A-league Expansion - Derbies

coochiee
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ClubOranje wrote:

coochiee wrote:

martinb wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Judean People's Front at war, with the People's Front of Judea.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/centra...

Hopefully some more flexible neighbourly views prevail going forward. Eden Park is a fantastic facility but has been hamstrung in recent times by some very vocal and politically powerful anti local residents. No need for a new national stadium on the waterfront if Eden Park could be used for the reason it was built. 

Aw, nah. They can have a lot of events there. It's used for the rugby and cricket it was designed for.

It's just rugby and cricket local games don't sell tickets. Suspect with the timing there's some astro-turfing with this group. They're showing up late in the piece. 

Well no. The above Stuff article quotes a charity Phil Collins concert being canned, because of objections from local residents. That's just one example. I'm sure other planned events incl concerts, have also had to be canned or taken elsewhere.

NZ Cricket have definitely taken games away from Auckland.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/cricket/cric...

"We all would've wanted to play more cricket, more of the India tour at Eden Park, but unfortunately we can't," he said.

"We've got some restrictions around how late they can go."

The ground is essentially unusable because India's bosses and broadcasters want matches to start later in the day, which sees it clash with resource consent Crummy said.

When Eden Park was opened in 1900, Greater Auckland's population was only around 100,000. Incidentally, Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin all had quite similar populations at the end of the 19th century! Consider that for a moment.

The needs of Auckland have vastly changed in the last 119 years. It's a city with restrictive geography and an ongoing housing shortage. Bowl over EP, build housing there, and open a new stadium away from residential areas, that's easily accessible by public transport. If it can be done for 'free' as part of some land swap deal, all the better. 

Keeping EP no 2 as a boutique ground, on a small footprint was an idea I had, but may just not be feasible. And if you could still create a good atmosphere at any new stadium, for those games with smaller crowds (15,000 & less) - through clever acoustics, closing top tiers etc - then you just need the new stadium. As long as it's a rectangle!

So called restrictions at Eden Park wouldn't affect it as a football stadium as the times and noise levels would comfortably comply.

The problem with the cricket was they wanted to start later to suit India television audiences, which meant running through to 11:30 ish, which is certainly no fun for residents on a week night, and even weekends for some given it takes a while for the crowd to file out and disperse, and normally noisy after the cricket because you have several thousand people having sat around drinking for six hours.

The concerts were similar problems with wanting to start after it goes dark - outdoor concerts always have more atmosphere after sunset - so they would run too late and be too noisy. 

Auckland Penguins v Wellington Phoenix, or any other side for that matter, if not afternoon game would kick off 7:35 latest and be done by 9:30

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/379807/ede...

Under the Auckland Unitary plan, which sets how many events Eden Park can hold, the venue is allowed to hold 25 night events and six concerts a year.

Mr Goff said he's not prepared to just let Eden Park go bust as it's the closest venue New Zealand has to a national stadium.

He said the council could allow Eden Park to host more events each year to generate more revenue, but that idea has its own problems.

"That is an option, not an easy option because Eden Park is situated right in the middle of a residential area.

"Actually to make a stadium pay these days you've got to try to work it 24/7 - you've got to have all sporting codes at it, you've got to have concerts.

"There are problems with them in holding concerts in terms of getting resource consent, they are coming nowhere near the utilisation of the 25 night events and some of the problems go way beyond that as the report points out," Mr Goff said.


So with 6-8 Blues home games, 2 All Black tests, say 4 Auckland ITM Cup rugby night games, 2-3 international cricket ODI & 20/20 games, a 5 day/night cricket test - that would leave about  3-6 nights available for the Auckland Penguins. Problem.

That's not counting the odd Warriors/Kiwis league game at EP. 

As Mayor Goff says you need your stadium to be booked as often as possible, to have the revenue coming in pay costs. Has EP ever hosted a music concert? Thought I read somewhere it hasn't. Madness really if not. The current restrictions are just financial suicide.

When I lived in Brisbane (similar sized city to Akld, and Suncorp similar size stadium to EP), the new Lang Park was always holding music concerts. Doesn't do the playing surface any favours for football, but sure helps to pay the bills. Then you have the Reds (rugby), Broncos (league) & Roar all playing night games with no restrictions at all.

martinb
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coochiee wrote:

ClubOranje wrote:

coochiee wrote:

martinb wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Judean People's Front at war, with the People's Front of Judea.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/centra...

Hopefully some more flexible neighbourly views prevail going forward. Eden Park is a fantastic facility but has been hamstrung in recent times by some very vocal and politically powerful anti local residents. No need for a new national stadium on the waterfront if Eden Park could be used for the reason it was built. 

Aw, nah. They can have a lot of events there. It's used for the rugby and cricket it was designed for.

It's just rugby and cricket local games don't sell tickets. Suspect with the timing there's some astro-turfing with this group. They're showing up late in the piece. 

Well no. The above Stuff article quotes a charity Phil Collins concert being canned, because of objections from local residents. That's just one example. I'm sure other planned events incl concerts, have also had to be canned or taken elsewhere.

NZ Cricket have definitely taken games away from Auckland.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/cricket/cric...

"We all would've wanted to play more cricket, more of the India tour at Eden Park, but unfortunately we can't," he said.

"We've got some restrictions around how late they can go."

The ground is essentially unusable because India's bosses and broadcasters want matches to start later in the day, which sees it clash with resource consent Crummy said.

When Eden Park was opened in 1900, Greater Auckland's population was only around 100,000. Incidentally, Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin all had quite similar populations at the end of the 19th century! Consider that for a moment.

The needs of Auckland have vastly changed in the last 119 years. It's a city with restrictive geography and an ongoing housing shortage. Bowl over EP, build housing there, and open a new stadium away from residential areas, that's easily accessible by public transport. If it can be done for 'free' as part of some land swap deal, all the better. 

Keeping EP no 2 as a boutique ground, on a small footprint was an idea I had, but may just not be feasible. And if you could still create a good atmosphere at any new stadium, for those games with smaller crowds (15,000 & less) - through clever acoustics, closing top tiers etc - then you just need the new stadium. As long as it's a rectangle!

So called restrictions at Eden Park wouldn't affect it as a football stadium as the times and noise levels would comfortably comply.

The problem with the cricket was they wanted to start later to suit India television audiences, which meant running through to 11:30 ish, which is certainly no fun for residents on a week night, and even weekends for some given it takes a while for the crowd to file out and disperse, and normally noisy after the cricket because you have several thousand people having sat around drinking for six hours.

The concerts were similar problems with wanting to start after it goes dark - outdoor concerts always have more atmosphere after sunset - so they would run too late and be too noisy. 

Auckland Penguins v Wellington Phoenix, or any other side for that matter, if not afternoon game would kick off 7:35 latest and be done by 9:30

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/379807/ede...

Under the Auckland Unitary plan, which sets how many events Eden Park can hold, the venue is allowed to hold 25 night events and six concerts a year.

Mr Goff said he's not prepared to just let Eden Park go bust as it's the closest venue New Zealand has to a national stadium.

He said the council could allow Eden Park to host more events each year to generate more revenue, but that idea has its own problems.

"That is an option, not an easy option because Eden Park is situated right in the middle of a residential area.

"Actually to make a stadium pay these days you've got to try to work it 24/7 - you've got to have all sporting codes at it, you've got to have concerts.

"There are problems with them in holding concerts in terms of getting resource consent, they are coming nowhere near the utilisation of the 25 night events and some of the problems go way beyond that as the report points out," Mr Goff said.


So with 6-8 Blues home games, 2 All Black tests, say 4 Auckland ITM Cup rugby night games, 2-3 international cricket ODI & 20/20 games, a 5 day/night cricket test - that would leave about  3-6 nights available for the Auckland Penguins. Problem.

That's not counting the odd Warriors/Kiwis league game at EP. 

As Mayor Goff says you need your stadium to be booked as often as possible, to have the revenue coming in pay costs. Has EP ever hosted a music concert? Thought I read somewhere it hasn't. Madness really if not. The current restrictions are just financial suicide.

When I lived in Brisbane (similar sized city to Akld, and Suncorp similar size stadium to EP), the new Lang Park was always holding music concerts. Doesn't do the playing surface any favours for football, but sure helps to pay the bills. Then you have the Reds (rugby), Broncos (league) & Roar all playing night games with no restrictions at all.

The problem is not Eden Park or the residents. It's broadcasters who have changed sport to a night event for TV viewers and if I recall the first Adelaide (?) day night test had half the crowd under the stands drinking in onsite bars. Go to the sport to not watch, or to glance at a tele.

Stadiums in Auckland are a basket case. But so is a fair slice of pro-sport in general. 

All the famous concerts have been at Western Springs and Mt Smart. Recent ones indoor at Vector. Can't recall anything of musical significance at Eden Park.

Mt Eden, New North Rd, Dom Rd and Sandringham Rd is fairly heavy residential area. Not much park or industrial buffer.

And lets be honest- a football club from with fresh momentum has got to at least compete with the free entry games in the ITM cup! It would be scheduling against the cricket season mostly though- but could be a good double header with local T20 on the outer oval- anyone do both? 

Local broadcast blackouts until the stadiums have sold out for national teams at least is a good idea too. Is the case in Aussie.

pacy

coochiee
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coochiee
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Taken from "National League review and future" thread as getting off topic.

coochiee wrote:

The inclusion of an Auckland team, presumes A League is expanded further to say 16 teams, or more.

So that means 14 Aussie teams, or at least 5 games a week, not involving a Kiwi side. That's one more non-Kiwi weekly game than current.

Look who knows. Unless Morrison is spinning BS, the other A League owners are at least interested in looking at a 2nd team from NZ.

The NLWG if it ends up running the League, wants more income for the clubs not less. I imagine they will consider all options that enable that, whatever they are. Will Fox have the same power, if a NLWG model is running the league. Who really knows.

[quote=el grapadura]

Of course Fox will have power, that's where the $$$ come from. No TV deal = league financial viability almost non-existent. I doubt that the owners of current clubs in Australia are super keen on the expansion for a number of reasons, but they have to embrace it if they want to get support to get to run the league.

As for Morrison's comments about Auckland, I suspect it's little more than a strategic ploy to underscore the potential of the NZ market to those in Australia whi have serious doubts about it (and by extension, doubts about the Nix too).

[quote=reubee]

Having 2 or more NZ teams helps with the TV scheduling. The draw can be arranged so that there is always 1 game in NZ every weekend filling up the first spot in the Fox schedule as well as a permanent spot in the SkyNZ schedule. Look at the Sky Rugby schedule, there is practically always a NZ 7:35pm Friday night and Saturday night game followed by a game in Oz 2 and bit hours later. If there were 4 NZ sides you could achieve something similar.

[quote=el grapadura]

Are you really comparing Super Rugby, with 4 Aus teams in a 16-team competition from 4 different continents, to the A-league?

Re TV Rights money (I see Foxtel's A League contract runs to 2023), is interesting that Telstra paid a whopping $300M to the AFL to broadcast Aussie Rules matches over its Telstra TV service, plus to handsets and digital devices. That's on top of the cash the AFL receives from Fox Sports, and Channel Seven who telecast an average of 3.5 matches per round on free-to-air TV. All 6 year deals.

The NRL have also sold a digital rights package to Telstra. Not sure of the amount.

Now that SBS have been dropped, is Fox the sole broadcaster of A League matches in Australia, ie FFA hasn't sold any free to air games to Channels 7, 9 or 10?  Why haven't they also manged to sell something to Telstra?

Fox Sports seems to have total control of A League coverage, but with the other codes Fox is not the only broadcaster.

el grapadura
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coochiee wrote:
 

Now that SBS have been dropped, is Fox the sole broadcaster of A League matches in Australia, ie FFA hasn't sold any free to air games to Channels 7, 9 or 10?  Why haven't they also manged to sell something to Telstra?

Fox Sports seems to have total control of A League coverage, but with the other codes Fox is not the only broadcaster.

AFL and NRL games are watched in the hundreds of thousands in Aus, A-league in the tens of thousands (with the occasional big game just creeping into six figures). So guess the demand isn't really there for Telstra or other telcos to fork out a big wad of cash for something that not a lot of people will likely watch.

So guess the challenge is to increase the overall viewership numbers to make deals with other broadcasting partners more viable.

RR
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coochiee
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RR wrote:

Not sure what parallels you can make, but Sydney FC are getting good crowds at Jubilee Oval this season. How many of those are local football fans that would have supported Southern Expansion verus actual current Sydney FC fans who knows. But as a comparison the Nix “home” game verus Sydney at Campbelltown was a complete crowd fizzer. I’m sure there is some at FFA worried they may have made a mistake. Time will tell

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