​Is this the weakest Phoenix team ever?

Trialist
63
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110
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over 11 years

I hate to be the person who says the glass is half empty, but we’ve got a team of no hope.

Look at the squad from Saturday.

Player by player, we’re simply not good enough to challenge for a top 6 spot.

Krishna has lost his magic touch.

Burns has since he returned, looked appalling. Definitely not the same player.

Doyle – mediocre and has always been. Tells us how weak the team is, since we haven't got an alternative

Durante – way too old

Steven Taylor – too old and heavy

Mitch Nichols – far beyond his prime

David Williams – far beyond his prime

Alex Rufer – you won’t see a top 6 challenging team with someone like him in the squad

Singh – too light and misses fundamental understanding of where to be placed inside the box, when a cross comes in

Rudan – he can only do his best with such a weak squad

We’re 3 seasons into our 4 year contract. I know it’s early days, but we haven’t improved.

And even worse, our squad looks worse than ever.

2016-17: 7th

2017-18: 9th

2018-19: Currently 9th

Depressing, but I don’t see us improving.

I hope I’m wrong.

Please someone tell me that I am.

LG
Legend
5.5K
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23K
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over 16 years

Season one. If you were there, then you would know! Classic comedy defending. Plodder, Old, O'Dor, Dodd, Cleberson......

Starting XI
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2.4K
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over 8 years

danepak wrote:

I hate to be the person who says the glass is half empty, but we’ve got a team of no hope.

Look at the squad from Saturday.

Player by player, we’re simply not good enough to challenge for a top 6 spot.

Krishna has lost his magic touch.

Burns has since he returned, looked appalling. Definitely not the same player.

Doyle – mediocre and has always been. Tells us how weak the team is, since we haven't got an alternative

Durante – way too old

Steven Taylor – too old and heavy

Mitch Nichols – far beyond his prime

David Williams – far beyond his prime

Alex Rufer – you won’t see a top 6 challenging team with someone like him in the squad

Singh – too light and misses fundamental understanding of where to be placed inside the box, when a cross comes in

Rudan – he can only do his best with such a weak squad

We’re 3 seasons into our 4 year contract. I know it’s early days, but we haven’t improved.

And even worse, our squad looks worse than ever.

2016-17: 7th

2017-18: 9th

2018-19: Currently 9th

Depressing, but I don’t see us improving.

I hope I’m wrong.

Please someone tell me that I am.

Steven Taylor looks absolutely ripped so you're wrong about him being heavy - the rest I have to agree although Rufer has been significantly better than expected for me
Marquee
970
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6.5K
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over 11 years

Nelfoos wrote:

danepak wrote:

I hate to be the person who says the glass is half empty, but we’ve got a team of no hope.

Look at the squad from Saturday.

Player by player, we’re simply not good enough to challenge for a top 6 spot.

Krishna has lost his magic touch.

Burns has since he returned, looked appalling. Definitely not the same player.

Doyle – mediocre and has always been. Tells us how weak the team is, since we haven't got an alternative

Durante – way too old

Steven Taylor – too old and heavy

Mitch Nichols – far beyond his prime

David Williams – far beyond his prime

Alex Rufer – you won’t see a top 6 challenging team with someone like him in the squad

Singh – too light and misses fundamental understanding of where to be placed inside the box, when a cross comes in

Rudan – he can only do his best with such a weak squad

We’re 3 seasons into our 4 year contract. I know it’s early days, but we haven’t improved.

And even worse, our squad looks worse than ever.

2016-17: 7th

2017-18: 9th

2018-19: Currently 9th

Depressing, but I don’t see us improving.

I hope I’m wrong.

Please someone tell me that I am.

Steven Taylor looks absolutely ripped so you're wrong about him being heavy - the rest I have to agree although Rufer has been significantly better than expected for me

Rufer and Doyle were the only NZ born players left on the pitch end of game.

First Team Squad
200
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1.4K
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almost 17 years

Can't disagree with any of this sadly. Add in players like Fenton who couldn't even cope in the ISPS and a few Aussie journeyman and it gives a realistic indication of where the squad is at. 

I would argue Kurto is the only player in the team who would stroll into another squad. Mandi and Kops I actually don't think the talent is lacking, just the players around them are completely wrong. 

Marquee
2.7K
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7.2K
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almost 17 years

Disagree on the following:
- Taylor - playing quite well. Solid, fit, pushes forward whenever he can.

- Williams - definitely improving and worthy of a spot. It doesn't help that we don't know what to do with the ball once we cross our half way line.

- Doyle - I'd say average but not mediocre. He's fit as a fiddle, bombs forward. Has limitations but we could do worse.

- 50/50 on Krishna and Rufer.  The former can still be a threat, but like Williams suffers from the long ball type game we play/lack of creativity.  The latter is doing really well considering his age and limited experience (mainly off the bench appearances) - and could develop into a decent MF.

Everything else I agree with.

Legend
8K
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14K
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over 16 years
We are playing the wrong kind of football for Krishna and Williams to be effective, and to and extent Burns (although I think his ship has sailed, with his desire to play along for the ride). Neither Krishna or Willams are going to do well leaping for crosses into the box, the need ball to feet in a one on one with a CB to be effective. At the moment they are simply not getting the right kind of delivery from their midfield. The wide shape we play with wing backs probably doesn't help.
Starting XI
480
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2.1K
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over 14 years

Oh go on, i've been thinking this for a couple of week now, are we seriously supposed to believe that Rudan was ever in the running for the Sydney job? 

I don't think this is our weakest team. I do think we have a coach who wants to play football in a way his players are not set up to do. Aerial balls into our front three is ludicrious given their proportions.

Trialist
63
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110
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over 11 years

Lonegunmen wrote:

Season one. If you were there, then you would know! Classic comedy defending. Plodder, Old, O'Dor, Dodd, Cleberson......

Yep, I was there from day one (2-2 vs Victory)

First Team Squad
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over 14 years

zonknz wrote:

Oh go on, i've been thinking this for a couple of week now, are we seriously supposed to believe that Rudan was ever in the running for the Sydney job? 

I don't think this is our weakest team. I do think we have a coach who wants to play football in a way his players are not set up to do. Aerial balls into our front three is ludicrious given their proportions.

I don't see Rudan's tactic as aerial balls into the front three as in route one style, he's clearly not an idiot - what I think he is trying to make happen is to compress the play when the opposition is in our half, turn the ball over quickly and launch the ball out into vacated areas on the wings for a quick counter. That the balls happen to head out that way in the air, and that some of the players aren't technically proficient enough to make the required passes on the ground every time doesn't mean we are purposefully going route one. It's a valid tactic with the squad we have, it's just not working right now. It worked very well against MVFC in the pre-season game.

Starting XI
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over 5 years

djtim3000 wrote:

zonknz wrote:

Oh go on, i've been thinking this for a couple of week now, are we seriously supposed to believe that Rudan was ever in the running for the Sydney job? 

I don't think this is our weakest team. I do think we have a coach who wants to play football in a way his players are not set up to do. Aerial balls into our front three is ludicrious given their proportions.

I don't see Rudan's tactic as aerial balls into the front three as in route one style, he's clearly not an idiot - what I think he is trying to make happen is to compress the play when the opposition is in our half, turn the ball over quickly and launch the ball out into vacated areas on the wings for a quick counter. That the balls happen to head out that way in the air, and that some of the players aren't technically proficient enough to make the required passes on the ground every time doesn't mean we are purposefully going route one. It's a valid tactic with the squad we have, it's just not working right now. It worked very well against MVFC in the pre-season game.

Yes I agree. But other teams have figured this out. So somewhere along the line we need to play with some variation to keep opposition guessing.

Legend
6.8K
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14K
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over 16 years

don't think we can see this team as anything but a work in progress. First year Ricki. Thing is, even then, we had Felipe, Daniel, Brown and Smeltzy. More than anything we need some enthusiasm- Rufer raRking up the crowd, energy for the club.

Starting XI
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4.5K
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over 16 years

martinb wrote:

don't think we can see this team as anything but a work in progress. First year Ricki. Thing is, even then, we had Felipe, Daniel, Brown and Smeltzy. More than anything we need some enthusiasm- Rufer raking up the crowd, energy for the club.

Could maybe rake some forests this week for training.

Starting XI
480
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2.1K
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over 14 years

djtim3000 wrote:

 he's clearly not an idiot.

I am going to give him time, but the tactical approach and style of play is very fixed, and not well suited to the players we have. Unfair to call him an idiot as a manager - yet - but he has some work to do to prove himself flexible and adaptive. So hopefully he's not (an idiot) but these are early days.

Cock
2.7K
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16K
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over 14 years

zonknz wrote:

djtim3000 wrote:

 he's clearly not an idiot.

I am going to give him time, but the tactical approach and style of play is very fixed, and not well suited to the players we have. Unfair to call him an idiot as a manager - yet - but he has some work to do to prove himself flexible and adaptive. So hopefully he's not (an idiot) but these are early days.

huh?

He has tried different formations and different players. How is that inflexible?

WeeNix
500
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800
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about 10 years

Against Melbourne City the set up was Five  at the back,Two   Defensive midfielders  at times playing amongst the back Five and that left Three others ( the poor buggers) to cover the mid field and the attack which was mission impossible.

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
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about 17 years

what i don't get is all the hard as nails talk and no backward step nonsense. we were crap and now we're worse. on that basis alone rudan has so far been an abject failure

however, imo he gave us 40 minutes of hope on saturday, and i think we're in a worse state than anyone realised, and who else would have us?

all of which makes it difficult to judge just how good or bad rudan actually is

in fact the biggest clue that he is crap is that he is coaching us in the first place ;-)

Starting XI
280
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2.7K
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over 16 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

zonknz wrote:

djtim3000 wrote:

 he's clearly not an idiot.

I am going to give him time, but the tactical approach and style of play is very fixed, and not well suited to the players we have. Unfair to call him an idiot as a manager - yet - but he has some work to do to prove himself flexible and adaptive. So hopefully he's not (an idiot) but these are early days.

huh?

He has tried different formations and different players. How is that inflexible?

Only after going behind in games, and I'm pretty sure that in the last two he has waited until they were two goals down. The basic shape and style has been the same from the start in every game, the only difference being that the full-backs try and join the attack when playing at home.


I think that Rudan's game plan is pretty much to put up the shutters and try to use set-pieces as the main goal-scoring method. It's hard to tell if that's because he has such little faith in the squad or if that is just his footballing philosophy. I don't think that's an effective long-term strategy for a team to develop around unless your highest ambition is mid-table, and it certainly doesn't look like a viable short-term strategy at the moment either. 

Watching the Nix at the moment I see a team that is always going to concede eventually, and that only looks dangerous in attack because the front three are quick and technical. The only time they get more than 3 or 4 players forward is at set pieces and as a result the three goals scored so far have been the result of, in order, a free-kick, a penalty, and a corner. The squad isn't great, but I think Rudan is playing a losing strategy.

Starting XI
1.7K
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2.9K
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over 16 years

danepak wrote:

I hate to be the person who says the glass is half empty, but we’ve got a team of no hope.

Look at the squad from Saturday.

Player by player, we’re simply not good enough to challenge for a top 6 spot.

Krishna has lost his magic touch.

Burns has since he returned, looked appalling. Definitely not the same player.

Doyle – mediocre and has always been. Tells us how weak the team is, since we haven't got an alternative

Durante – way too old

Steven Taylor – too old and heavy

Mitch Nichols – far beyond his prime

David Williams – far beyond his prime

Alex Rufer – you won’t see a top 6 challenging team with someone like him in the squad

Singh – too light and misses fundamental understanding of where to be placed inside the box, when a cross comes in

Rudan – he can only do his best with such a weak squad

We’re 3 seasons into our 4 year contract. I know it’s early days, but we haven’t improved.

And even worse, our squad looks worse than ever.

2016-17: 7th

2017-18: 9th

2018-19: Currently 9th

Depressing, but I don’t see us improving.

I hope I’m wrong.

Please someone tell me that I am.

Burns look junk, and Nicholas and Williams look past their best and not likely to set the world alight. Rufer probably not good enough, and Durante too old. Taylor looks pretty damn good to me, and I like Doyle tbh - just not last week! Kurto looks great. Yeah, our team ain't the best, but it ain't the worst we have had, as others have pointed out. 
Trialist
63
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110
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over 11 years

Fenix wrote:

danepak wrote:

I hate to be the person who says the glass is half empty, but we’ve got a team of no hope.

Look at the squad from Saturday.

Player by player, we’re simply not good enough to challenge for a top 6 spot.

Krishna has lost his magic touch.

Burns has since he returned, looked appalling. Definitely not the same player.

Doyle – mediocre and has always been. Tells us how weak the team is, since we haven't got an alternative

Durante – way too old

Steven Taylor – too old and heavy

Mitch Nichols – far beyond his prime

David Williams – far beyond his prime

Alex Rufer – you won’t see a top 6 challenging team with someone like him in the squad

Singh – too light and misses fundamental understanding of where to be placed inside the box, when a cross comes in

Rudan – he can only do his best with such a weak squad

We’re 3 seasons into our 4 year contract. I know it’s early days, but we haven’t improved.

And even worse, our squad looks worse than ever.

2016-17: 7th

2017-18: 9th

2018-19: Currently 9th

Depressing, but I don’t see us improving.

I hope I’m wrong.

Please someone tell me that I am.

Burns look junk, and Nicholas and Williams look past their best and not likely to set the world alight. Rufer probably not good enough, and Durante too old. Taylor looks pretty damn good to me, and I like Doyle tbh - just not last week! Kurto looks great. Yeah, our team ain't the best, but it ain't the worst we have had, as others have pointed out. 

With our existence hanging in a thin thread, shouldn't we be fielding something better?

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
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about 17 years

no one looks great in a poorly functioning team and it becomes quite difficult to assess who has it and who doesn't in these situations

Starting XI
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2.4K
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over 14 years
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over 16 years

Lonegunmen wrote:

Season one. If you were there, then you would know! Classic comedy defending. Plodder, Old, O'Dor, Dodd, Cleberson......

Sod Off that was the greatest team this city has ever produced. 

valeo
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Legend
4.6K
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18K
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almost 17 years

Nowhere near our worst squad/team ever - but the rest of the league has improved and we haven't kept up.

Lowry off the bench to man mark Castro shows our lack of options.

First Team Squad
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almost 10 years

valeo wrote:

Nowhere near our worst squad/team ever - but the rest of the league has improved and we haven't kept up.

Lowry off the bench to man mark Castro shows our lack of options.

It was working... for 5 minutes. And we had to waste a sub on Kurto at the start anyway, so we were already down a sub.

WeeNix
500
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800
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about 10 years

Singh showed that he is a quality player and he will only get better.  His first half performance was very good

It also helps when the team has an attacking mindset.

Marquee
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6.6K
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over 13 years

valeo wrote:

Nowhere near our worst squad/team ever - but the rest of the league has improved and we haven't kept up.

Lowry off the bench to man mark Castro shows our lack of options.

It was working... for 5 minutes. And we had to waste a sub on Kurto at the start anyway, so we were already down a sub.

Steady on. It was a workplace accident. That's what subs are for.

First Team Squad
980
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1.4K
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almost 10 years

Mainland FC wrote:

valeo wrote:

Nowhere near our worst squad/team ever - but the rest of the league has improved and we haven't kept up.

Lowry off the bench to man mark Castro shows our lack of options.

It was working... for 5 minutes. And we had to waste a sub on Kurto at the start anyway, so we were already down a sub.

Steady on. It was a workplace accident. That's subs are for.

Come on, you know what I meant Mainland! Waste probably was the wrong word, but I meant it as in 'using a sub outside of our control'

Opinion Privileges revoked
4.5K
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9.7K
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over 14 years
and 5 others
Opinion Privileges revoked
4.5K
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9.7K
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over 14 years

danepak wrote:

I hate to be the person who says the glass is half empty, but we’ve got a team of no hope.

...

Krishna has lost his magic touch.

...


Steven Taylor – too old and heavy

...

David Williams – far beyond his prime

...

Alex Rufer – you won’t see a top 6 challenging team with someone like him in the squad

Singh – too light and misses fundamental understanding of where to be placed inside the box, when a cross comes in


Opinion Privileges revoked
4.5K
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9.7K
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over 14 years

I don't requote to get at danepark in particular; but to point out how ridiculous we all look when we're overreacting to setbacks.

(Or getting all excited about bright patches, hint hint)

First Team Squad
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over 5 years

Have to say this thread made me lol when I first read it a few weeks back. Not sure about others but I was actually impressed with the team to start off with. There were positive signs and I could see what Rudan was trying. Then it went mental for a few weeks and they got their stuff in order again. Really hoping that this is more like the team I was expecting to see this season ?

First Team Squad
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almost 10 years

Doloras wrote:

I don't requote to get at danepark in particular; but to point out how ridiculous we all look when we're overreacting to setbacks.

(Or getting all excited about bright patches, hint hint)

It just shows people have regained their passion for the club. What's the world game without getting a bit excited for your club that has otherwise struggled in recent times. The negativity I felt was unwarranted this season, but now that we are playing better, I'm happy to let people enjoy it.

First Team Squad
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over 6 years

Second best start ever to a season and fifth equal at Christmas. This thread has aged horrifically

Marquee
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about 17 years

weirdly, on paper I still think the team is relatively weak but big players are having a really big impact. Steven Taylor is bringing out the best in Dura, Mandi is making Rufer look like the star Hudson said he was and the keeper seems to radiate calm, even though he hasn't had an awful lot to do. 

One in a million
4K
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9.5K
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almost 17 years

Rudan has got the boys playing with belief and up to near their potential. Makes a massive difference.

Woof Woof
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19K
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over 16 years

james dean wrote:

weirdly, on paper I still think the team is relatively weak but big players are having a really big impact. Steven Taylor is bringing out the best in Dura, Mandi is making Rufer look like the star Hudson said he was and the keeper seems to radiate calm, even though he hasn't had an awful lot to do. 

Yeah I think this is a classic example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. And I'd also say that Singh is a huge difference maker and the most exciting talent the club's ever had along with Marco. 

However it will only get harder from here. We've already played half of our actual home games, and there's still two-thirds of the season left. The biggest challenge for the Nix has always been consistency, especially given the amount of travel involved, and we're about to hit that stretch.

and 1 other
Starting XI
3.8K
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3.5K
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almost 10 years

Doloras wrote:

I don't requote to get at danepark in particular; but to point out how ridiculous we all look when we're overreacting to setbacks.

(Or getting all excited about bright patches, hint hint)

Getting all excited about bright patches is the only way I get through stretches of set backs.

Trialist
34
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77
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over 14 years

james dean wrote:

weirdly, on paper I still think the team is relatively weak but big players are having a really big impact. Steven Taylor is bringing out the best in Dura, Mandi is making Rufer look like the star Hudson said he was and the keeper seems to radiate calm, even though he hasn't had an awful lot to do. 

Actually been very impressed with Mandi, has more than covered for the loss of Roly. Was worried he was going to be the type of player to drift in and out of games and only give 10 minute spurts (which Roly also did to be fair) ... but now he has his match fitness up seems to be really relishing in conducting the midfield.

Starting XI
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almost 7 years

jono_t2000 wrote:

james dean wrote:

weirdly, on paper I still think the team is relatively weak but big players are having a really big impact. Steven Taylor is bringing out the best in Dura, Mandi is making Rufer look like the star Hudson said he was and the keeper seems to radiate calm, even though he hasn't had an awful lot to do. 

Actually been very impressed with Mandi, has more than covered for the loss of Roly. Was worried he was going to be the type of player to drift in and out of games and only give 10 minute spurts (which Roly also did to be fair) ... but now he has his match fitness up seems to be really relishing in conducting the midfield.

Think he means that having the experience and talent of Mandi next to him is allowing Rufer to shine

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