasted, we basically lose possession. Im not exagerating here, simply count them. Every long aerial ball played forward is needing to be controlled first and then a decision made as to what to do next with the ball.  With the improvements in fitness and technique from the last 30 years there is less time to do this when we hit the better quality opposition.

There is a significant difference between playing out from the back and passing the ball with purpose and intent. Its not about playing Ole football, its about moving the ball and in doing so moving opposition players around to create spaces and time to get shots on goal.

Our kids are all learning to play with the ball on the deck, they are all learning how to keep possession, how to move the ball around to create spaces and to look to play forward where possible.

However once they start to hit the senior ranks they are then being asked to do something that they havent been learning to do. Simply madness. Our lives are ruled by habits and long ball football is going against the good habits we are trying to instill in our young players.

I completely disagree with the idea that we cant change from our old methods (the kids are already doing that at junior and youth level). I absolutely disagree with the idea that because we have a strong rugby culture we should follow a more physical approach. Its interesting because one of the great things the AB's do relates to player development and player centered coaching. At the higher levels they employ mental skills coaches such as Gilbert Enoka and have a far more cerebral approach to  rugby than we in the football community are either aware of or willing to admit to.

Football has changed significantly since the days of physical power and long ball football were doing well. 

I think that our players are actually capable of a better passing game if only they are trusted and given time to practice it. I believe we could have beaten Fiji by a bigger score if we had played more with the ball on the deck. 

Unfortunately the results will end up masking future problems against higher quality teams. The long ball approach wont work against them so why practice it now against lesser teams.

The kids are not learning to play with the kick the fudge out of it approach so its simply idiotic to then make them change to that at senior level.

At every FIFA WC tournament we go to at age group and senior level, both men and women the FIFA technical committee produce technical and tactical analysis of every team competing.  Not once in the 20 years FIFA have been doing this have FIFA ever made a mention of our technical capability or of individual players. They mention every time that we work hard and are organised. We never progress to later stages of these tournaments however every single side that does progress has a mention in these technical reports of players technique, skill and individual star performances.

Long ball crash and bang hasnt worked internationally for a very long time. Its a shame we are too stupid to work this out and change at senior level. The kids show we can do it if you ever have a look at how they play when young sides go to Europe to take play. There are WYNRs and other clubs u15's, U13's, U12's teams which are getting results against English club academy sides. We can change at senior level, we could play a passing game if the players were allowed to.

Its simply moronic.

Marquee
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about 13 years

kwlap wrote:
Is there a highlights package going around anywhere?

Here is OFC highlights

WeeNix
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about 9 years

I'm not saying I like Route One football, or that it is effective how we play it - what I'm suggesting is that right now we are playing Kick it up the Guts footy, so let's just be honest about it - and if the coaches cant/won't change the style, we may as well get good at it and work out how to play to our strengths.

My theory is that we wont ever be able to beat a skilled team trying to play skilled football. We'll be at a gunfight with a soggy biscuit.......but that maybe (maybe!) if how we play is refined and targeted, then that could be the way to make international inroads. If everyone plays the same way (one-two touch, knock it about, possession based football) then maybe (maybe!) a different style is needed.

I'm not seeing the point in being ashamed to play direct football - as long as it's played well.

(again, I would love to see us playing quick counter attacking football)

Marquee
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about 13 years

Looking at video coverage of games last night, looks like the pitch is starting to get a bit cut up especially in the goal mouth. Wonder how it is going to handle the rest of the games still to come.

WeeNix
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Rusty Dunks wrote:

I'm not saying I like Route One football, or that it is effective how we play it - what I'm suggesting is that right now we are playing Kick it up the Guts footy, so let's just be honest about it - and if the coaches cant/won't change the style, we may as well get good at it and work out how to play to our strengths.

My theory is that we wont ever be able to beat a skilled team trying to play skilled football. We'll be at a gunfight with a soggy biscuit.......but that maybe (maybe!) if how we play is refined and targeted, then that could be the way to make international inroads. If everyone plays the same way (one-two touch, knock it about, possession based football) then maybe (maybe!) a different style is needed.

I'm not seeing the point in being ashamed to play direct football - as long as it's played well.

(again, I would love to see us playing quick counter attacking football)

I disagree that we wont ever be able to beat skilled teams with skilled football. We could do it if we were willing to head down that path.

We are heading down that path with the kids so why are they then asked to do something they havent been taught once they get to senior level?

We have junior and youth coaches teaching us to play one way and then senior coaches reverting to an archaic style that hasnt worked once the players hit senior teams.

Crash and bang died decades ago. It hasnt been successful for us, we continually fail at it so why do we keep doing the same thing.

Its not the reason we are winning at the OFC Nations cup, we are winning because we have players generally a step above the OFC nations.

Our kids are able to beat English pro club academy sides passing the ball around so why on earth couldnt they do it at senior level? I dont get your logic in saying we cant do it. the kids are already trying.

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It's also not an either/or situation. There isn't a binary choice in tactical approach between how we're playing now and playing like Spain c2010. I still think that a direct, on the ground, counterattacking football utilising our quick skillful wide players and Wood's goalbox poaching skills would be a good way to play. That's reliant on neither long balls to the big man or playing keep away in possession. 

Also, again, it's not just that we've chosen to use these tactics but that other aspects of our setup are clearly flawed. If we were going to choose to play this way against a decent side we would have to be very confident in our defences ability to absorb sustained pressure without periods of possession to have a breather and reset the shape. I really cannot see that happening any time soon based on current evidence.

Marquee
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What we are doing is trying to derisk, we are overly conservative because there is too much to lose, but any one will tell you that is just a path to a show death.

WeeNix
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about 9 years

I have to say it doesn't matter if we play "nice" or "ugly" football if we are shark at either - maybe we have failed in the past at ugly football is because we implemented a poor plan to go along with it (eg: how do we defend without possession? What do we do with the ball when we get it into attacking areas?)

Along with that, we can play nice football and still get stuffed if there is no plan or nous to go with it.

I'm going to set up my Subbuteo table and work out the best way off playing! It's flicking good fun

WeeNix
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about 9 years

Turns out a 2-3-3-2 formation, with the goalie waving his hands in the air like he just don't care is the best

valeo
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Legend
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about 17 years

Hard News wrote:

I'm not entirely anti the concept but this isn't the vision we were sold by Hudson when he signed...

Perhaps Hudson has now realised what he's actually dealing with.

If he tried to play it around more and lost to Vanuatu, you'd all be calling for his head. 

Marquee
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over 14 years

Yakcall wrote:

Thought this was interesting from Piney on twitter, we haven't really seen a change under Hudson.

First 8 games as All Whites coach... 

Herbert: W3 D1 L4 GF 8 GA 11 

Hudson: W3 D2 L3 GF 12 GA 9

Opposition was

Herbert: Australia, Malaysia x2, Chile x2, Hungary, Georgia, Estonia

Hudson: Uzbekistan, China, Thailand, South Korea, Myanmar, Oman, Fiji, Vanuatu

Interesting But I Would Guess Those Teams Herbert played would  on average by higher ranked than Anyone's eight
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valeo wrote:

Hard News wrote:

I'm not entirely anti the concept but this isn't the vision we were sold by Hudson when he signed...

Perhaps Hudson has now realised what he's actually dealing with.

If he tried to play it around more and lost to Vanuatu, you'd all be calling for his head. 

let's not guild the lily here. A decent central league team would have given Vanuatu a run for there money
Starting XI
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JasperNix wrote:

Intersting match. 

Reinforced the following for me;

1) Fenton is not a right wing back's muddy boot. He's a player full of heart and a good engine but crossing is very poor and doesn't overlap or beat players like the top HAL wing backs do. Gave away a deadset penalty. 

2) Prelevic. The Aussie Prem leagues obviously are a similar tempo to the ASB. Got caught in possession too many times. Just too slow. Reminds me of the Kingz defenders of the early 2000's - are you Ricki Van Steeden in disguise? Was very surprised Hudson have him another full game. WeeMav needs to drop back into central midfield.

3) Kosta. Class. Just does things at pace. Whether it be passing, dribbling etc. Watching him alongside Rojas and co highlighted to me what a good signing he'll be for the Nix.

4) Back 3 or 5. Lack of wheels. A real lack of wheels. Boxall to step into CB to address this. Doyle to play left wing back as offers more going forward. Missing Roux big time. 

5) Rory a very smart player but lost all his gas (not that he had too much to begin with). Will need to retain him for set pieces but won't offer much in transition other than a chest down to oncoming winger. 

6) WeeMac shaping up as our key player this tournie. Great free kick. Needs to get the ball to feet and construct the play. 

great post

i do think rory ir our best option though, he's been doing very well

Starting XI
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almost 17 years

Yakcall wrote:

Thought this was interesting from Piney on twitter, we haven't really seen a change under Hudson.

First 8 games as All Whites coach... 

Herbert: W3 D1 L4 GF 8 GA 11 

Hudson: W3 D2 L3 GF 12 GA 9

Opposition was

Herbert: Australia, Malaysia x2, Chile x2, Hungary, Georgia, Estonia

Hudson: Uzbekistan, China, Thailand, South Korea, Myanmar, Oman, Fiji, Vanuatu

Looking at teams played, we've gone backwards a little

Legend
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sthn.jeff wrote:

Yakcall wrote:

Thought this was interesting from Piney on twitter, we haven't really seen a change under Hudson.

First 8 games as All Whites coach... 

Herbert: W3 D1 L4 GF 8 GA 11 

Hudson: W3 D2 L3 GF 12 GA 9

Opposition was

Herbert: Australia, Malaysia x2, Chile x2, Hungary, Georgia, Estonia

Hudson: Uzbekistan, China, Thailand, South Korea, Myanmar, Oman, Fiji, Vanuatu

Interesting But I Would Guess Those Teams Herbert played would  on average by higher ranked than Anyone's eight

Going game by game in chronological order:

Australia > Uzbekistan

Malaysia < China

Malaysia = Thailand

Chile > South Korea

Chile > Myanmar

Hungary > Oman

Georgia > Fiji

Estonia > Vanuatu

Next up for Ricki was the small matter of Brazil. Next up for Hudson is the Solomon Islands.

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It's also not an either/or situation. There isn't a binary choice in tactical approach between how we're playing now and playing like Spain c2010. I still think that a direct, on the ground, counterattacking football utilising our quick skillful wide players and Wood's goalbox poaching skills would be a good way to play. That's reliant on neither long balls to the big man or playing keep away in possession. 

Also, again, it's not just that we've chosen to use these tactics but that other aspects of our setup are clearly flawed. If we were going to choose to play this way against a decent side we would have to be very confident in our defences ability to absorb sustained pressure without periods of possession to have a breather and reset the shape. I really cannot see that happening any time soon based on current evidence.

Ramon's been teaching ACFC how to do this as prep for the World Club Cup for the last half dozen years. Central with their Kiwi kids now play possession footie too. If Ramon was given charge of the AW's you'd see a change pretty quickly IMO.

First Team Squad
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over 14 years

Buffon II wrote:

Going game by game in chronological order:

Australia > Uzbekistan

Malaysia < China

Malaysia = Thailand

Chile < South Korea

Chile > Myanmar

Hungary > Oman

Georgia > Fiji

Estonia > Vanuatu

Next up for Ricki was the small matter of Brazil. Next up for Hudson is the Solomon Islands.

Pedantic change, in 2005 Chile was ranked 64th vs 2015 Korea at 51st.

Edit: actually the game was sometime between when Chile rocketed up to the early 40's so its more likely Chile = Korea.

Legend
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over 16 years

djtim3000 wrote:

Buffon II wrote:

Going game by game in chronological order:

Australia > Uzbekistan

Malaysia < China

Malaysia = Thailand

Chile < South Korea

Chile > Myanmar

Hungary > Oman

Georgia > Fiji

Estonia > Vanuatu

Next up for Ricki was the small matter of Brazil. Next up for Hudson is the Solomon Islands.

Pedantic change, in 2006 Chile was ranked 64th vs 2015 Korea at 51st.

Agree. Not pedantic, but accurate. Also that Thailand is Thailand 'C'

Starting XI
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almost 16 years

MetalLegNZ wrote:

I can't wait for our strongest team to play, but i imagine squaddies will get a run for the next game with semi guaranteed.

Ideally I would like to see:

             Marinovic

Boxall, Themi, Adams, Doyle

           

         Mc G - Tuiloma

Kosta Fallon Wood Patterson

That side has better players  - though too many strikers.

When you look at the many players unavailable due to injury etc.it does give some hope for the future after this tournament.

This could be a possible squad:

                                              Moss

                  Roux        Boxall          Reid        Colvey

          Thomas      Themi    Tuiloma      Wee Mac

                           Wood            Kosta

Subs:

Marinovic, Gleeson, Rojas, Smeltz, Patterson, Henry Cameron (Blackpool), Brockie, Ryan de Vries, Doyle, Adams, Fenton, Mitchell (if he progresses at Red Star Belgrade)

That's a whole different back line, apart from Colvey, to what's been starting at the current OFC tournament.

Left back remains a problem with both Colvey and Doyle seeming a bit suspect. But I don't see any better options.

With other players becoming available later this year, there would be no need for the likes of Moses Dyer, Clayton Lewis or Hudson-Wihongi. I hope Ryan de Vries gets his eligibility status cleared up soon.

  

TV
On probation
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over 13 years
Boxalls a righ back now. Exposed against teams in early games at CB at supersport. Success at RB.
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i didn't know that but it sound perfectly sensible to me that this change should be forced on him. IMO he would be an outstanding right back for us. 

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almost 16 years

TV wrote:
Boxalls a righ back now. Exposed against teams in early games at CB at supersport. Success at RB.

If only he could play at left back!

Be interesting to see if Boxall starts vs. Solomons on Saturday night - and if Hudson prefers him at centre-back or right-back.

He'll be a key defender for NZ for years to come considering he can play both right back and centre back if necessary.

If he's no longer useful as a centre-back, then Themi would be the only good option to partner Reid in future.

Opinion Privileges revoked
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over 14 years

valeo wrote:

If he tried to play it around more and lost to Vanuatu, you'd all be calling for his head. 

Everyone's calling for Hudson's head anyway. And will keep doing so as long as he's in the job. Unless we qualify for Russia 2018, and probably even after that. There is literally nothing he could do at this point to restore confidence.

Marquee
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almost 12 years

Everyone is saying how poor the Island teams are... based on what?

How often we see them play in their local competition or are we basing it on the OCL?

Whilst I think we have been poor are the Island teams really that bad. New Caledonia have a few players in pro clubs now for example and could be more global than a few earlier incarnations of NZ teams where only the Rufers were practically playing abroad.

Jaume
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WeeNix
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970
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about 8 years

Jerzy Merino wrote:

It's also not an either/or situation. There isn't a binary choice in tactical approach between how we're playing now and playing like Spain c2010. I still think that a direct, on the ground, counterattacking football utilising our quick skillful wide players and Wood's goalbox poaching skills would be a good way to play. That's reliant on neither long balls to the big man or playing keep away in possession. 

Also, again, it's not just that we've chosen to use these tactics but that other aspects of our setup are clearly flawed. If we were going to choose to play this way against a decent side we would have to be very confident in our defences ability to absorb sustained pressure without periods of possession to have a breather and reset the shape. I really cannot see that happening any time soon based on current evidence.

Ramon's been teaching ACFC how to do this as prep for the World Club Cup for the last half dozen years. Central with their Kiwi kids now play possession footie too. If Ramon was given charge of the AW's you'd see a change pretty quickly IMO.

While true, why would Tribulietx waste his time at the AW's? He's happy at Auckland City and winning continental titles year after year, as well as making the Club World Cup every year. Looks like hoofball is here to stay.

Marquee
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over 13 years

Jaume wrote:

Jerzy Merino wrote:

It's also not an either/or situation. There isn't a binary choice in tactical approach between how we're playing now and playing like Spain c2010. I still think that a direct, on the ground, counterattacking football utilising our quick skillful wide players and Wood's goalbox poaching skills would be a good way to play. That's reliant on neither long balls to the big man or playing keep away in possession. 

Also, again, it's not just that we've chosen to use these tactics but that other aspects of our setup are clearly flawed. If we were going to choose to play this way against a decent side we would have to be very confident in our defences ability to absorb sustained pressure without periods of possession to have a breather and reset the shape. I really cannot see that happening any time soon based on current evidence.

Ramon's been teaching ACFC how to do this as prep for the World Club Cup for the last half dozen years. Central with their Kiwi kids now play possession footie too. If Ramon was given charge of the AW's you'd see a change pretty quickly IMO.

While true, why would Tribulietx waste his time at the AW's? He's happy at Auckland City and winning continental titles year after year, as well as making the Club World Cup every year. Looks like hoofball is here to stay.

he applied for the job when it came up, also applied for the Phoenix.
Marquee
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over 13 years

Doloras wrote:

valeo wrote:

If he tried to play it around more and lost to Vanuatu, you'd all be calling for his head. 

Everyone's calling for Hudson's head anyway. And will keep doing so as long as he's in the job. Unless we qualify for Russia 2018, and probably even after that. There is literally nothing he could do at this point to restore confidence.

a good power point presentation should do the trick. Otherwise I actually don't blame him at all, it's hard to build a team with a possession based style without game time and I have no doubt nzf promised him more than he's getting.

Our first team only for together after the second game of the tournament FFs and haven't played together in more than a year, route one is about our only option.

I bet the island teams got in a few training games before the tournament. We're most likely going to start players for the first time in the finals. It's insane.

Marquee
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over 13 years

Ryan wrote:

Jaume wrote:

Jerzy Merino wrote:

It's also not an either/or situation. There isn't a binary choice in tactical approach between how we're playing now and playing like Spain c2010. I still think that a direct, on the ground, counterattacking football utilising our quick skillful wide players and Wood's goalbox poaching skills would be a good way to play. That's reliant on neither long balls to the big man or playing keep away in possession. 

Also, again, it's not just that we've chosen to use these tactics but that other aspects of our setup are clearly flawed. If we were going to choose to play this way against a decent side we would have to be very confident in our defences ability to absorb sustained pressure without periods of possession to have a breather and reset the shape. I really cannot see that happening any time soon based on current evidence.

Ramon's been teaching ACFC how to do this as prep for the World Club Cup for the last half dozen years. Central with their Kiwi kids now play possession footie too. If Ramon was given charge of the AW's you'd see a change pretty quickly IMO.

While true, why would Tribulietx waste his time at the AW's? He's happy at Auckland City and winning continental titles year after year, as well as making the Club World Cup every year. Looks like hoofball is here to stay.

he applied for the job when it came up, also applied for the Phoenix.

...and the Roar; clearly he has ambitions.

Lawyerish
1.8K
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4.8K
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over 13 years

Doloras wrote:

valeo wrote:

If he tried to play it around more and lost to Vanuatu, you'd all be calling for his head. 

Everyone's calling for Hudson's head anyway. And will keep doing so as long as he's in the job. Unless we qualify for Russia 2018, and probably even after that. There is literally nothing he could do at this point to restore confidence.

He could wear tighter pants for you?

Opinion Privileges revoked
4.7K
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9.8K
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over 14 years

Doloras wrote:

Everyone's calling for Hudson's head anyway. And will keep doing so as long as he's in the job. Unless we qualify for Russia 2018, and probably even after that. There is literally nothing he could do at this point to restore confidence.

He could wear tighter pants for you?

Well, that might make me confident about what religion he is.

First Team Squad
280
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1.6K
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about 12 years

Just caught up with this tonight.

Seriously thought it was OK.

Weak in fullbacks.

We knew we had no midfield, might need to find some more solutions when other teams start dominating between our forward group and defenders.

Phoenix Academy
270
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400
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over 9 years

Jerzy Merino wrote:

It's also not an either/or situation. There isn't a binary choice in tactical approach between how we're playing now and playing like Spain c2010. I still think that a direct, on the ground, counterattacking football utilising our quick skillful wide players and Wood's goalbox poaching skills would be a good way to play. That's reliant on neither long balls to the big man or playing keep away in possession. 

Also, again, it's not just that we've chosen to use these tactics but that other aspects of our setup are clearly flawed. If we were going to choose to play this way against a decent side we would have to be very confident in our defences ability to absorb sustained pressure without periods of possession to have a breather and reset the shape. I really cannot see that happening any time soon based on current evidence.

Ramon's been teaching ACFC how to do this as prep for the World Club Cup for the last half dozen years. Central with their Kiwi kids now play possession footie too. If Ramon was given charge of the AW's you'd see a change pretty quickly IMO.

This! Some very smart posts. Agree wholeheartedly about the German counter-attacking style probably suiting us against the better sides. And by this I don't mean park the bus and knock it long to a lone striker. It needs pacey players (not just up front but everywhere- esp full backs) and almost OCD attention to defensive shape. Also while our strikers have pace to play this style the more critical element is pace of ball movement in transition which is where our quality of mids let us down. Wee Mac will need to play as an 8 and Tuiloma or whoever else is at 6 will need to lift their speed of decision making. This style of play doesn't suit a Themi in midfield. But I think we all know the AWs will never have 50% of the ball so we may as well adapt... 

Re Ramon - I agree he is excellent at getting ACFC to keep their shape. Obviously they are not playing German style but Spanish style possession football but I get the feeling Ramon knows how to shake it up if needed. Nothing to back that up but just gut feel. 

Incidentally i think the Nix need to look at this style of play.  Adelaide were superb at breaking out quickly through the thirds and not dwelling on the ball. The Nix just became too predictable and teams could sit back. 

One in a million
4.2K
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9.5K
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about 17 years

I prefer Doyle to what I've seen from Colvey

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