Ufuk Talay - Ufuked off to Sydney FC

kungfu panda

I could start my usual all over again, but I won't. I don't think Talay stuffed up the recruitment. I think we have the best team in the league. I really like Kraev and Zawada, I like Kosta. I'm not sure that we've seen enough of Sasse to know if he's a dud. I think that taking South Americans is always a risk, they need to be scouted extremely well because there are so many Professional footballers in South America, a lot of them are really not good (it was happening a lot in Europe).
For me Talay struggles to understand how to put his players into an effective team. In my view the 2 best games we've had this season were the 2 Melbourne City games (1 in the cup). We need to revisit those line ups. 

I wouldn't be starting:
Ball 
Ugarkovic 
Payne
Sasse
Kosta?
I would be starting:
Waine
Old
Pennington
Laws
Elliot

Pennington for Captain too right? and he'll play at the back on his own as a rush keeper too.

kungfu panda

• lthomas20

  kungfu panda

  I could start my usual all over again, but I won't. I don't think Talay stuffed up the recruitment. I think we have the best team in the league. I really like Kraev and Zawada, I like Kosta. I'm not sure that we've seen enough of Sasse to know if he's a dud. I think that taking South Americans is always a risk, they need to be scouted extremely well because there are so many Professional footballers in South America, a lot of them are really not good (it was happening a lot in Europe).
  For me Talay struggles to understand how to put his players into an effective team. In my view the 2 best games we've had this season were the 2 Melbourne City games (1 in the cup). We need to revisit those line ups. 
  
  I wouldn't be starting:
  Ball 
  Ugarkovic 
  Payne
  Sasse
  Kosta?
  I would be starting:
  Waine
  Old
  Pennington
  Laws
  Elliot

  And we all know you're utterly delusional

• Fine. Now what part of what I said was Delusional?

"I think we have the best team in the league" - for a start, then you wrap up the madness nicely by suggesting you wouldnt start the man who'd be first on most peoples XI (Ball).

That's true. I like Ball too. I feel that his toe injury has made him a 50 minute player rather than a 90 minute player. I would be very eager to get him on in the second half. 
My preference though would be to start Waine. He's scored 3 goals in maybe 40% of the minutes this season. He's young and with consistent matches will perform better and better. The club wants to sell him for 7 figures, for that to happen he needs to be starting.

kungfu panda

That's true. I like Ball too. I feel that his toe injury has made him a 50 minute player rather than a 90 minute player. I would be very eager to get him on in the second half. 
My preference though would be to start Waine. He's scored 3 goals in maybe 40% of the minutes this season. He's young and with consistent matches will perform better and better. The club wants to sell him for 7 figures, for that to happen he needs to be starting.

Even with his injury Ball was easily thre best player on the park for most of the end of last season. He deamds attention from defenders and opens up space for the likes of Kraev and Zawada - has to start and play as long as he can. 

Waine scoring 3 goals in a few sub appearances says he's a great impact player. He pops up in the right spot against tiring defences. Will he be able to do that for 90? I dont think so.

kungfu panda

That's true. I like Ball too. I feel that his toe injury has made him a 50 minute player rather than a 90 minute player. I would be very eager to get him on in the second half. 
My preference though would be to start Waine. He's scored 3 goals in maybe 40% of the minutes this season. He's young and with consistent matches will perform better and better. The club wants to sell him for 7 figures, for that to happen he needs to be starting.

You still haven't answered why you think we have the best team in the league.

Let’s be honest, it wasn’t Ball’s best game last week. 

Last week we left Waine, Old, Kosta, Sutton and Van Hattum on the bench. Or Van Hattum didn’t make the squad? All of those players have shown more than Sasse so far. I say so far as players like Hemed took a while to settle in the A league. Sasse clearly hasn’t settled on his first overseas stint.

Doloras thinks Uffie’s got it all wrong. KFPanda thinks we’re the best. 

I certainly lean more towards Panda’s view, but we’ve got to get things running smoothly. 

Do you think the starting 11 is our best? From your replies you think Ball ahead of Kosta and Waine? Zawada does a lot, but needs goal scoring runners and Ball is the same. I don’t think we can start with two guys as strikers whose primary usp isn’t threatening golden boot. Unless we’re getting goals from the 10s and FBs and we’re not losing because our chances aren’t falling to sharpshooters.

I think we’ve got a very good squad that needs amazing management to keep everyone in sync. Let alone pitches with holes and bobbles, mid-season breaks, changes to a ball that moves in the air differently etc etc

But I have to agree given Waine’s form it’s confusing that he can’t get a start. On the other hand, Zawada is impressive and gives it all on the pitch. If it was GF day in Wellington today I don’t know who should start tbh. That seems like good squad depth at the very least.

This is exactly the issue, no one knows what team we will put out - a team and coach tracking well never changes unless forced by injury or suspension. God forbid we ask for some stability. Just pick and stick. Ufuk needs to sort his crap....if he has the ability to, which I have serious doubts over. All hype this guy who bosses the media with excuses and radical views all the time. Has to win games from now on because its getting tiring watching and listening to it all.

Maybe Sasse needed a chance to push for a start or prove himself before he’s essentially sent to purgatory. Maybe it was necessary for Uffie to do that because it’ll clarify one problem with the squad. 

Who’s your first team at this moment? It feels like Uffie wants an almost interchangeable team with strong reserves. So Zawada and Waine are similar, Ball and Kosta, Sutton and Mauragis and so on. This has worked at times, but we are missing familiarity and results. Don’t blame Kosta for wanting his pen but no one should have given him the ball! 

A string of good results and we’re all happy I guess. 

Extremely unfair to slag off Uffie on those grounds. The past seasons he’s had a first team, had runs of results and we’ve lacked depth after injury so that’s impacted us. Or we’ve missed crucial moments or Louis Fenton is allowed to be cleaned out by a defender. 

GK - Sail (no argument)
RB - Elliot?
CB - Wootton, Payne/Laws
LB - Mauragis?

Wings - kraev and Ball/Old
CM - Ugarkovic and Lewis

Forwards - Zawada and Waine/Ball

Any one of the above can be in the starting XI. Kosta can stay as far away as possible for mine, he's had his chance and not shown enough. Sasse I'm not sure about, so sub option for him.

theprof

GK - Sail (no argument)
RB - Elliot?
CB - Wootton, Payne/Laws
LB - Mauragis?

Wings - kraev and Ball/Old
CM - Ugarkovic and Lewis

Forwards - Zawada andWaine/Ball

 Pretty accurate, but Sutton >>>>>>> Mauraguis for me. I'm still puzzled why Sutton got dropped.

Nelfoos

theprof

GK - Sail (no argument)
RB - Elliot?
CB - Wootton, Payne/Laws
LB - Mauragis?

Wings - kraev and Ball/Old
CM - Ugarkovic and Lewis

Forwards - Zawada andWaine/Ball

 Pretty accurate, but Sutton >>>>>>> Mauraguis for me. I'm still puzzled why Sutton got dropped.

oh yeah I forgot about Sutton, he is listed as a midfielder but as an attacking option at the back i like him. 

Kosta has been good for us imo. Makes good runs and despite looking silly at times is also a reasonably good finisher. He’d be in my top team or pushing for it. He’s in better touch than Ball. I’d probably start Waine because his goal scoring has been better than Zawada’s. 

I don’t know if I could have both Urgarkovic and Lewis, unless we start scoring bucketloads or keeping clean sheets. I’d probably start Pennington for Ugarkovic. We’ve coughed up cheap early goals a few times. Rufer returning will be interesting. He’d just developed his game to add a real attacking threat with dribbling and passing. Will be interesting to see how he returns.

Sutton has had patches of indifferent form, but also a great goal and has been a wunderkind for give or take two years. Mauragis has been okay though and I’m glad of that depth. 

In other words probably not so different from the pre-season team against City tbh. 

Disappointed not to see more of Surman as he looked good last season I thought. Better than Payne at CB if I’m being honest and seemed to have a left foot pass too.

I think Uffie wants to start Zawada and Waine, but maybe has concluded he can’t? 

Also possibly that Sasse getting minutes may be to keep Kraev happy, which may be a very key point to the rest of our season! As we noticed those two are close.

But agree, any relatively settled combination is going to be better than one that’s constantly changing.

Explain what you mean by radical views please.

Showtime Nixie

This is exactly the issue, no one knows what team we will put out - a team and coach tracking well never changes unless forced by injury or suspension. God forbid we ask for some stability. Just pick and stick. Ufuk needs to sort his crap....if he has the ability to, which I have serious doubts over. All hype this guy who bosses the media with excuses and radical views all the time. Has to win games from now on because its getting tiring watching and listening to it all.

His reasoning and views on why he put the team out he did - why they played they way they did - why they lost or succumbed to disappointment - what needs to change moving forward or what the league needs to do for him and the Phoenix- always trying to create new controversial talking points to distract from what is present . What he can't believe the other team did or what the referee chose to do. Always wish wash nonsense. I'm not a fan of coaches who don't own the situation. I wise man once said complexity is to hide that you're not good enough and simplicity is genius. 1 win from 7 and not seeing much stability in performance and in interviews, which has raised many doubts for me.

Need to win this week to make it 2/8 because I can't see us winning in Perth in what could be 1/9. - but people will say "but in the past he....." or "we are only # points off 6th"

Obviously want us to do well and win every game and will be happy to eat my words somewhat if things take a turn for the better. But until then I think its fair to raise some concerns.

I think we've recruited well, we're a mid budget team so have to take risks and sometimes they don't pay off.

But, the players have raved about Sasse and he hasn't had minutes on the park to show that worth. It could be he's just really great in training and not in the games but I'll reserve judgement.

Otherwise, things are agonisingly close to clicking.We just need some luck to build that game finishing confidence and we'll go on a run.

I think we recruited well this season with the exception of Sasse. I don't believe Sasse will come right, he isn't a player where you look at him and go he's got x factor we just need to get it to work with the players around him. Sasses's first touch is terrible, his decision making seems at best awful. He is not A-League standard (it was obvious with his first few touches in the first few games) and unless he comes out a completely different player, he will be a liability on the field. 
I was shocked he started, given the quality we had warming the bench. But not every signing will be perfect, and Kraev and Zawada were good finds. Its just that Sasse isn't just a bad signing, he is an unplayable signing. Which of course makes Taley's recruitment look bad, even if Kraev is exceptional. 

Yep, glad we've got both Zawada and Kraev next season.

Sasse might come right, but it may take him longer than other players who’ve played in England or elsewhere overseas. Culture shock and football style are a real thing. But we need someone to do the job now and he’s not shown it yet. 

Take Brockie for example. Thrives on chaos, and scores truckloads when that’s available, but may not do so well as a system player. Though for years was a very decent wide player too. 

I feel 100% certain there is more to see from Sasse than we’ve seen. If he will or should get the chance to show it this season given, as you say, the quality on the bench and ready to go, is a different question. You could argue if we hadn’t signed or persisted with him we might have done better. Conversely, investment of time now may pay off later in this season or next if he’s here next year. 

That’s the manager’s job I guess. 

If I’m being pessimistic, he’ll show a little at the end of the season when it’s not really useful and then have a blinder for some other A league team next year… but I usually try to be overly optimistic with sport. It makes it much more fun when it comes true.

It was obvious in the last game that he was walking on eggshells trying not to make mistakes, which he mostly didn’t and it seemed at times like he was looking for a give and go that the other players didn’t understand. He worked himself in shooting position, but lacked the confidence to have a crack. A few things go right- a tap in, a few nice passes or he beats a few players, maybe he’ll be ready sooner. 

Uffie has a lot of credit in the bank if you ask me. Very few managers in the world ( probably none in fact) get every single transfer signing work out wonderfully. His past history of signings has been excellent. Sasse is the only one still to prove himself as being at least a useful player this season. Our squad is very strong, if you look at the strength we have on the bench. You need a strong squad to win the league over a season, not just a strong eleven, so I think he has, as usual, done a good job. 
The defence needed working on, and I think the last game showed that it was functioning better.  

Virtually everyone here was saying before the season started that the recruitment was botched - no import CB, one too many imports up front. And so it has proved; we've been caught out time and time again because our defence is leaky as shark. And everyone else who was saying it has gone quiet and is attacking me for saying it now?

That said, I can't agree with the argument that "Talay never fields the same team twice" is necessarily a bad thing. I've got a long enough memory that I heard people saying "Talay sticks with the same players all the time even when they're not performing" as a criticism. Let's go with the simplest: the team aren't gelling because it's the wrong players, and that's Talay's responsibility.

Don’t think we’re attacking you, just got a different view. Think I said I might like FB cover as I didn’t know Mauragis and injuries could leave us thin there. 

He should prayer for a win and some luck because I can't see us winning the two games after this one (Adelaide) which could leave us 1 win from 10. Most coaches would walk on that rather waiting to be forced out. Time will tell. 

Showtime Nixie

He should prayer for a win and some luck because I can't see us winning the two games after this one (Adelaide) which could leave us 1 win from 10. Most coaches would walk on that rather waiting to be forced out. Time will tell. 

Absolutely no basis for stating we 'probably' won't win games that are in the future... Uffie has a lot of credit and deservedly so. The team has been playing well for long stretches of games, I strongly believe we will come right. You can see the quality of some of these players. 

Thinking about who is likely to be our top 3 scorers (Sasse revival and hot streak not considered) probably Kosta, Waine and Kraev. These guys are our three biggest goal threats imo and need to get plenty of playing time. 
The other guys- Ball, Zawada, Old, Sutton, Van Hattum, midfield and defenders aren’t potential 15 goal a season candidates. Kosta, Waine and Kraev are definitely that.

martinb

Kosta has been good for us imo. Makes good runs and despite looking silly at times is also a reasonably good finisher. He’d be in my top team or pushing for it. He’s in better touch than Ball. I’d probably start Waine because his goal scoring has been better than Zawada’s. 

I don’t know if I could have both Urgarkovic and Lewis, unless we start scoring bucketloads or keeping clean sheets. I’d probably start Pennington for Ugarkovic. We’ve coughed up cheap early goals a few times. Rufer returning will be interesting. He’d just developed his game to add a real attacking threat with dribbling and passing. Will be interesting to see how he returns.

Sutton has had patches of indifferent form, but also a great goal and has been a wunderkind for give or take two years. Mauragis has been okay though and I’m glad of that depth. 

In other words probably not so different from the pre-season team against City tbh. 

Disappointed not to see more of Surman as he looked good last season I thought. Better than Payne at CB if I’m being honest and seemed to have a left foot pass too.

 Agree, feels like people are waiting for a chance to criticise Kosta. He's a handy player and has serious experience in this league which you can't say for most of our forwards. 

lthomas20

martinb

Kosta has been good for us imo. Makes good runs and despite looking silly at times is also a reasonably good finisher. He’d be in my top team or pushing for it. He’s in better touch than Ball. I’d probably start Waine because his goal scoring has been better than Zawada’s. 

I don’t know if I could have both Urgarkovic and Lewis, unless we start scoring bucketloads or keeping clean sheets. I’d probably start Pennington for Ugarkovic. We’ve coughed up cheap early goals a few times. Rufer returning will be interesting. He’d just developed his game to add a real attacking threat with dribbling and passing. Will be interesting to see how he returns.

Sutton has had patches of indifferent form, but also a great goal and has been a wunderkind for give or take two years. Mauragis has been okay though and I’m glad of that depth. 

In other words probably not so different from the pre-season team against City tbh. 

Disappointed not to see more of Surman as he looked good last season I thought. Better than Payne at CB if I’m being honest and seemed to have a left foot pass too.

 Agree, feels like people are waiting for a chance to criticise Kosta. He's a handy player and has serious experience in this league which you can't say for most of our forwards. 

The problem is aside from some goals here and there, he just seems to have bad luck whenever he's had a stint with us compared to his time at the Roar, Victory and SFC. At the moment it looks like this could happen again, but let's hope things improve for him.

Still hold the same opinions on Sasse and Ufuk?

I was wrong about Sasse, but it was a big and sudden turnaround. I'm not upset I was wrong to be clear.

Some musings, fwiw.

Sasse is maybe like Uli.  Took a while.  And we're a nervy, hard done by, long suffering bunch, so a bit quick to write off players and despair?  Always slow starting.  I'm loving the extent to which it seems the squad is supporting Sasse. And I presume that's a good sign for overall squad morale as well.

Ufuk?  As others have argued, his system may be complex and take a while for a newish squad to adapt to.  But, for "complex", I think we also should be saying "very adaptable".  

This supposed 4222 can look a heck of a lot like 442, 4132, 424, 343, 3233, 451, 2413, 2341, 3421, even 541 at various times on the field.  I mean, ridiculous. 

That's not even the entire list.  Pick your numbers.  

I mean not really ridiculous, right, given football is actually pretty fluid. Albeit players need to adjust in moderately planned ways when others get forward, or when we overload one side of the field, etc.  We are frequently set up as a back two or three for long periods.  The fullbacks are all over the place, up and down their side of the field, overlapping, sometimes one of them, sometimes both to varying degrees.  The attacking mids can be wide or central mids, or forward in the box.  The DMs can rampage forward, as can a centre back occasionally.  And we're adapting to how the opposition set up as well.  I mean, what a game.

Much more flexible than some criticisms of Ufuks supposed fixed and favourite system might recognise?   Maybe just worth adding that if someone has the flexibility to roam, someone else might forget their role to cover. So defensive lapses early season might be down to the flexibility of the system and the complexity of the adjustments required to cover defensively for that. 

Anyway, I know nothing.  Just musings.  But hopefully we've turned a bit of a corner.  It was an entertaining game to watch.  3 points helps a lot.  Go again, lads.  (And the gals/ladies/women looked a lot better this week too).  

Happy 'Nixmas folks.  And ta to Welnix for their all year round, football supporting, financial present for Nix and NZ footy fans.

COYN
  

Showtime Nixie

He should prayer for a win and some luck because I can't see us winning the two games after this one (Adelaide) which could leave us 1 win from 10. Most coaches would walk on that rather waiting to be forced out. Time will tell. 

Is this Royz?

Rolls Royz? Think next two games are very tough.....time will tell.

Showtime Nixie

Rolls Royz? Think next two games are very tough.....time will tell.

If you are Royz you're supposed to talk about how we are gonna get smoked to reverse jinx us.

Bananas

Showtime Nixie

Rolls Royz? Think next two games are very tough.....time will tell.

If you are Royz you're supposed to talk about how we are gonna get smoked to reverse jinx us.

Bananas

Showtime Nixie

Rolls Royz? Think next two games are very tough.....time will tell.

If you are Royz you're supposed to talk about how we are gonna get smoked to reverse jinx us.

I miss Royz tbh. The reverse jinxes were fantastic.

Nommag

I was wrong about Sasse, but it was a big and sudden turnaround. I'm not upset I was wrong to be clear.

I'm still suspect on Sasse. Even his first touch for his goal was him miscontrolling.

Bullion

Nommag

I was wrong about Sasse, but it was a big and sudden turnaround. I'm not upset I was wrong to be clear.

I'm still suspect on Sasse. Even his first touch for his goal was him miscontrolling.

I think we will suss him out shortly, looking promising to me.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

Bullion

Nommag

I was wrong about Sasse, but it was a big and sudden turnaround. I'm not upset I was wrong to be clear.

I'm still suspect on Sasse. Even his first touch for his goal was him miscontrolling.

I think we will suss him out shortly, looking promising to me.

I watched Sasse from the stand in the first half last Saturday.  I was a non-believer a week ago.  Saw him in the flesh at Fraser Park for the reserves and being mighty impressed but wrote that off as thinking that any import should look mighty impressive for the reserves, as should any first team regular for that matter.  

So last Saturday, as i said, I focused on him a fair bit.  For those who have only seen him on tv, it it is not so much what he does on the ball, it is the constant runs and support he gave off the ball that was impressive.  i am actually thinking he might actually turn out to be even better than Uli by the end of the season.