OFC Nations Cup 2016 - vs New Caledonia | Wed 8 Jun | 5.50pm | SS Popup

The issue is, our luck has held... so far... 

We all know what can happen, a dodgy refs call, a deflection, a "Totori" scores a screamer, our goalkeeper has a howler.

The way we are playing is just inviting one or all of these things to happen.

Better than expected tbh. 

Our midfield wouldn't know that of course, as they have spent the entire tournament gazing skyward as another mis-directed pass is lumped forward.

Once upon a time, we were probably equipped to play long ball football, but for the last 10 years or so, the whole focus of Junior Football through all the acadamy's , FTC, NTC etc has been  to get the ball on the deck and play football.

To ask them to change on a whim to something foreign to what has been drilled into them for years is like asking an English Rugby team to play running rugby  

Exactly, its moronic. We have invested heavily into a program to move our football forward but the man in charge of the top team is doing the exact opposite of our relatively new approach to the game.

Were NC's players better man for man than ours? A couple of them maybe but overall no however they were capable of attempting successfully to play a style of football which is in the long run more productive. Their failing was they simply couldnt score.

Our players are perfectly capable of playing the way NC played and if they had of done that i am pretty sure we could have won that comfortably.

We scraped a 1-0 win against a team made up largely of amateur part time players because our coach thinks its the 60's when his dad was playing.

nzf instructions to Hudson before he was employed:

1  we need dollars

2 win in the jungle at all costs

3 go to the confeds cup collect the dollars

4 to hell with what damage is done or what the matches looks like

fixed

As ugly as this has been, hopefully the ends will justify the means. I would like to think (but could be completely wrong) that Hudson has made a call that with the squad this "style" of play was the best option for us to win the tournament, and his job ultimately is to win.

It is frustrating to see players like Marco and Kosta on the bench while Prelevic plays, or more to the point stands around not doing much useful. We are also playing way too deep, but again I'm assuming there is a reason for this, ie we are so slow at the back we don't want to get caught out. As a consequence there are massive gaps everywhere and Wood is left very isolated. 

For the final I would like to see Tuiloma in defence - until he matures and gets regular game time somewhere he is not good enough in midfield -, with Hudson-Wihongi in midfield, as he at least seems to understand the DM role. 

Let's just hope we get through this somehow, and can then sit back and watch the 2 good tournaments for a month with a bit less angst!

I tend to agree with most of this. There is the old saying of how its hard to climb out of the swamp when the alligators are grabbing your arse and there is a degree of that here. We really have to win these games to get into a position here we get a decent income stream to further fund the game. I'd dearly love us to be winning with style but am just happy we are winning at this point. Be fudgeed if I know what the answer is because [last might at least and maybe in the final] our opponents could easily of beaten us and no one would of thought that they didn't deserve to on their performance.

Amazing what confidence can do too isn't it? I've seen Bill and Marco play extremely poorly in this tournament and it is a reflection on perhaps why their current clubs have farmed them out to lesser leagues.

The thing about this end justifies the means argument, I sort of get.

However,  it shows a complete lack of faith in everything that has been done from the first kicks football up. How can we not back ourselves to win playing something close to a system the players know? Some will say Honiara Horror, but the schedule has not been anything like that. There were four days between our last pool game and the Semi and 3 days between Pool games.

Hudson cries about the lack of games, well here was five games in a short space of time that should have been used for entrenching systems and processes. 

As it stands, we will probably win it, then have to start from scratch prior to the Confeds Cup, with the usual piss poor build up that NZF will give the team, and then we will have Anfony crying to the Media when we get humped that he did not have sufficient games to aloow him to implement his systems.

Take offence.  I've kept at Cap 14 and I never threw one in like that ;-)

To say that Hudson-Wihongi understands the DM role is a little mis-leading! He understands it the way that Auckland City play. That role is probably the easiest on the pitch in the City set-up as there is very little pressure on him in that role for that team. However once you step outside the comfort of ACFC he is simply not up to the level required. He was only on the pitch for a minute last night before he fouled someone that nearly started a fight! Under pressure I think he will wilt badly!

I don't really know why Prelevic is even there. the best two young kiwi midfielders are lewis and Burfoot. Lewis was there but then wasn't due to a dodgy asthma test and Burfoot was left out of the squad because Hudson prefers Prelevic!!!! At least these two will ty to pass to someone in the same coloured shirt

come on. tahw took a card for the team in the dying minutes. if he hadn't then I think questions should have been asked.

No, his time has passed and he was lucky with that philosophy for the world cup as the balance was about right but not so much later when he was trying to put Killen as dm. I'm just saying that Hudson should be looking at the best players and figure out how to get them together rather than whatever he's trying now.

Quote: “And all this brings me to the question of what's the actual point of all this? Are we just trying to scrape through any old way we can, get a bit of cash from the Confeds and World Cup qualifiers, just so we can go and do the same old depressing cycle again? Or are we actually trying to grow the game in this country?”

I totally agree with your overall point here, but have a real issue with the concept of “growing the game”. It’s a phrase we hear a lot, and there’s an idea that if something is large it must be good/better/sustainable etc (feel free to insert genitalia gag here). From my own point of view, I’m more interested in football in NZ being in good health rather than growing because they’re not the same thing – and yet the health is diabolical.

We constantly hear that junior and social numbers are growing etc – but how well do those people get looked after? For the large amounts of money they contribute to be involved every year, what do they actually get in return? For those who participate as spectators or supporters, how well are they catered for/respected/entertained? I know “growth” may equate with increased funding, but I’d have to ask right now if giving this current admin more money to play with is going to improve anything in any way shape or form?

What if the sport’s focus was actually positive consolidation? What if they actually focussed on quality programmes, quality products, quality staffing, professionalism, sustainability, a working fax, and the sorts of things that might actually make the people involved feel valued and give them a sense of enjoyment/reward? If the sport was healthy like this, then I’m imagining sponsors and other corporate involvement would follow.

Back when the Small Whites programme was launched with Ryan as the figurehead, it got panned by a range of “experts”. But what it did have going for it was 1) ordinary parents felt their kids actually got something in return for their involvement, and 2) four major sponsor brands saw a product they could hook on to and put in quite a lot of money.  Do we have anything doing that now??

I know there’s a lot of good stuff going on in various areas, but the overall admin/running of the game situation at present is one of the worst I can recall (and that’s up against some pretty stiff opposition over the years).  If things were to “grow” at present it’d either mask the rubbish going on, or simply create more of the bad situation.

Before we focus on growing, the house needs to put in order.  As a life-long football fan, I couldn’t care less if football is popular or not.  I don’t care if some rugby-head munter bags the sport I love, even if I can appreciate his.  I don’t feel more validated as a football aficionado if more people agree with me.  All I want is for football people in NZ to have a good quality product to experience and enjoy – whether that be as a player, spectator, coach, administrator, volunteer, or some combination of those.

Some people argue that growth means more potential good players/athletes are attracted to the game, meaning our national teams improve etc – but surely youngsters are more likely to be attracted by a quality viable experience and pathways, rather than this current shambles and the past spectre of paying to represent their country?

If the numbers of people ‘consuming’ football in one way or another increases, then fine – but shouldn’t that be a by-product rather than an aim?  Surely the aim should be to have the sport in good health at as many levels as possible – because history would suggest that when it’s not, then it’s unlikely to capitalise on the opportunities that come from major outlier events, such as World Cup qualification.  In the last seven years, we qualified for a World Cup, drew with the World champions, bagged $10million from another playoff – and as someone pointed out, this week suggests we’ve hurtled backwards.  It’s fine for a World Cup to be the outlier rather than the norm – but should the norm be an inept admin and the dross we saw last night??

Rant over, apologies it's so long...

I never ever ever ever ever ever....[goes and makes a cup of tea]....ever ever ever ...[smokes a pipe]...ever ever ever...[pours a whisky]...though Hudson would end up making Herbert look competent.

better make it a double because it is happening.

What are the ends though?  Go to the confeds, get embarrassed, get embarrassed in a WC play-off and then start another 4 year cycle?  Literally the only positive from that would be collecting some cash for getting on the pitch at the Confeds.  That is it.  No advancement at all

Maybe just maybe half the team does not want to be there. Hudson needs to snap them out of there laziness or question himself why these guys are so crud. 

Yes, motivating the players is exactly what he is employed to do

Wish I could 'this' 10 times - like I said, I wouldn't mind an uninspiring, pragmatic, approach so much if it was actually effective. But at least two of those wins (and last night was the epitome of this) were down to pure luck, and absolutely nothing else. Which is fine as long as those lucky breaks go your ways, but that doesn't happen all the time, and it might not happen on Saturday.

Not to mention that having to rely on luck in games against Island teams (and no disrespect to them, I've enjoyed watching them play) is a very sad indictment of where we are at the moment.

By the ends I mean we qualify for Confeds Cup 2017 and can start planning for that. I'm not expecting a miracle turn around but if my 2 options are a) play ugly and qualify for the above or b) play well and not qualify I'll always take option a. I totally agree that we should be doing way better, but hopefully without the fear of failure (ie Horror in Honiara) the improvements will begin. 

Why do we have to exclude the option where we play well and qualify?

I dont see any good reason why we couldnt have taken the same approach to football that NC did and still win. In fact i am sure we would have won comfortably if we had tried to play the way they did. Overall we have better quality players than NC and could have beaten all the teams here if the coaching staff actually allowed the players to play the way they have been since they were kids.

I have been watching some of those players since they were 8 year olds. They havent been taught to play this way, its alien to them.

People mentioning how poor Tuiloma has been but he simply hasnt been allowed to play the way he has since he was a kid. Do you think he has to play this style even in the lower French league he is playing in?

We are playing ugly and just winning but we are easily capable of playing more intelligently and winning easier than whats happening. I utterly reject this idea of having to play this way to ensure qualification. We would be qualifying with more comfort if we were playing a style of football that suits the players better and also fits the way they have been taught to play over the last decade.

Worst AW coach since that irish guy who spent more time playing golf than coaching. Forget his name right now.

I kind of hope we lose just so the boards hand is forced and we can see some change. I'd hope the entire board would resign as would the senior management at nzf.

Sorry but regardless of tactics, or how you were coached as a kid, if a simple pass is on they should be able to see it and give it.

Our squad are either full-time professionals or are picked ahead off full-time professionals, just hacking the ball as far away as possible  as soon as possible is not acceptable  - even if your keeper has blinder and their's lets in howler somehow letting you scrape a win.

Smiling Joe McGrath

 

Pour another one, because on top of that Andy Martin is making Graeme Seatter look like a visionary.

 

Yes because there's precedent for that!!!?!?!?!?! 

something about last straws and backs.

Hoping that people resign out of shame has no reward. You've got to be running an insurgent campaign within the organisation, to put pressure on and to provide an alternative leadership.

Maybe Fred wasn't that bad #bringbackfred

Problem is politics takes over - board selected Martin and Hudson, admitting they are failing means a big part of their governance role was a failure 

I juts think the likelihood of coming up with a brand new style of play between now and then is....challenging.  This is where we are right now

Although we are missing quite a few players. not that I'm defending Hudson.

Apart from the two missing defenders are any other players going to add much more than we currently have at the tournament.. 

Ryan Thomas, Shane Smeltz, Tyler Boyd, Storm Roux, Declan Wynne, James Musa, Craig Henderson, Clayton Lewis....

Wynne, Henry Cameron

Would Boyd even get picked?

Trying to guess who Hudson is going to pick is hard... because so much of it seems to be from left field.

Prevalic got cut from the u20's but one year later makes the grade and starts 3 games and gets picked ahead of Kosta / Marco / Brockie players with international and professional experience, not to mention we have to forget about the players who didn't even get a look in.

Brotherton has 3 poor games in a row where as T.W.H plays a great game and can't get picked.

Covley has been pants, but still starts??

I'm all for winning and choosing the style best suited for it, but we were just so bad its not funny and the selections make it look like he either has no clue, or clearly has favourites that he is willing to jepordise the NZ team to keep them happy.

Compared to Prelavic.... pretty well anyone who can tie a boot lace

Yes - some of those were injured but some of those names weren't picked by Hudson. You can hardly let him off picking players who are available (and presumably available for selection)

Reid and Thomas are obviously the two big ones. Keat, Henderson, and James would make the midfield more suited for international football, but Hudson doesn't seem keen on them, so probably can't really count them as losses.