A league 2nd division - the chat that just won't go away

Global Game
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This chat has spiked up on social and broadcast media recently.

A February 2016, 4,000 word, article  by Shaun Mooney at Leopold Method is a fantastic clear-eyed background summary.

http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-th...

I'll leave 2 tidbits here. Consume the whole article. You will be well fed.

Gallop also revealed a clause within the A-League participation agreement which:

“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that an A-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”

and...

During the Victorian clubs’ stand-off over the NPL plan, a financial model presented showed that 94% of revenue was derived from three main sources – registration fees (68.1%), canteen (19.7%) and sponsorship (15.5%). Leopold Method has analysed the financial reports of various NPL clubs, and for most of the clubs, these revenue sources have barely changed since the introduction of the new competition, with some clubs deriving up to 80% of their revenue from registration fees. The clubs, the national and state federations have found it difficult to attract corporate sponsorship dollars for the NPL.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

ConanTroutman
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Geography really works against this. But also, how many A League sides have already gone bust? Auckland, Gold Coast, NQ - any more? We almost did, and the Jest, Mariners, and even Brisbane have all come close too. The model of promotion/relegation just doesn't account for the actual operating environment of the A League. In fact the A League exists in its franchise form because the old club model was unsustainable. 

It's nice to daydream about this idea but there just doesn't seem to be any way it could be viable in the foreseeable future.

Let's get the current setup working and look to expand to at least 16 A League sides before even thinking about a second tier.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

QBoyd
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So, according to the WOFP, NZF have <20 years to join Asia or the Nix are kick from Aussie national comps. The article states that the WOFP has bought the FFA 20 years. At the conclusion of that period, when presumably AFC will begin threatening Oz with revoking it's membership, then FFA will have to actively look to introduce relegation. If the Nix licence is tedious now, there's now way it would work with promotion/relegation in a league of a seperate confederation.

This wouldn't be a problem if NZF was in Asia. FFA would just have to incorporate the NZFC into the NPL system. But there's no way NZF is joining Asia in the next 20 years. Putting geography aside, NZF can't even operate a fax machine, let alone send an email!

We've got no wind, no rain and Paul Ifill...

QBoyd
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Geography really works against this. But also, how many A League sides have already gone bust? Auckland, Gold Coast, NQ - any more? We almost did, and the Jest, Mariners, and even Brisbane have all come close too. The model of promotion/relegation just doesn't account for the actual operating environment of the A League. In fact the A League exists in its franchise form because the old club model was unsustainable. 

It's nice to daydream about this idea but there just doesn't seem to be any way it could be viable in the foreseeable future.

Let's get the current setup working and look to expand to at least 16 A League sides before even thinking about a second tier.

Technically, Jets did go bust. The Jets of this season is a different thing from last season, isn't it?

We've got no wind, no rain and Paul Ifill...

ConanTroutman
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QBoyd wrote:

Geography really works against this. But also, how many A League sides have already gone bust? Auckland, Gold Coast, NQ - any more? We almost did, and the Jest, Mariners, and even Brisbane have all come close too. The model of promotion/relegation just doesn't account for the actual operating environment of the A League. In fact the A League exists in its franchise form because the old club model was unsustainable. 

It's nice to daydream about this idea but there just doesn't seem to be any way it could be viable in the foreseeable future.

Let's get the current setup working and look to expand to at least 16 A League sides before even thinking about a second tier.

Technically, Jets did go bust. The Jets of this season is a different thing from last season, isn't it?

Yeah pretty much. The club still exists though, as opposed to the other 3 who are no longer with us. But yeah, the point is that Australia can barely sustain 9 fully professional football clubs at a national level (plus one in NZ) so how would relegation work? 

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

QBoyd
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QBoyd wrote:

Geography really works against this. But also, how many A League sides have already gone bust? Auckland, Gold Coast, NQ - any more? We almost did, and the Jest, Mariners, and even Brisbane have all come close too. The model of promotion/relegation just doesn't account for the actual operating environment of the A League. In fact the A League exists in its franchise form because the old club model was unsustainable. 

It's nice to daydream about this idea but there just doesn't seem to be any way it could be viable in the foreseeable future.

Let's get the current setup working and look to expand to at least 16 A League sides before even thinking about a second tier.

Technically, Jets did go bust. The Jets of this season is a different thing from last season, isn't it?

Yeah pretty much. The club still exists though, as opposed to the other 3 who are no longer with us. But yeah, the point is that Australia can barely sustain 9 fully professional football clubs at a national level (plus one in NZ) so how would relegation work? 

It won't. There are still places in Oz that could support pro football, given the same conditions and safety nets as the other franchises (Canberra, Wollongong) but a professional second tier won't be viable for a long time, and trying to go from semi-pro to pro on the level of the A-League is an absurd proposition. Not that the A-League would be sustainable in its current form with promotion/relegation. Salary cap would have to go, and then you'd see the elitism and seen in the BPL, where (usually) only money talks and clubs are often relegated straight back down.

We've got no wind, no rain and Paul Ifill...

Ryan
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Adelaide was close as well if rumors are correct.

Global Game
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This weekend the NSW NPL is celebrating HERITAGE ROUND. All the PR stories are about past glories - but none allude to their current and future aspirations. FFA knows they needs these clubs, but won't allow them to flourish - as they are intent on keeping it a closed system for as long as they can.

Edited by Global Game May 25, 2016 13:58

Kotahitanga. We are one.

QBoyd
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Global Game wrote:

This weekend the NSW NPL is celebrating HERITAGE ROUND. All the PR stories are about past glories - but none allude to their current and future aspirations. FFA knows they needs these clubs, but won't allow them to flourish - as they are intent on keeping it a closed system for as long as they can.

I feel a bit sad saying this, but it's best for us if they aren't allowed to flourish.

In saying that, I reckon they should've let South Melbourne take over Heart.

We've got no wind, no rain and Paul Ifill...

djtim3000
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I can't believe otherwise seemingly intelligent people keep on bringing this up - there is not enough money, fans or even players of a high enough quality to justify a promotion and relegation system in Australian football and there never will be. An A-league club would not survive a demotion so there would never be any investment, the whole thing would be a huge downward money sucking spiral.

The best way to create engagement from grassroots supporters... invest in youth and player development at the lower levels to develop realistic pathways for players to get signed by A-league teams. What loyal fan wouldn't want to see their local star perform in a fully professional environment after coming up through the clubs age-group system?

This requires sustainable growth at the top level to increase the number of teams and therefore number of roster spots available, and not going after ridiculous fairy-tale ideals such as promotion and relegation for seemingly no reason other than because that's how it's done in other countries.

QBoyd
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djtim3000 wrote:

I can't believe otherwise seemingly intelligent people keep on bringing this up - there is not enough money, fans or even players of a high enough quality to justify a promotion and relegation system in Australian football and there never will be. An A-league club would not survive a demotion so there would never be any investment, the whole thing would be a huge downward money sucking spiral.

The best way to create engagement from grassroots supporters... invest in youth and player development at the lower levels to develop realistic pathways for players to get signed by A-league teams. What loyal fan wouldn't want to see their local star perform in a fully professional environment after coming up through the clubs age-group system?

This requires sustainable growth at the top level to increase the number of teams and therefore number of roster spots available, and not going after ridiculous fairy-tale ideals such as promotion and relegation for seemingly no reason other than because that's how it's done in other countries.

The problem is people can't stop thinking about it. In Australia a good chunk of the football fans are expats from countries with these systems, or are old enough to remember their pre-franchise clubs. Naturally the clubs themselves want to progress and because FFA has to keep them happy, they can't say it won't happen, even if they feel it isn't possible.

We've got no wind, no rain and Paul Ifill...

RR
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Blew.2
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  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

                                                      

Blew.2
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  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

                                                      

Blew.2
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Blew.2 wrote:

We are not going away

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

                                                      

RR
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el grapadura
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Good to see that AAFC is fully cognisant of the position the game is in in Australia.

coochiee
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The Tee Dubs sausage sizzle (with onions) seems the perfect template for funding the 2nd tier. Idea to be submitted as a 30 page document/power point with photos. CCM giant sauce bottles (with real sauce) at all stadia.

el grapadura
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coochiee wrote:

The Tee Dubs sausage sizzle (with onions) 

I'm there.

RR
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el grapadura wrote:

Good to see that AAFC is fully cognisant of the position the game is in in Australia.

Ah yes but these are real clubs .... with pokies.

Atm, it is just 30 teams getting together to decide the framework for a NSD. So just another football committee

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