A-league Expansion - Derbies · Yellow Fever Ngā Wana Kōwhai

George Costanza

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Jeff Vader wrote:

Jerzy: Thats not what I am saying. Its not about the money. Its about the pitiful crowd numbers. As News just highlighted, a bad crowd is Wellington is a great crowd for a former Auckland franchise. Granted the Auckland franchise did not perform but if they were to do so, would the crowds be any better? Even then, to consistently hit that crowd number, that Auckland franchise would have to consistently perform. Across 2 teams and 12 odd season, the Phoenix have done it for 3 of those years.... I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.

Ryan: Canberra or Tasmania. I think you need to make it a geographical spread. Granted they are not the best locations but going back into Adelaide and Brisbane and revisiting GC and NQ would not be smart I think. Again, I also do not think there is an incentive for the FFA to put another team in NZ and would FIFA and AFC approve it?

Absolutely agree. People seem to overlook this, it may be more important than a rich old guy wanting to bankroll a team.

There will be calls again after the game at eden park. (depending on the crowd of course)

January 29, 2013 10:49

patrick478

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Listen here Fudgeface

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Jeff Vader wrote:

Jerzy: Thats not what I am saying. Its not about the money. Its about the pitiful crowd numbers. As News just highlighted, a bad crowd is Wellington is a great crowd for a former Auckland franchise. Granted the Auckland franchise did not perform but if they were to do so, would the crowds be any better? Even then, to consistently hit that crowd number, that Auckland franchise would have to consistently perform. Across 2 teams and 12 odd season, the Phoenix have done it for 3 of those years.... I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.

Ryan: Canberra or Tasmania. I think you need to make it a geographical spread. Granted they are not the best locations but going back into Adelaide and Brisbane and revisiting GC and NQ would not be smart I think. Again, I also do not think there is an incentive for the FFA to put another team in NZ and would FIFA and AFC approve it?

FIFA have always said that if FFA want NZ to be in their league, then they won't oppose it. And now the Bin Hamman has gone I can't see too many problems from AFC.

January 29, 2013 10:49

Jerzy Merino

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[I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.'

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V conservative. As mentioned, a NZ derby between two A-league teams would be awesome. And if an oligarch/backer was prepared to invest in an Auckland team with FFA approval, he and they only need to use Western Sydney Wanderers as the business model.

January 29, 2013 10:54

Jeff Vader

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patrick478 wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Jerzy: Thats not what I am saying. Its not about the money. Its about the pitiful crowd numbers. As News just highlighted, a bad crowd is Wellington is a great crowd for a former Auckland franchise. Granted the Auckland franchise did not perform but if they were to do so, would the crowds be any better? Even then, to consistently hit that crowd number, that Auckland franchise would have to consistently perform. Across 2 teams and 12 odd season, the Phoenix have done it for 3 of those years.... I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.

Ryan: Canberra or Tasmania. I think you need to make it a geographical spread. Granted they are not the best locations but going back into Adelaide and Brisbane and revisiting GC and NQ would not be smart I think. Again, I also do not think there is an incentive for the FFA to put another team in NZ and would FIFA and AFC approve it?

FIFA have always said that if FFA want NZ to be in their league, then they won't oppose it. And now the Bin Hamman has gone I can't see too many problems from AFC.

I would be interested in the stance of OFC. Them and NZF are not exactly the best of friends right now so why would OFC want to further give a leg up to football in NZ and grow the gap between NZ and the island teams? It then also further enforces the idea of NZ leaving OFC which would be the end of OFC and the end of the island rule (not necessarily a bad thing) which is largely self serving against the 'white oppressive slave master' (not a quote just a reference to an us vs them mentality that the island nations have)

January 29, 2013 10:56

Jeff Vader

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Jerzy Merino wrote:

[I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.'

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V conservative. As mentioned, a NZ derby between two A-league teams would be awesome. And if an oligarch/backer was prepared to invest in an Auckland team with FFA approval, he and they only need to use Western Sydney Wanderers as the business model.

Yeah but those 2 teams are in the same town. Auckland and Wellington are 100km apart. Also the population of 4.5 million vs 1.5m here and 300k in Wellington. In Auckland, how many of them give 2 shits about football in a rugby town?

January 29, 2013 10:58 · Edited January 29, 2013 10:58

Bullion

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Jeff Vader wrote:

Jerzy: Thats not what I am saying. Its not about the money. Its about the pitiful crowd numbers. As News just highlighted, a bad crowd is Wellington is a great crowd for a former Auckland franchise. Granted the Auckland franchise did not perform but if they were to do so, would the crowds be any better? Even then, to consistently hit that crowd number, that Auckland franchise would have to consistently perform. Across 2 teams and 12 odd season, the Phoenix have done it for 3 of those years.... I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.

Ryan: Canberra or Tasmania. I think you need to make it a geographical spread. Granted they are not the best locations but going back into Adelaide and Brisbane and revisiting GC and NQ would not be smart I think. Again, I also do not think there is an incentive for the FFA to put another team in NZ and would FIFA and AFC approve it?

You can't use the Kingz and Knights as a an accurate comparison because they operated in a different environment than there is at the moment, there were no other NZ teams and the NSL and the HAL are different, by the time an Auckland franchise could get the go ahead at least, and maybe more than, the salary cap will be covered. I would think that the Phoenix would benefit from having another NZ team in the competition, it will increase the exposure of the competition as a whole and provide us with a shorter distance derby match than our current 'distance derby'.

January 29, 2013 10:58

RR

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Jeff Vader wrote:

Ryan: Canberra or Tasmania. I think you need to make it a geographical spread. Granted they are not the best locations but going back into Adelaide and Brisbane and revisiting GC and NQ would not be smart I think. Again, I also do not think there is an incentive for the FFA to put another team in NZ and would FIFA and AFC approve it?

Completely agree on Canberra but I just can't see Tasmania being viable. 2nd teams for Brisbane & Adelaide would be 15-20 years off at least. GC is a graveyard for professional sports, AFL will keep throwing cash at the GC Suns to keep it alive. If NQ got some wealthy backers, they could eventually come back.

Auckland has over a million more people than other options. It is just too hard to ignore, even with the past failures. I do think it would add value to the league, if done correctly. Just repeating what the Knights did would be doomed for failure. The FFA would get a game in NZ each week, in a TV friendly time zone and a NZ derby would draw big crowds.

Our licence is up for renewal after the 2015/16 season, that is the first stumbling block for any 2nd NZ franchise. I would hope FIFA sees some sense and over rules any AFC objections.

January 29, 2013 10:58

Bullion

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George Costanza wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Jerzy: Thats not what I am saying. Its not about the money. Its about the pitiful crowd numbers. As News just highlighted, a bad crowd is Wellington is a great crowd for a former Auckland franchise. Granted the Auckland franchise did not perform but if they were to do so, would the crowds be any better? Even then, to consistently hit that crowd number, that Auckland franchise would have to consistently perform. Across 2 teams and 12 odd season, the Phoenix have done it for 3 of those years.... I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.

Ryan: Canberra or Tasmania. I think you need to make it a geographical spread. Granted they are not the best locations but going back into Adelaide and Brisbane and revisiting GC and NQ would not be smart I think. Again, I also do not think there is an incentive for the FFA to put another team in NZ and would FIFA and AFC approve it?

Absolutely agree. People seem to overlook this, it may be more important than a rich old guy wanting to bankroll a team.

There will be calls again after the game at eden park. (depending on the crowd of course)

Plenty of incentive: more games, more $. More time slots, more Australian and NZ players playing professionally.

January 29, 2013 11:02

Jeff Vader

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Ok, lets put a 2nd team in Auckland. Purely taking a devils advocate point of view on this, here are a couple of things I could see happening.

1: Not enough Kiwi talent to spread between 2 teams. We are kinda struggling to fill 1 now. Wheel out the equivalent of Seaman, Coombes, Pritchett and Beldham again???

2: Aucklanders may go (and I can see the knitting crew doing this) well you are just a bunch or Aussies or you are stealing our talent or the real NZ talent is at Kiwitea st (or some other conspiracy theory they have)

There are positives to this no doubt but some lessons taught from the past don't die that easy.

January 29, 2013 11:03

Hard News

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Early retirement

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My recollections were that the Kingz peaked at just over 10k in Auckland (the two biggest crowds were in Wellington), and when they weren't good they left in droves.

January 29, 2013 11:05

Jeff Vader

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Bullion wrote:

George Costanza wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Jerzy: Thats not what I am saying. Its not about the money. Its about the pitiful crowd numbers. As News just highlighted, a bad crowd is Wellington is a great crowd for a former Auckland franchise. Granted the Auckland franchise did not perform but if they were to do so, would the crowds be any better? Even then, to consistently hit that crowd number, that Auckland franchise would have to consistently perform. Across 2 teams and 12 odd season, the Phoenix have done it for 3 of those years.... I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.

Ryan: Canberra or Tasmania. I think you need to make it a geographical spread. Granted they are not the best locations but going back into Adelaide and Brisbane and revisiting GC and NQ would not be smart I think. Again, I also do not think there is an incentive for the FFA to put another team in NZ and would FIFA and AFC approve it?

Absolutely agree. People seem to overlook this, it may be more important than a rich old guy wanting to bankroll a team.

There will be calls again after the game at eden park. (depending on the crowd of course)

Plenty of incentive: more games, more $. More time slots, more Australian and NZ players playing professionally.

Yes, for the players but what do the FFA get??

Sky have already paid for broadcast rights, another team is not going to generate more income for the FFA.

More timeslots? What do the FFA care about time slots in NZ when they are governed to run the Australian game. Great for NZF, but does fuck all for the FFA.

More players playing professionally, how does that directly benefit the FFA. Again they would be proportionately be Kiwis and also of a lower standard.

Please spell out the benefits to the FFA. There are none.

January 29, 2013 11:06 · Edited January 29, 2013 11:07

Jerzy Merino

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Jeff Vader wrote:

Ok, lets put a 2nd team in Auckland. Purely taking a devils advocate point of view on this, here are a couple of things I could see happening.

1: Not enough Kiwi talent to spread between 2 teams. We are kinda struggling to fill 1 now. Wheel out the equivalent of Seaman, Coombes, Pritchett and Beldham again???

2: Aucklanders may go (and I can see the knitting crew doing this) well you are just a bunch or Aussies or you are stealing our talent or the real NZ talent is at Kiwitea st (or some other conspiracy theory they have)

There are positives to this no doubt but some lessons taught from the past don't die that easy.

If the Auckland oligarch/backer turns out to be Croatian then ... bingo!

January 29, 2013 11:06

Jeff Vader

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Jerzy Merino wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Ok, lets put a 2nd team in Auckland. Purely taking a devils advocate point of view on this, here are a couple of things I could see happening.

1: Not enough Kiwi talent to spread between 2 teams. We are kinda struggling to fill 1 now. Wheel out the equivalent of Seaman, Coombes, Pritchett and Beldham again???

2: Aucklanders may go (and I can see the knitting crew doing this) well you are just a bunch or Aussies or you are stealing our talent or the real NZ talent is at Kiwitea st (or some other conspiracy theory they have)

There are positives to this no doubt but some lessons taught from the past don't die that easy.

If the Auckland oligarch/backer turns out to be Croatian then ... bingo!

....and then we would have a team of ESOL players....

January 29, 2013 11:08

RR

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Jeff Vader wrote:

Ok, lets put a 2nd team in Auckland. Purely taking a devils advocate point of view on this, here are a couple of things I could see happening.

1: Not enough Kiwi talent to spread between 2 teams. We are kinda struggling to fill 1 now. Wheel out the equivalent of Seaman, Coombes, Pritchett and Beldham again???

2: Aucklanders may go (and I can see the knitting crew doing this) well you are just a bunch or Aussies or you are stealing our talent or the real NZ talent is at Kiwitea st (or some other conspiracy theory they have)

There are positives to this no doubt but some lessons taught from the past don't die that easy.

There isn't the talent right now, no one is saying that Auckland should get a team next season. Hopefully the talent pool is built up to the point that there will be enough talent to form the basis for a team. I don't think they should be the 11th or 12th a-League team.

Getting support from the local football clubs would be vital to any new expansion. They would be key to driving the demand for an A-League club for Auckland. There is only so long that you can be a big fish in a small pond, eventually they will see the need for a professional team and the A-League is the only way that will happen.

January 29, 2013 11:10

Jerzy Merino

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What, more Australians?

January 29, 2013 11:11

Jeff Vader

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But Ryan there was not the talent for a second team 13 years ago and there still is not. Is that really going to change in the next 5 years?

If anything a lot of our talented players now have the ability to make it overseas and I'm going to site Rojas, Wood, Payne, Howieson , Henderson, Keat as examples (can't really use Wee-Mac, Reid and Smith)

If they have talent, aim further afield than the A League and aspire to get to the top.

January 29, 2013 11:17

patrick478

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Listen here Fudgeface

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Jeff Vader wrote:

More timeslots? What do the FFA care about time slots in NZ when they are governed to run the Australian game. Great for NZF, but does fuck all for the FFA.

They can play a game in NZ at 5.30/7.30pm and then have another game in Aus at their 7.30pm which will avoid the afternoon games at 3.30 and 5.30 in the searing heat of the Australian Summer. Plenty of benefits there for the FFA.

I'm not saying that timeslots alone are a good enough reason to put a team in Auckland, just clarifying what the 'more timeslots' comment above meant.

January 29, 2013 11:18 · Edited January 29, 2013 11:21

Jerzy Merino

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Jerzy Merino wrote:

What, more Australians?

.... meant in regard to Jeff's crack re ESOL players

January 29, 2013 11:19

Jeff Vader

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patrick478 wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

More timeslots? What do the FFA care about time slots in NZ when they are governed to run the Australian game. Great for NZF, but does fuck all for the FFA.

They can play a game in NZ at 5.30/7.30pm and then have another game in Aus at their 7.30pm which will avoid the afternoon games at 3.30 and 5.30 in the searing heat of the Australian Summer. Plenty of benefits there for the FFA.

I'm still not feeling it. Time slots that are going to be dominated by cricket and afternoon league. I still don't see how that actually benefits the FFA. It benefits the players and the viewers.

January 29, 2013 11:21

2ndBest

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Appiah without the pace

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Jeff Vader wrote:

But Ryan there was not the talent for a second team 13 years ago and there still is not. Is that really going to change in the next 5 years?

If anything a lot of our talented players now have the ability to make it overseas and I'm going to site Rojas, Wood, Payne, Howieson , Henderson, Keat as examples (can't really use Wee-Mac, Reid and Smith)

If they have talent, aim further afield than the A League and aspire to get to the top.

FFA would grant Auckland team more import spots.

January 29, 2013 11:22

Bullion

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Jeff Vader wrote:

Bullion wrote:

George Costanza wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Jerzy: Thats not what I am saying. Its not about the money. Its about the pitiful crowd numbers. As News just highlighted, a bad crowd is Wellington is a great crowd for a former Auckland franchise. Granted the Auckland franchise did not perform but if they were to do so, would the crowds be any better? Even then, to consistently hit that crowd number, that Auckland franchise would have to consistently perform. Across 2 teams and 12 odd season, the Phoenix have done it for 3 of those years.... I'm quite content for there to be 1 team in NZ and if that means its in Wellington and not Auckland, so be it.

Ryan: Canberra or Tasmania. I think you need to make it a geographical spread. Granted they are not the best locations but going back into Adelaide and Brisbane and revisiting GC and NQ would not be smart I think. Again, I also do not think there is an incentive for the FFA to put another team in NZ and would FIFA and AFC approve it?

Absolutely agree. People seem to overlook this, it may be more important than a rich old guy wanting to bankroll a team.

There will be calls again after the game at eden park. (depending on the crowd of course)

Plenty of incentive: more games, more $. More time slots, more Australian and NZ players playing professionally.

Yes, for the players but what do the FFA get??

Sky have already paid for broadcast rights, another team is not going to generate more income for the FFA.

More timeslots? What do the FFA care about time slots in NZ when they are governed to run the Australian game. Great for NZF, but does fuck all for the FFA.

More players playing professionally, how does that directly benefit the FFA. Again they would be proportionately be Kiwis and also of a lower standard.

Please spell out the benefits to the FFA. There are none.

Ok.

With more teams there will be more games being broadcast in Australia, more games being broadcast means FFA can get more $. The timeslots are important because they can stagger live games across different time zones, appeals to broadcasters.

The FFA will be happy to be providing pathways for Australian players to play professionally, an Auckland team can provide that.

And sure Sky have paid for their current broadcast deal, but it doesn't run forever.

January 29, 2013 11:22

patrick478

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Listen here Fudgeface

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Jeff Vader wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

More timeslots? What do the FFA care about time slots in NZ when they are governed to run the Australian game. Great for NZF, but does fuck all for the FFA.

They can play a game in NZ at 5.30/7.30pm and then have another game in Aus at their 7.30pm which will avoid the afternoon games at 3.30 and 5.30 in the searing heat of the Australian Summer. Plenty of benefits there for the FFA.

I'm still not feeling it. Time slots that are going to be dominated by cricket and afternoon league. I still don't see how that actually benefits the FFA. It benefits the players and the viewers.

The games in the searing heat have drawn far smaller crowds this season, and the playing standard of the match has been hugely affected by it. The only reason they don't have more games at 7.30pm Aussie time is because of Fox Sports wanting all games at different times, so if FFA had a way to spread the games out further into the late evening, I'm sure they would.

January 29, 2013 11:23

Jeff Vader

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FFA have a 7 year deal in place that kicks in next year (they threw in the lot including the kitchen sink) so they don't get anymore cash..

If it provides pathways for Australians, you can be sure as hell it will annoy the locals (as I said above). How can you get the local clubs on board to come support a team of Australians when there is nothing in it for them?

January 29, 2013 11:26

Jeff Vader

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I'm wanting to be swayed, I truly am, but nothing has made me see it from all sides where I go 'yup thats a great idea'

January 29, 2013 11:28

N-Bomb

Starting XI

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over 13 years

Expansion ruins everything.

January 29, 2013 11:29

Hard News

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Early retirement

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about 17 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

FFA have a 7 year deal in place that kicks in next year (they threw in the lot including the kitchen sink) so they don't get anymore cash..

If it provides pathways for Australians, you can be sure as hell it will annoy the locals (as I said above). How can you get the local clubs on board to come support a team of Australians when there is nothing in it for them?

Even a space for 3 or 4 Australians is better than none.

Suspect the best chance is Auckland City to decide they want to play at a higher level, but I suspect they would be (quite rightly) hesitant about taking on the risks of the Auckland market and venue shift from Kiwitea.

January 29, 2013 11:31

patrick478

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Listen here Fudgeface

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Jeff Vader wrote:

FFA have a 7 year deal in place that kicks in next year (they threw in the lot including the kitchen sink) so they don't get anymore cash...

That TV deal is for a 10 team league, so the earliest any expansion could happen would be exactly when they new TV deal is up for tender.

January 29, 2013 11:31

Jeff Vader

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Hard News wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

FFA have a 7 year deal in place that kicks in next year (they threw in the lot including the kitchen sink) so they don't get anymore cash..

If it provides pathways for Australians, you can be sure as hell it will annoy the locals (as I said above). How can you get the local clubs on board to come support a team of Australians when there is nothing in it for them?

Even a space for 3 or 4 Australians is better than none.

Suspect the best chance is Auckland City to decide they want to play at a higher level, but I suspect they would be (quite rightly) hesitant about taking on the risks of the Auckland market and venue shift from Kiwitea.

And that's my thinking as well. They are probably the best equipped to make the next step from the point of view of an existing 'amateur' run team but they have not done so. I suspect in part because of the big fish small pond thing but also the exponential exercise it would create and associated headaches and dramas. The Auckland crowd are fickle and they aren't exactly putting bums on seats at the moment at Kiwitea last I was there.

January 29, 2013 11:34

RR

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Bossi Insider

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Jeff Vader wrote:

But Ryan there was not the talent for a second team 13 years ago and there still is not. Is that really going to change in the next 5 years?

If anything a lot of our talented players now have the ability to make it overseas and I'm going to site Rojas, Wood, Payne, Howieson , Henderson, Keat as examples (can't really use Wee-Mac, Reid and Smith)

If they have talent, aim further afield than the A League and aspire to get to the top.

When you look at the AW squad, how many of that team has emerged in the last 5 yrs? We seem to have a lot of young talent emerging currently, the exceptional ones will leave before they get to the A-League stages. But there will be ones that play a few seasons before leaving overseas. And there will always be ones that went overseas young, and end up coming back needing to reboot their careers.

The A-League is seen as a stepping stone for young Aussie players, I can't see why young Kiwis wouldn't do the same.

January 29, 2013 11:38

Bullion

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Jeff Vader wrote:

FFA have a 7 year deal in place that kicks in next year (they threw in the lot including the kitchen sink) so they don't get anymore cash..

If it provides pathways for Australians, you can be sure as hell it will annoy the locals (as I said above). How can you get the local clubs on board to come support a team of Australians when there is nothing in it for them?

There is something for them as it provides a pathway for local NZs to play professionally. There are quite a few non NZs in the ACFC squad currently anyway. And when the Phoenix started we would only have 4 or 5 NZers in a starting XI (we may have had even less in some games)

And when the 7 year deal is about to expire the FFA will negotiate a new deal based on the environment the HAL is operating in and the condition of the league at that time.

January 29, 2013 11:39

Hard News

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Early retirement

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That is why the Phoenix need a NYL side in Aus though, rather than justification (yet) for an A-League side.

January 29, 2013 11:40

Global Game

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Phoenix National Youth league spot should definitely be our priority. Saw Melb Victory Youth vs Sydney City Youth couple of weeks back. We need to get our local talent competing with these boys more often.

January 29, 2013 14:25

Jerzy Merino

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Jeff Suspect the best chance is Auckland City to decide they want to play at a higher level, but I suspect they would be (quite rightly) hesitant about taking on the risks of the Auckland market and venue shift from Kiwitea.
[/quote wrote:

And that's my thinking as well. They are probably the best equipped to make the next step from the point of view of an existing 'amateur' run team but they have not done so. I suspect in part because of the big fish small pond thing but also the exponential exercise it would create and associated headaches and dramas. The Auckland crowd are fickle and they aren't exactly putting bums on seats at the moment at Kiwitea last I was there.

This argument has been happening among some - a few - City supporters. It always comes up against the one brick wall, i.e Why abandon the near guaranteed present support plus the O League gravy train for the hugely more expensive outlay of the A-League and an uncertain level of support.

January 29, 2013 14:34

Jeff Vader

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Exactly Jerzy. In a deliberate attempt to stoke the coals I would say it comes back to lack of ambition. If you are that good, why settle for being the big fish in a small pond. They keep telling anyone that will listen that they are the 5th best team in the world, the best side in OFC and the best side in Australia (an conveniently ignore that they can't win their own domestic comp for the last 3 years) so why not put it to the test?

Besides, $500k US is only about $600k NZ of which it is sliced so many ways that the clubs cut would be worthless. Is it really worth that?

January 29, 2013 15:02

Jerzy Merino

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We're singing from the same songsheet. The risk is apparently too great. Yet... imagine, for example, 3 local A-League derbys between two half decent NZ franchises - you could well get 20,000 plus to each game. Then maybe another 15,000 for a 'grudge' pre-season warm-up. That's 75,000 paying punters. Which is what the Nix are presently getting for 10 home games, practically their entire home allocation if they fail to make the play-offs.

Of course I may be in dreamland.

January 29, 2013 15:12

Leggy

tradition and history

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almost 17 years

So where would this 'other ' team get a quality squad of players from?

January 29, 2013 16:01

RR

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Bossi Insider

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over 15 years

Leggy wrote:

So where would this 'other ' team get a quality squad of players from?

No one is saying they need a team next season. By the time Auckland is ready to try for a team again, there hopefully will be enough to go around. As I keep saying, a target like 2020 would be a workable time frame.

January 29, 2013 16:30

patrick478

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Listen here Fudgeface

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about 14 years

Leggy wrote:

So where would this 'other ' team get a quality squad of players from?

The same place Wanderers got theirs from.

January 29, 2013 16:30

Hard News

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Early retirement

3.1K

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34K

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about 17 years

The FFA changing the rules?

January 29, 2013 16:33

Leggy

tradition and history

1.5K

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9.9K

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almost 17 years

patrick478 wrote:

Leggy wrote:

So where would this 'other ' team get a quality squad of players from?

The same place Wanderers got theirs from.

So now we will have a team full of aussies.

January 29, 2013 16:36