R13 vs Central Coast Mariners | Sat 12 Jan | 7.35pm | Westpac | #KidsGoFree

valeo
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Legend
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almost 17 years

Leggy wrote:

mrsmiis wrote:

Over 10,000 people turning up to that match in a city of 200,000, with a wider urban area of 420,000 (Porirua, the Hutt, etc)

Around 2.5% of the entire urban area was in that stadium tonight.

Victory's attendance was 16,000, in a city of 5 million. Even if we half that accounting for City fans (generous), that's 0.3% of fans turning up.

Wellington got more than EIGHT times their population to their game than the Victory. But we're still not good enough?

Not sure what you are trying to prove?

CCM supporters could say they have been there from the start of this league. Have won major prizes with a population of about 160000.

MV supporters might say that they have had crowds of 30 to 60 thousand and have an average 17000 attendance. Have also won lots of trophies.

It is 10 years since we had our biggest crowd of nearly 12000 and have won zero.

He's commenting on the 'metrics' angle/crowd angle - what you are saying is completely irrelevant. 

Trialist
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about 6 years

Thought Kopa improved in the second half after Nichols was subbed, started to control the midfield a bit better. But agree with the rest - he looks better placing in the CB role.

Legend
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almost 9 years

Leggy wrote:

mrsmiis wrote:

Over 10,000 people turning up to that match in a city of 200,000, with a wider urban area of 420,000 (Porirua, the Hutt, etc)

Around 2.5% of the entire urban area was in that stadium tonight.

Victory's attendance was 16,000, in a city of 5 million. Even if we half that accounting for City fans (generous), that's 0.3% of fans turning up.

Wellington got more than EIGHT times their population to their game than the Victory. But we're still not good enough?

Not sure what you are trying to prove?

CCM supporters could say they have been there from the start of this league. Have won major prizes with a population of about 160000.

MV supporters might say that they have had crowds of 30 to 60 thousand and have an average 17000 attendance. Have also won lots of trophies.

It is 10 years since we had our biggest crowd of nearly 12000 and have won zero.

Not sure what you're trying to prove either leggy, be positive for once you miserable bastard. He's saying that per capita, this was a great crowd. Which it was. Mrsmiis isn't saying we are a better fan base than CCM or Victory, he's questioning the bullshark metrics criteria for crowd numbers

Really need that Unendorse button!

Bringing up per capita stats is a small town cringe worthy soft mentality. Rudan doesn't like weak mentalities.

Wellington should be aiming for a successful team, a fun game experience and 10k home crowds as the expected normal. At least for non 7.30pm Sunday games.

Sure the metrics are harsh, and the Nix should be retained in the A League - if just for their off field financial stability. But the average home crowd size needs to increase. The FFA have given NZ (not Wellington per se) an A League licence. The per capita agrument is weak. FFA could rightly just say take your team to a bigger NZ market then, ie sort your shark out Auckland. 

Bring up those per capita Olympic medal tables (a favourite NZ sports journo past time every 4 years), to an Aussie or anyone from a larger country and they just laugh. They think they are a joke.

Well done to Wellington yesterday for getting a 10K plus crowd. Keep striving for it.

Starting XI
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over 16 years

Not sure what you're trying to prove either leggy, be positive for once you miserable bastard. He's saying that per capita, this was a great crowd. Which it was. Mrsmiis isn't saying we are a better fan base than CCM or Victory, he's questioning the bullshark metrics criteria for crowd numbers

Yep, it's a good per capita crowd.  And so what?

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This is straightforward in a harsh cynical sense.  

It's the large TV audiences that result in large TV licence dollars that fund the League (and hence it's ability to attract and keep decent players and provide improving quality of entertainment).

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And it's just a fact that the large TV audiences are primarily coming from the large fan base clubs from the large Aussie cities.  

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I think the main part of our "job" as a club in the A League right now is to be good enough and competitive enough to provide entertaining, quality matches for the larger population A League clubs fans and wider audience to watch. 

And that doesn't exclude us winning the thing from time to time.

But we sure as heck haven't been bringing much NZ based TV A League licence money to add real financial value.  At least not to date.

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It's all about the TV eyeballs. Not per capita numbers.

So yep a great turn out.  A fun second half.  

But those metrics are real.  And they are not per capita.

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Having said that, I'd emphasise that the big clubs know they need someone to play; and that, if games are competitive and entertaining, the more games (and hence teams) the better.  So they know we are valuable beyond just the NZ TV eyeball numbers.  If we are entertaining and competitive.  

But we also know that they want us to bring in a wider 4 million NZ TV audience and through that a greater share of the TV funding based on numbers.  And from our selfish perspective that's the way we could add more value to the League than a current CCM or a possible future third Melbourne or Sydney side.  Plus our financial stability etc.

COYN.

First Team Squad
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over 6 years

Leggy wrote:

Plus we got a crowd of 13,600 against adelaide in 2015 so I don't know where the 12000 came from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League_attendance

That was at Eden Park

Nope, it was at Westpac and we won 4-2. Krishna, Bonevacia and Ridenton scored. That game had a 13,654 crowd and was on the 13th November 2015. So our biggest wasn't 12,000 and certainly nowhere near a decade ago. 

Phoenix Academy
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over 7 years

Leggy wrote:

Plus we got a crowd of 13,600 against adelaide in 2015 so I don't know where the 12000 came from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League_attendance

That was at Eden Park

We got 20k against Adelaide in 2011. We got 13.6k against Adelaide in September 2015, right after our license drama kicked off.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-13/bonevacia-doubles-up-as-wellington-rolls-adelaide/6940220  

Phoenix Academy
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over 7 years

Leggy wrote:

Plus we got a crowd of 13,600 against adelaide in 2015 so I don't know where the 12000 came from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League_attendance

That was at Eden Park

We got 20k against Adelaide in 2011. We got 13.6k against Adelaide in September 2015, right after our license drama kicked off.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-13/bonevacia-doubles-up-as-wellington-rolls-adelaide/6940220  

Whoops, didn’t see that DJ Sarpong had already responded to that

Marquee
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over 16 years

what a weird twist this thread has taken. 

Starting XI
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over 16 years

We've gone from crowds of just under 7,000 the last couple of matches up to 10,000 this match. That's great. 

Hopefully if we keep getting decent results we can build on this crowd number and get even bigger crowds. 10,000 isn't our 'ceiling'. Agree with Rudan in his press conference who said we should be able to get even bigger attendances.

Yes, a relatively lower population than others can make getting equivalent crowds harder, but judging success on 'per capita' doesn't really work, using it you could argue that us getting 4,000 is better than bigger cities getting 30,000 on a 'per capita' basis, but that's silly. It's also controversial how you work out the relevant population size. Maybe an A-League team could be entered from Bulls if someone rich enough funds them? My bet is they'd get way bigger crowds than us on a per capita basis, and with the added bonus of endless puns.

Marquee
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almost 17 years

Thing that gets me when people talk about attendance figures is  that the 10000 figure is the one always thrown out as  if something in our past suggests thats the number that we should expect. Given the rugby boys have struggled to get those numbers im not sure why we expect we should. Also think our attendance numbers will be affected by timing and dont think a 7.30 Sunday will have the same appeal to some.

Hopefully with the boys showing the sort of fighting spirit they have recently 10000 will become our norm.

Legend
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over 16 years

The 10,000 figure has always been given as the "break even" number to run the event at the stadium. I suspect its been picked up by the FFA as part of metrics because of that and we all talk about it like it the magic number. Last night was great with the crowd making some decent noise, but I remember that game against Adelaide before the galaxy match when we got 20,000. Now that was amazing! Rudes said it really well in his post match interview, the team are doing the work, the fans have deserved more, but this city/country needs to get behind the Nix or they'll be gone.

Starting XI
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ballane wrote:

Thing that gets me when people talk about attendance figures is  that the 10000 figure is the one always thrown out as  if something in our past suggests thats the number that we should expect. Given the rugby boys have struggled to get those numbers im not sure why we expect we should. Also think our attendance numbers will be affected by timing and dont think a 7.30 Sunday will have the same appeal to some.

Hopefully with the boys showing the sort of fighting spirit they have recently 10000 will become our norm.

Think it's more about what we understand is the breakeven number for the club?

The smaller city thing has some advantages.  A bit less to do here than Melbourne or Sydney.  Although we punch above our weight for that too.

---

The Nix y'day retweeted a guy who had come to Welly for the game and was looking forward to it.

I had a quick look at what he said after the game, and his prior tweets.

He loved the atmosphere; him and his family have bought 'Nix gear; and they are new 'Nix fans.

And his previous posts show him to be a red and black rugby fan.

How great is that.

Stadium of 4 million.  Bring your lucky yellow socks.

28
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about 16 years

Someone mentioned booing earlier on. I find it really interesting. I don't indulge in booing (unless it's the ref which is bad).

Do we do it to out off the kicker?

I am sure I've read something from an eggball kicker that it is wayyyyyyy more unnerving to take a kick when the crowd is dead silent. They're used to the white noise crowds provide and I assume they can't tell if its positive or negative in that moment because they block out the content, but the silence is creepy.

Marquee
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over 13 years

I <3 Nix wrote:

Someone mentioned booing earlier on. I find it really interesting. I don't indulge in booing (unless it's the ref which is bad).

Do we do it to out off the kicker?

I am sure I've read something from an eggball kicker that it is wayyyyyyy more unnerving to take a kick when the crowd is dead silent. They're used to the white noise crowds provide and I assume they can't tell if its positive or negative in that moment because they block out the content, but the silence is creepy.

I guess it had more to do with the fact it was Matt Simon.  He rubs many fans (not just the Nix fans) the wrong way.

Starting XI
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over 14 years

Seriously how good where CCM in that first half!, If they can play like that for the full 90min they can beat anyone. I think they will beat Melb City in there next game.

One in a million
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almost 17 years

Royz wrote:

Seriously how good where CCM in that first half!, If they can play like that for the full 90min they can beat anyone. I think they will beat Melb City in there next game.


Yes they did really well till that send off.
Starting XI
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Is it just a coincidence but in the half and a bit that Sheridan has player, Roy has been electric. Scoring and setting up goals.

Does the presence of Sheridan attract defenders and gives Roy more space or is it the quality of passing to open up the space for Krishna.

A bit of both I think. Looks really positive going forward.

Starting XI
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Ranix wrote:

Is it just a coincidence but in the half and a bit that Sheridan has player, Roy has been electric. Scoring and setting up goals.

Does the presence of Sheridan attract defenders and gives Roy more space or is it the quality of passing to open up the space for Krishna.

A bit of both I think. Looks really positive going forward.

I think Sheridan ability to hold the ball up, his height and passes in the box have contributed - Just need him to score now.
Marquee
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over 16 years

Royz wrote:

Ranix wrote:

Is it just a coincidence but in the half and a bit that Sheridan has player, Roy has been electric. Scoring and setting up goals.

Does the presence of Sheridan attract defenders and gives Roy more space or is it the quality of passing to open up the space for Krishna.

A bit of both I think. Looks really positive going forward.

I think Sheridan ability to hold the ball up, his height and passes in the box have contributed - Just need him to score now.

agreed. but also him and others around him still need to get on the same page a bit more. he often made runs which no one saw or asked for a quick ball and got a slow one or vice versa. Once they all learn how they all play, we will be red hot in the final third. 

Starting XI
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over 9 years
Ranix wrote:

Is it just a coincidence but in the half and a bit that Sheridan has player, Roy has been electric. Scoring and setting up goals.

Does the presence of Sheridan attract defenders and gives Roy more space or is it the quality of passing to open up the space for Krishna.

A bit of both I think. Looks really positive going forward.

Sheridan, from what he's shown so far, is something we've been missing in that final third for a long time. Not only is he a big boy, but he get's himself around the park, has good vision and nice control, and from his two appearances thus far has been that link player with a bit of class to make things work. So it definitely takes a lot of onus off Krishna to be the one to make things work.

This was more evident in the WSW game with the through ball for Roy's 1st, and the cheeky flick through to free up Burgess for Roy's 2nd. Not to say he didn't play well, just a different match and tactical situation last night.

What he does do is give us the physical presence up front, it's another dimension for us to switch to/between when the opposition figures out that a lot of our play is built around the smaller, quicker and technical players - Singh, Krishna, Williams.

It'll be interesting to see if Rudan goes with the formation he set up in that 2nd half in Melbourne, thought it suited us really well, although I suspect with Rufer and Mandi back in the frame we'll still see Sheridan coming off the bench at some stage.  Don't think we could drop someone like Williams at the moment either as he's been very good, especially these last four or so weeks. Good problems to have for Rudan.

First Team Squad
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over 8 years

Really pleased in the end. The 1st half was dreadful, but after a kick up the ass from Rudan and a red card we came together nicely. Cillian is proving to be an excellent signing so far and has been a monster off the bench. I'd be keen to see him play a full 90 at some point. The end of the game was a roller coaster of emotions. In went from nervous, to fearful, to relieved about 6 times in the last 10 when CCM were attacking. After resting up we should be able to put up good fight against VIC

First Team Squad
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over 5 years

Just another point re: attendance. 

A point my fiancee (not a football fan but attends games with me as a Wellingtonian).  When we were walking around Welly yesterday, there was absolutely no advertising / propaganda visible.  What the club could do, is have ticket sellers walking around town (like those they had at the top of the ramps at the station).  More posters and ask the council to get rid of those Christmas flags and replace them with the Nix ones again.  Just feels that they need a greater "on street" presence.  There were a few tourists we passed yesterday that looked completely bewildered with me wearing a nix scarf.

First Team Squad
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almost 10 years

Robinhood wrote:
Lovely, balmy Wellington night for football....best I can remember for ages.      Decent crowd well led, as ever, by the Yellow Fever.      Good effort from the Mariner's.    Still going for the equaliser when down to 10 men.        The booing when their player was taking the deserved penalty was disgraceful.        No need to stoop to that level. 

Do you want everyone to stand and applaud Matt Simon? What? The whole point of any active support is to intimidate the away team, which includes booing, and even includes abusing and making the home stadium a living hell in some Eastern European countries. Something soccer fans have been doing since before you were born (and judging by all those spaces between sentences, it was a little while ago). Booing is merely an off-putting device by the fans, unless there was a bad ref call. This time, Matt Simon is just a pest so it's deserved.

Trialist
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about 5 years

Robinhood wrote:
Lovely, balmy Wellington night for football....best I can remember for ages.      Decent crowd well led, as ever, by the Yellow Fever.      Good effort from the Mariner's.    Still going for the equaliser when down to 10 men.        The booing when their player was taking the deserved penalty was disgraceful.        No need to stoop to that level. 

Do you want everyone to stand and applaud Matt Simon? What? The whole point of any active support is to intimidate the away team, which includes booing, and even includes abusing and making the home stadium a living hell in some Eastern European countries. Something soccer fans have been doing since before you were born (and judging by all those spaces between sentences, it was a little while ago). Booing is merely an off-putting device by the fans, unless there was a bad ref call. This time, Matt Simon is just a pest so it's deserved.

Agreed. Part of the fun (for me anyway) is booing instances like that.

Dont tell that kid what was being sung at full time, if he didnt like the booing he'd hate that.

valeo
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Legend
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almost 17 years

Colvinator wrote:

We've gone from crowds of just under 7,000 the last couple of matches up to 10,000 this match. That's great. 

Hopefully if we keep getting decent results we can build on this crowd number and get even bigger crowds. 10,000 isn't our 'ceiling'. Agree with Rudan in his press conference who said we should be able to get even bigger attendances.

Yes, a relatively lower population than others can make getting equivalent crowds harder, but judging success on 'per capita' doesn't really work, using it you could argue that us getting 4,000 is better than bigger cities getting 30,000 on a 'per capita' basis, but that's silly. It's also controversial how you work out the relevant population size. Maybe an A-League team could be entered from Bulls if someone rich enough funds them? My bet is they'd get way bigger crowds than us on a per capita basis, and with the added bonus of endless puns.

From my perspective, this was a perfect storm of good will - good results for 3 weeks prior, positive vibes around the team, playing a team dead last, while lots of people were on holiday + with shockingly good weather. Not to mention kids going free and 30k being handed out.

With all this, we *just* managed over 10k.

Anyone who expects us to average 10k is dreaming. If we lose against Victory, and then the weather isn't perfect for the game agianst Syd; I'd expect 6-7k again.

Marquee
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almost 17 years

You missed one valeo it wasnt 7.30 0n a Sunday nite. I actually think we can get to the 10k average.BUT its going to take time and plenty of effort PROPER planning and having games REGULARLY and not taking the team away for weeks at atime.

Starting XI
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over 16 years

Interesting question is whether playing a dead bottom club without a win is positive or negative on our attendance numbers? I don't know how this works for us. As you mention Valeo, for some that helps bring people along as the likelihood of a win is more likely, I can see that. I also imagine though that for many it would be a more enticing match to go to if it was against a better team. My understanding is that for a lot of clubs they do get better crowds vs better teams than vs bottom teams.

We were on a great run going into this match, but at the same time were only 6th on the table. If we were in an even higher position, that could bring even higher numbers (on a nice day when game at a reasonable day/time etc).

Marquee
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over 13 years

Robinhood wrote:
Lovely, balmy Wellington night for football....best I can remember for ages.      Decent crowd well led, as ever, by the Yellow Fever.      Good effort from the Mariner's.    Still going for the equaliser when down to 10 men.        The booing when their player was taking the deserved penalty was disgraceful.        No need to stoop to that level. 

Do you want everyone to stand and applaud Matt Simon? What? The whole point of any active support is to intimidate the away team, which includes booing, and even includes abusing and making the home stadium a living hell in some Eastern European countries. Something soccer fans have been doing since before you were born (and judging by all those spaces between sentences, it was a little while ago). Booing is merely an off-putting device by the fans, unless there was a bad ref call. This time, Matt Simon is just a pest so it's deserved.

(raises hand, owns up to being an abusive fan, back in primary school days in Eastern Europe)

JC
Phoenix Academy
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240
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over 9 years

Players will no doubt enjoy a few days to take it a bit easier before building up again for Victory.

I gotta say that I'm a bit exhausted (and exhilarated!) by recent quick run of games and good times in Nix town. The rest will certainly do me good before needing to fire up for the next quick fire run of games.

Rudan's pressers are a masterclass. I've never really cared for them after matches, but he's a joy to listen to. Funny how he reckons he's a pretty relaxed, level headed guy - I don't think the Nix have ever had a coach so obviously emotional about the club. Plus, he clearly hasn't clocked yet that he's now in a country where raising your eyebrows might be considered an over enthusiastic reaction from a coach. 

LG
Legend
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over 16 years

The thing with Rudan. What you see is what you get. Honest, straight up and gives 110%. You can either be on the gravy train or not. He wants winners. He wants to win and be number one and he tries to do it with a bit of style when possible. He is passionate about football and I think he might actually realise just how much it means to the hard core fans here in Wellington. He knows we are on a knife edge with those metrics etc. 

The players have bought into his vision and it shows. There were comments about the culture within the club that started with Ricki and came to a head last season. I think that culture has been banished and the players are much more focussed. Whatever happens this ship is not sinking without a fight. I'm still buzzing we have a professional team, but even more so because now we have a professional team that gives a shark and is trying its best.

and 13 others
First Team Squad
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over 14 years

A quote from Solksjaer after an ugly win over Spurs last night:

"You expect to win every single game at Manchester United. You won't, but you must think that. That's the mentality of this group."

That's exactly the sort of mentality I was talking about before the come-back win over CCM on the weekend. Yeah the Nix are no ManU but as Lonegunmen mentioned above, there was a serious mentality issue at the club and had been for a long time. At long last it seems as though Rudan has turned the Nix into a team of winners (that won't necessarily win every game), and a team that Wellington (and the whole country) can be proud of.

valeo
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Legend
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18K
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almost 17 years

To be honest, that first half had me thinking 'same old Nix'. So happy we managed to turn it around, but if we start like that v Victory, we'll get pillared. 

First Team Squad
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over 6 years

valeo wrote:

To be honest, that first half had me thinking 'same old Nix'. So happy we managed to turn it around, but if we start like that v Victory, we'll get pillared. 

very true, but pretty much every game we've had Mandi and Rufer as our midfield two. The fact that we had neither and still managed to win is massive. Will be very glad to see them back this week
First Team Squad
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almost 13 years

I wouldn't be too surprised to see a game where Singh is dropped for Cillian and Cillian is up front with Williams and Krishna playing off him. Going to be some interesting decisions for Rudan coming up

Marquee
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over 13 years

i would much prefer to see Singh playing balls through to The Sherifff!

Legend
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over 16 years

Nommag wrote:

I wouldn't be too surprised to see a game where Singh is dropped for Cillian and Cillian is up front with Williams and Krishna playing off him. Going to be some interesting decisions for Rudan coming up

sorry what now? you'd drop our best creative midfielder for our new striker? Cillian will end up playing up front with Roy. If Rudan decides to play 3 up front with Williams and Krishna then you'd have to drop Mandi or Rufer to accommodate that. I dont see Rudan changing his 3-5-2 setup just to bring in Cillian. He's likely to drop Burns all together and play Williams from the bench.

First Team Squad
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almost 13 years

theprof wrote:

Nommag wrote:

I wouldn't be too surprised to see a game where Singh is dropped for Cillian and Cillian is up front with Williams and Krishna playing off him. Going to be some interesting decisions for Rudan coming up

sorry what now? you'd drop our best creative midfielder for our new striker? Cillian will end up playing up front with Roy. If Rudan decides to play 3 up front with Williams and Krishna then you'd have to drop Mandi or Rufer to accommodate that. I dont see Rudan changing his 3-5-2 setup just to bring in Cillian. He's likely to drop Burns all together and play Williams from the bench.

I just feel bad for Williams, his goals are great.

Legend
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over 16 years

Nommag wrote:

theprof wrote:

Nommag wrote:

I wouldn't be too surprised to see a game where Singh is dropped for Cillian and Cillian is up front with Williams and Krishna playing off him. Going to be some interesting decisions for Rudan coming up

sorry what now? you'd drop our best creative midfielder for our new striker? Cillian will end up playing up front with Roy. If Rudan decides to play 3 up front with Williams and Krishna then you'd have to drop Mandi or Rufer to accommodate that. I dont see Rudan changing his 3-5-2 setup just to bring in Cillian. He's likely to drop Burns all together and play Williams from the bench.

I just feel bad for Williams, his goals are great.

great they are indeed, but there is no room for feeling sorry for a player here. If and when Cillian is ready to start, then I'm pretty sure whoever is asked to step aside for him will do so without fuss. Assuming it is williams I'd expect him to continue banging them in as a sub and pushing for Roy's spot should his drop or he gets injured.

Starting XI
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over 16 years

Nommag wrote:

theprof wrote:

Nommag wrote:

I wouldn't be too surprised to see a game where Singh is dropped for Cillian and Cillian is up front with Williams and Krishna playing off him. Going to be some interesting decisions for Rudan coming up

sorry what now? you'd drop our best creative midfielder for our new striker? Cillian will end up playing up front with Roy. If Rudan decides to play 3 up front with Williams and Krishna then you'd have to drop Mandi or Rufer to accommodate that. I dont see Rudan changing his 3-5-2 setup just to bring in Cillian. He's likely to drop Burns all together and play Williams from the bench.

I just feel bad for Williams, his goals are great.

Williams and sheriff have shown they have a lot to offer from the bench. That's great for us. Nothing wrong with options and competition for places. 
Marquee
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over 13 years

valeo wrote:

To be honest, that first half had me thinking 'same old Nix'. So happy we managed to turn it around, but if we start like that v Victory, we'll get pillared. 

very true, but pretty much every game we've had Mandi and Rufer as our midfield two. The fact that we had neither and still managed to win is massive. Will be very glad to see them back this week

100% this.  It simply was a harder game for us than say that against WSW because you could play without Mandi or Rufer, but not without Mandi and Rufer.  I had no idea where the positive result would come from against CCM, after the first 30 minutes, but luckily CCM did it all for us by themselves, pretty much. Taking Nicholls off for Sheridan helped also.

R13 vs Central Coast Mariners | Sat 12 Jan | 7.35pm | Westpac | #KidsGoFree

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