Mark Reason article on Stuff

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Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

Hard News
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 As someone said to me, serial troll.  Meh.

...an ill-informed serial troll.

Edited by Hard News October 17, 2012 12:54
Blew.2
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 I find it laughable how so many kiwis think just because we're no.1 at a global minnow sport like rugby, and that we've also done ok at other minnow sports like cricket, netball, league... that we should also be right up there in more globalised sports like football and tennis. Ya know, just because.

Tegal
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It is a disgrace that we didn't go all the way and come up against Spain in the final,to be honest. We should have wont that too. I mean,Spain,they aren't any good at rugby,how good could they possibly be at soccer?

Allegedly

Midfielder
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Without trying to troll the writer may have gone over the top however the premises around which the article is based IMO is very true...

In Australia for the past 7 years we have been constantly reading similar articles from a number of writers and TV folk... to the point were many football folk questioned the 80 % negative technical articles and rather than discuss a game discuss how poor or how well from a technical level a team played..

The reasoning is with good football that is a joy to watch then new people will not come and over time  with ugly football you will loose those who are coming... however good technical play will hold and increase crowds...

Some time ago [this year I think but cannot find] I wrote a thread on YF asking whether you would rather win ugly or loose in style... I was almost blasted off the screen . winning is everything no matter how ugly ....

Personally I think that playing style will both win games and get crowds ... 

Comments to date seem to see the article as an attack on the Nix's and NZ football .... I don't see it that way I see it like the thousands articles written in Australia over the life of the A-League which broken down to the simple say .... Style will win more games than no style .. and style gets people in... 

Chill guys ... also what he said was the Nix are now playing with style.... remember also we had a national coach in Pim who only lost one game in qualifying for the WC and he was the most criticized coach in our history because of the style of play he used....

Edited by Midfielder October 17, 2012 15:04

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

Surge
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Midfielder wrote:

Without trying to troll the writer may have gone over the top however the premises around which the article is based IMO is very true...

In Australia for the past 7 years we have been constantly reading similar articles from a number of writers and TV folk... to the point were many football folk questioned the 80 % negative technical articles and rather than discuss a game discuss how poor or how well from a technical level a team played..

The reasoning is with good football that is a joy to watch then new people will not come and over time  with ugly football you will loose those who are coming... however good technical play will hold and increase crowds...

Some time ago [this year I think but cannot find] I wrote a thread on YF asking whether you would rather win ugly or loose in style... I was almost blasted off the screen . winning is everything no matter how ugly ....

Personally I think that playing style will both win games and get crowds ... 

Comments to date seem to see the article as an attack on the Nix's and NZ football .... I don't see it that way I see it like the thousands articles written in Australia over the life of the A-League which broken down to the simple say .... Style will win more games than no style .. and style gets people in... 

Chill guys ... also what he said was the Nix are now playing with style.... remember also we had a national coach in Pim who only lost one game in qualifying for the WC and he was the most criticized coach in our history because of the style of play he used....


Chur.

E + R + O

Hard News
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Except that in the first two seasons the Phoenix style was hugely complemented by analysts and non-agenda ridden supporters everywhere, since then we have had games where we have played Ange's super team off the park we've played such good football.

The trouble is that people like Reason and a number of Australian commentators see one game and tar a coach and team with brush they then whip out and re-use whenever a side or person is discussed when often it's not that clear-cut.

At times the Phoenix have played as good a style of football as any side in the league and you know what impact it's had on crowds?  Not the proverbial sausage.  Yet when they are on a winning run (see the finals in v5) where good weather, hype about the game, and WINNING dragged in 25 and 30k.

Midfielder
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Hard News wrote:

Except that in the first two seasons the Phoenix style was hugely complemented by analysts and non-agenda ridden supporters everywhere, since then we have had games where we have played Ange's super team off the park we've played such good football.

The trouble is that people like Reason and a number of Australian commentators see one game and tar a coach and team with brush they then whip out and re-use whenever a side or person is discussed when often it's not that clear-cut.

At times the Phoenix have played as good a style of football as any side in the league and you know what impact it's had on crowds?  Not the proverbial sausage.  Yet when they are on a winning run (see the finals in v5) where good weather, hype about the game, and WINNING dragged in 25 and 30k.


HW
I am not arguing whether the Nix's have ever played with style and I accept at times and often they have....
Aside from Ange at the Roar and recently GA at the Mariners every coach and team in Australia has seen thousands of articles many times worse than the one under discussion here...
I accept in a WC year and when you made the finals you got a decent crowd ...
Look beyond the bar is moving upwards at a rapid rate .... what was dished up in Hal 1 is simply unacceptable in Hal 8... the league and the expectations of where it wishes to go in the Australia / NZ & ASIAN markets require better standards [extra money] to increase the ratings...
IMO it was an over the top article using poor examples ... however the underlying premises that we need to improve the watch-ability of the A-League is beyond question...   
In its simplest terms ... the current rating for football NSW * QLD are better than the AFL in those states and in Vic, SA, WA, Tassie & NT Football out rates RL.... Football in Australia in 2006 swept pass RU .... Essentially Football is number two in each state and if they can lift the % a few more points could see football sometime over the next ten years becoming the main code in Australia by being a strong second in each state.... What is seen as the key to this is playing with style to make it more watch-able ...
 

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

Hard News
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Midfielder wrote:
Aside from Ange at the Roar and recently GA at the Mariners every coach and team in Australia has seen thousands of articles many times worse than the one under discussion here...


Potentially some Mariners blinkers on there Midfielder.  That opening game against West Sydney from the Mariners was as bad I've seen in the A-League.
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 ...and while I'm at it, I don't believe style has much to do with Aus audiences either.  People are raving about the FC vs Jets game at the weekend because of the names and the hype. 

There were five goals so Joe-Six Pack related to the high score.  The game itself was 'technically' a bit shit but because Heskey and Del Piero scored, it was end to end and their were five goals it was great.

Guarantee people 8 goals and a home win and they won't care if they are scored like Brisbane's larry long ball last week or like Louis Fenton's stunner in the opening week.

Junior82
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Roar didn't exactly break the crowd records with its attractive tiki taka style did it?


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Midfielder
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Hard News wrote:

Midfielder wrote:
Aside from Ange at the Roar and recently GA at the Mariners every coach and team in Australia has seen thousands of articles many times worse than the one under discussion here...


Potentially some Mariners blinkers on there Midfielder.  That opening game against West Sydney from the Mariners was as bad I've seen in the A-League.

Not disagreeing with you ... however I accept that if we play shit boring football our crowds will not grow... nor will we get non football folk to watch... I agree the Mariners need to lift and improve the style of play...  I keep saying this is not about the Nix's its about growing football...

As for the Roar and their  crowds HHHHHmmmm there is something in what you say but it is unknown what the crowds would have been if they played like MV ...

RU in Australia is almost dead the last FTA match broadcast on national TV I think got less then 300, 000 ... Australian Rugby rating are in a nose dive and the rugby folk acknowledge its the style of play the national and Super teams are playing ....

BTW find any threat or post were I have said negative things about the Nix ....

This kinda article is common in Australia try being PG until recently, MV or the Mariners under LM [as coach] ..

Sport is about entertainment as I said RU folk in Australia are in despair about the style of play driving potential followers away...  

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

Blew.2
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With constructive criticisim should be suggestions. Or it is just bad taste

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Junior82
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MF - I was probably one of those who flamed you re nice footy vs winning ugly.


I still maintain that (here in Wgtn at least) we will only increase crowd attendance if we are winning regularly and challenging for something (play-off spot, toilet seat, special NCEA certificate etc).


And despite how we bemoan how we hoof it to Greenie and watch him chase - more often than not we do play good footy at home - just not elegant pacy triangle passing.  Some of us play on the stereotypical hoof ball in our posts, others actually think this is all we do.


... just realised this is very similar to HN's earlier post.  So, yeah, wot he said.

 

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Junior82
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"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Midfielder
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Blew.2 wrote:

With constructive criticisim should be suggestions. Or it is just bad taste


HHHHHMMMMM possibly however I don't know the NZ market ...
My observations and there is much debate as I indicated in the other thread is winning with style gets more bums on seats than winning ugly... not winning at all as you have indicated elsewhere is trouble in NZ [I guess most places TBH]
If I / we look beyond the Nix's and Mariners and say we are talking about growing football... 
In Australia Football is the second code in each state ... the issue is growing that percentage ... its an evolution not a revolution ... 
From a business sense lifting from a low base is much easier than increasing a large existing base...meaning the AFL & RL in their heartland states will struggle to hold their present market share... Football in Australia needs to grow its existing base and the logic / reasoning behind how to grow the base is open for much debate on the best way forward... BUT what everyone says is the better the product the better the growth... 
Back to the article as I said badly worded with poor examples but a sober and important message IMO if you take a long term grow the sport view..    

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

foal30
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 article has no credibility as it claims MUFC win by playing beautiful. Anyone who makes a statement that erroneous cannot be taken seriously. 


his article on NZ Tennis seems to miss the player development pathway which looks a lot like NZF's FTC program. Anyone who thinks these set-ups are about kids winning tommorrow proably will never get it, becasue they actually don't want to.

E's Flat Ah's Flat Too

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Wasn't a bad piece IMO. Obviously his intention is always to stir a bit - but a lot of it is based on fact. Any praise is pretty rare from this guy so we should take it.

Founder

Junior82
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Midfielder wrote:

Back to the article as I said badly worded with poor examples but a sober and important message IMO if you take a long term grow the sport view..    

[/quote]

[quote=foal30]

 ...looks a lot like NZF's FTC program. Anyone who thinks these set-ups are about kids winning tommorrow proably will never get it, becasue they actually don't want to.



So there are two developments that should impact on a long-term grow the sport view:
  1. NZF implementing Whole of Football at junior level and over time will move through to youth (jury still out on this but it is early days, only one year gone).
  2. Phoenix grooming school of excellence - which already seems to have borne some fruit (ooh err) and is what everyone has been calling for a long time.
Reason only mentions the academy.


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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