Ufuk Talay - Ufuked off to Sydney FC

If he does get the NZ job and wants to do it as well as the Phoenix job does that mean he's wanting to resign a new deal with the Phoenix?

wilbaker

If he does get the NZ job and wants to do it as well as the Phoenix job does that mean he's wanting to resign a new deal with the Phoenix?

Definitely a great sign that he hasn’t ruled it out at least. If he would consider the AWs job, and staying in NZ, then it’s clear he hasn’t ruled out staying at the Nix either. Even more positive he discussed doing both roles at once - that would only really be a concern if he extended his contract.  

If both Nix and NZF will provide him with what he wants, he will definitely deliver results. 

Sail's pitch: Wellington Phoenix coach Ufuk Talay backed for All Whites job

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130186087/sails-pitch-wellington-phoenix-coach-ufuk-talay-backed-for-all-whites-job#comments

great signals that he is wanting to stay around at the nix  - if I was domey I'd be getting acontract in front of him asap! Not the NZF will be proactive but if I was Pragnell I'd be listening to the noise and talking to Dome and making stong noises about a shared deal between NZF and Nix. 

looks like Dome and co are in for the win too.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130186087/fully-supportive-wellington-phoenix-push-ufuk-talays-case-for-all-whites-job

A lot of news on something that hasn't even been discussed by all parties yet, haha. 

As long as it secures Uffie at the Nix for a long time, I'm happy with whatever he does.

theprof

looks like Dome and co are in for the win too.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130186087/fully-supportive-wellington-phoenix-push-ufuk-talays-case-for-all-whites-job

Domey probably thinks it's the one ace up their sleeve, they could have to entice Uffie to stay. Fallen into their lap rather nicely with Hay pulling out.

Dome hasn't mucked around, already having had a chat to Pragnell.

“We’ve long been talking to NZ Football about the integration of our programmes and informally we’ve chatted to Uffy [about it] over the years, whether he would be interested if the opportunity came, because we’ve had the precedent with Ricki, and of course now there is an opportunity.

“We’re very keen to progress it with NZ Football. I’ve had an initial conversation with [NZ Football CEO] Andrew Pragnell, but we’ve left it with him because the role hasn’t officially opened yet.

“We said is this something that’s worth considering and he said they would be open to considering anything at this stage.

“But for us, we’ve done it in the past with Ricki and it was reasonably successful.

“I know Uffy has raised the issue with the [international] windows but I’m more relaxed about it than Uffy is because we managed it when Ricki was coach.

“Greenie [Chris Greenacre] and Des Buckingham took over and it worked well and we like the idea of testing the young coaches and seeing if they can step up.”

Talay is off-contract at the end of the A-League Men season and the chance to coach New Zealand on the international stage could entice him to stay beyond his current deal.

The Phoenix have reached the finals twice in the three years Talay has been at the helm, despite having to relocate to Australia for two years due to Covid-19 restrictions.

They are desperate to keep hold of him and Dome said conversations were already happening between the coach and chairman Rob Morrison regarding the former Sydney FC assistant’s future.

“Coaches are like players, they go ‘how do I become a better coach, what’s the next step in my career?’ and certainly becoming the head coach of a national team would be of massive benefit to any coach.

“The All Whites don’t play very often so it’s hard to do that role fulltime and still develop your craft. For any coach to be coach of both the All Whites and Wellington Phoenix would be attractive and Uffy is genuinely interested in that. He sees this could be a way to become a better coach.

“We absolutely want Uffy to stay if we can keep him.”

Would be a lot of positives about Uffie, wearing both hats. But a few problems or challenges that it would pose -

2026 is a long way away in ALM terms. What if in a few years the Nix ain't travelling well, Uffie's voice has become a bit stale with the playing group, there's a lot of discontent and it all feels like the Nix need to part ways with Talay. So he seeks another club coaching job, and no other club team in the world would allow him to wear 2 hats. So part way through a WC cycle, he has to re-sign from the AWs job. Could happen & not ideal.

Do NZF want the AWs coach to also coach the OlyWhites at Paris in 2024? As Hay did last year in Tokyo. Paris Olympics will likely be in ALM off season (Aug-Sept), but still not ideal having Nix head coach away for 4-6 weeks not long before new ALM season.

Though sounds like Dome & Co are prepared to be flexible re any arrangement. Not too concerned if the ALM doesn't observe all FIFA windows, and Giancarlo or whoever steps in if Uffie was away coaching the AWs. Just shows how keen they are to retain Talay for as long as they can.

Chiefy has a pretty good win ratio. Didn't he win every game when Ufuk had covid?

coochiee

Would be a lot of positives about Uffie, wearing both hats. But a few problems or challenges that it would pose -

2026 is a long way away in ALM terms. What if in a few years the Nix ain't travelling well, Uffie's voice has become a bit stale with the playing group, there's a lot of discontent and it all feels like the Nix need to part ways with Talay. So he seeks another club coaching job, and no other club team in the world would allow him to wear 2 hats. So part way through a WC cycle, he has to re-sign from the AWs job. Could happen & not ideal.

Do NZF want the AWs coach to also coach the OlyWhites at Paris in 2024? As Hay did last year in Tokyo. Paris Olympics will likely be in ALM off season (Aug-Sept), but still not ideal having Nix head coach away for 4-6 weeks not long before new ALM season.

Though sounds like Dome & Co are prepared to be flexible re any arrangement. Not too concerned if the ALM doesn't observe all FIFA windows, and Giancarlo or whoever steps in if Uffie was away coaching the AWs. Just shows how keen they are to retain Talay for as long as they can.

I thought this as well, but considering WC is in 2026 and a new Uffie contract would begin in mid 2023, it would still just be a three year commitment. Considering the stability and good results he has brought so far, I'd say that would be a good leap of faith for the Nix to take. 

I've seen a fair few comments about Giancarlo taking over when Uffie was away - I honestly think A-League will get international breaks (Popa, Kisnorbo and Aloisi all called for them earlier in the year) or the Nix will get an amended schedule (because nearly half our squad will get a call up). So it may not be an issue. 

There was a rule awhile back, I don't know if it's still the case, but it was something like: If an Australian team lose 3 players in a window, or the Phoenix lose 5, their games are rescheduled.

There are lots of managers you wouldnt sign if you started worrying about what ifs that could happen in the future. Really dont think what might happen in the future should carry much weight at all. Also dont expect us to get any favours when it comes to the draw hasnt happened so far and not sure it will in the future.

NZPhoenixFan

Sail's pitch: Wellington Phoenix coach Ufuk Talay backed for All Whites job

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130186087/sails-pitch-wellington-phoenix-coach-ufuk-talay-backed-for-all-whites-job#comments

  It's not too surprising Talay floated the idea, he's off-contract so he's probably already thinking about what will the next move be. Coaching is a job first and foremost, so finances will be a big factor and if he can supplement his Phoenix salary with an All Whites salary then that could well end up being the biggest financial package available. Add in factors like not having to relocate as well and it can become an attractive proposal. 

The comment about how he'd only take the job if it meant staying at the Phoenix sort of suggests he knows that the double-up gig won't be available elsewhere, and possibly that he isn't that desperate if he wouldn't take the gig as a standalone. At the end of the day, he'd be on a contract until at least 2026, so that's a lot of committed spending by NZF, so if he's losing friendlies against Thailand, Luxembourg, North Macedonia etc it doesn't really affect him, job-security-wise or otherwise. Coaching can be a fraught business so long contracts are a big plus.

He also has a lot of built-up goodwill, rightly or wrongly far more than Danny Hay ever got and possibly even more than Des Buckingham at the moment, so that would help make him an attractive candidate. NZF are probably at a low point in their public rep, so appointing someone popular could be a way to get people back on their side. 

Anyone got full access to this? Was debating whether to also post this in Wanted: All Whites' Coach.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/jason-pine-wellington-phoenix-coach-ufuk-talay-for-the-all-whites-job-why-it-probably-wont-happen/WHUYLOOGHDAQFS7YOO4XEZQXNQ/

I like Piney but it's a really poor article. Sounds more like Piney doesnt think it will suit him. I think from Uffies perspective, there'd be more upsides to it career-wise than there would be downsides. 

Piney seems to be seeing it as either AW or the Nix, which would not be the case, and also seems not to rate the chance of a near-guaranteed WC outing next time. An international coaching gig at the WC looks good on the CV, even if it is only the All Whites lol

Talay would be  - at face value - no worse than anyone else, and is a known quantity.  It would also likely allow him to be far more involved with the next Nix coach (should he vacate that role) than if he just took on a new club somewhere in the Middle East or South East Asia.

lthomas20

I like Piney but it's a really poor article. Sounds more like Piney doesnt think it will suit him. I think from Uffies perspective, there'd be more upsides to it career-wise than there would be downsides. 

Is it just Piney or have NZ Football got caught out with the momentum for Uffie, and had someone else in mind or has someone else got different ideas? Is Des keen for less money and sod all games? 

Or is it just Piney writing opinion and getting clicks?

Can certainly see why uffy would be keen for the AWs job - next world cup four years away and a very good chance to get qualified with the expanded format. Tempting for a potential first international team gig

Think this is actually a big problem for the Nix (obviously has been since they existed) with no easy fix.

Once they were knocked out of the Australia Cup, just had the one friendly against Sydney FC over about a 5-6 week period pre season?

Anyway 2 home games now, so must be a good chance to get their best ever early season, 6 game run under Talay. That's if they can make their 2nd half Melb City performance, a consistent thing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130302380/wellington-phoenixs-slow-start-a-familiar-sight-under-ufuk-talay-but-he-has-reason-for-optimism

Talay said that while he’s not one to “whinge and whine and make up excuses,” there is a significant step up from pre-season, where the Phoenix often have to make do with matches against amateur New Zealand sides, to the actual season.

it is a massive issue for the nix, you want to have a home preseason, or maybe a short trip away to galvenise the squad, but in NZ the strongest team you can find might be an Auckland semi-pro team? Which should in all rights provide very little challenge. If they want local, Wellington teams then you're probably better off playing intersquad/reserves friendlies before approaching any local clubs. If you want a-league teams then travelling to Aussie is the only way.

theprof

it is a massive issue for the nix, you want to have a home preseason, or maybe a short trip away to galvenise the squad, but in NZ the strongest team you can find might be an Auckland semi-pro team? Which should in all rights provide very little challenge. If they want local, Wellington teams then you're probably better off playing intersquad/reserves friendlies before approaching any local clubs. If you want a-league teams then travelling to Aussie is the only way.

Wellington Olympic currently sit atop the championship table, the NIx can get a similar level of competition in Wellington from Wellington Olympic or Mirimar Rangers as they would from Auckland City, but you're right, that's nothing compared to professional opponents.

The team should be settled next season, if Ufuk stays on and we manage to retain the players off contract that we want to retain (like Ugarcovic and Lewis) then it would be good to see the Phoenix organise some sort of pre-season competition, either here or overseas.

Is Oppo still a sponsor of Barcelona? :)

Ryan

theprof

it is a massive issue for the nix, you want to have a home preseason, or maybe a short trip away to galvenise the squad, but in NZ the strongest team you can find might be an Auckland semi-pro team? Which should in all rights provide very little challenge. If they want local, Wellington teams then you're probably better off playing intersquad/reserves friendlies before approaching any local clubs. If you want a-league teams then travelling to Aussie is the only way.

Wellington Olympic currently sit atop the championship table, the NIx can get a similar level of competition in Wellington from Wellington Olympic or Mirimar Rangers as they would from Auckland City, but you're right, that's nothing compared to professional opponents.

The team should be settled next season, if Ufuk stays on and we manage to retain the players off contract that we want to retain (like Ugarcovic and Lewis) then it would be good to see the Phoenix organise some sort of pre-season competition, either here or overseas.

Is Oppo still a sponsor of Barcelona? :)

Mariners academy team are on a tour of Japan playing J1 & J2 youth teams at the moment. Something like that would be excellent for us, especially if we mixed in some senior team vs senior J1, J2 or even Korean/Chinese/SEA teams if it was done during preseason.

1 win in 7 to start the season. At what point does the club start asking some serious questions. Personally I'm not sold on this guy, he does very well with the media when the pressure comes on and seems to talk himself out of situations with excuses and sometimes bizarre reasoning. The owner loves him but i think change is needed. We deserve better.

Women's coach 0/4 with atrocious football. That makes it 1 win from 11 games at the Phoenix. Do we have a coaching crisis? How long do fans wait before a protest for change? 

I honestly dont see the Nix owners sacking a coach this early in the season. Questions will be being asked but I'd expect both coaches to have reasonable answers and plans in place. 
7 points from 7 games aint great, but it aint the worst either, we are literally 1 win away from 4th. It's way too early to be calling for heads to roll.

Showtime Nixie

1 win in 7 to start the season. At what point does the club start asking some serious questions. Personally I'm not sold on this guy, he does very well with the media when the pressure comes on and seems to talk himself out of situations with excuses and sometimes bizarre reasoning. The owner loves him but i think change is needed. We deserve better.

Women's coach 0/4 with atrocious football. That makes it 1 win from 11 games at the Phoenix. Do we have a coaching crisis? How long do fans wait before a protest for change? 

We've played some excellent Football over the past three years, getting to the playoffs twice, just missing out once, all whilst being uprooted from home by a global pandemic. If anyone deserves a chance it's him.

Showtime Nixie

1 win in 7 to start the season. At what point does the club start asking some serious questions. Personally I'm not sold on this guy, he does very well with the media when the pressure comes on and seems to talk himself out of situations with excuses and sometimes bizarre reasoning. The owner loves him but i think change is needed. We deserve better.

Women's coach 0/4 with atrocious football. That makes it 1 win from 11 games at the Phoenix. Do we have a coaching crisis? How long do fans wait before a protest for change? 

I think he'll get the season, he's earned it really. Don't think any alternatives are that crash hot for right now. If things continue as they are I'd like to see fresh ideas next year though.

Agree for the women's team though, change is needed and quickly I think before it spirals. 

Think it might be a little too early for this conversation. Every season so far under Uffie has been a slow start which has come right, and we have more often than not made the 6. I think it is very harsh to judge this team already - particularly because we have played some decent football -  it isn't like the womens team, which has not been good at all. 
just need to develop some mental toughness to hold on when the games are tight... seems to be missing. Get a bit better at that, and we start winning more consistently.

Probably best league in the world to be an average coach and survive in the job with a 6 team playoff as a pass mark every year for some clubs. I don't believe past results should matter, you see coaches and clubs all around the world deal with the present situation. I'm not sure the top clubs in the league would tolerate 1 win from 7. Standards need to be higher imo. I agree not sure who would come in and do the job and do it for the right reasons. Team has to get a wins soon. Wins are what fans want to see...not a "how far are we from a playoff list". Not for me anyway.

The difference between this year and the pandemic years is that this year, Talay stuffed up the recruitment. The dogs in the street know that Sasse is a dud and we were one import CB short. If Talay doesn't know it, it's time to go.

Doloras

The difference between this year and the pandemic years is that this year, Talay stuffed up the recruitment. The dogs in the street know that Sasse is a dud and we were one import CB short. If Talay doesn't know it, it's time to go.

Well, that's two of you.  So many dogs.  :) ;)

So, you're going to argue with your bare face hanging out that Talay didn't clearly stuff up the recruitment? This should be good.

Doloras

So, you're going to argue with your bare face hanging out that Talay didn't clearly stuff up the recruitment? This should be good.

 And I thought the APL was gonna have the worst take of the week.

I could start my usual all over again, but I won't. I don't think Talay stuffed up the recruitment. I think we have the best team in the league. I really like Kraev and Zawada, I like Kosta. I'm not sure that we've seen enough of Sasse to know if he's a dud. I think that taking South Americans is always a risk, they need to be scouted extremely well because there are so many Professional footballers in South America, a lot of them are really not good (it was happening a lot in Europe).
For me Talay struggles to understand how to put his players into an effective team. In my view the 2 best games we've had this season were the 2 Melbourne City games (1 in the cup). We need to revisit those line ups. 

I wouldn't be starting:
Ball 
Ugarkovic 
Payne
Sasse
Kosta?
I would be starting:
Waine
Old
Pennington
Laws
Elliot

kungfu panda

I could start my usual all over again, but I won't. I don't think Talay stuffed up the recruitment. I think we have the best team in the league. I really like Kraev and Zawada, I like Kosta. I'm not sure that we've seen enough of Sasse to know if he's a dud. I think that taking South Americans is always a risk, they need to be scouted extremely well because there are so many Professional footballers in South America, a lot of them are really not good (it was happening a lot in Europe).
For me Talay struggles to understand how to put his players into an effective team. In my view the the 2 best games we've had this season were the 2 Melbourne City games (1 in the cup). We need to revisit those line ups. 

I wouldn't be starting:
Ball 
Ugarkovic 
Payne
Sasse
Kosta?
I would be starting:
Waine
Old
Pennington
Laws
Elliot

I agree with you on Kraev and Zawada, but to say that we have the best team in the league is pretty naive. 

Also why don't you want Ball starting? Just because he's had his injury problems doesn't make him less important to the team. His unselfishness, his link up play, his experience, his strength, and of course his influence on younger players like Waine.

yeah Zawada and kraev have made good starts, Ball has to start, just for his seniority and heart. If you start all your young players you lose a lot with the lack of experience and leadership. kosta and sasse havent done enough to warrant their fee yet.... I had some hope with sasse, but not with Kosta (he is doing exzactly as I expected he would).

kungfu panda

I could start my usual all over again, but I won't. I don't think Talay stuffed up the recruitment. I think we have the best team in the league. I really like Kraev and Zawada, I like Kosta. I'm not sure that we've seen enough of Sasse to know if he's a dud. I think that taking South Americans is always a risk, they need to be scouted extremely well because there are so many Professional footballers in South America, a lot of them are really not good (it was happening a lot in Europe).
For me Talay struggles to understand how to put his players into an effective team. In my view the 2 best games we've had this season were the 2 Melbourne City games (1 in the cup). We need to revisit those line ups. 

I wouldn't be starting:
Ball 
Ugarkovic 
Payne
Sasse
Kosta?
I would be starting:
Waine
Old
Pennington
Laws
Elliot

And we all know you're utterly delusional

We never put out the same line up and that's never a good sign. Either the team doesn't know what they're doing or the coach has little clue....or both. For me its a mess. I think he needs to win at home this week or serious questions have to be asked by all.