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Ole @ Torslanda IK (Sweden; regional 4th division?)

Yakcall
Moderator
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james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

But I thought your club was Auckland City and Ramon does have a pretty good record?

I'm an optimistic pessimist. 

I'm positive things will go wrong.

coochiee
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james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

I guess a lot will depend how much support he has from Torslanda board, and how much control he is given etc.

At WaiBOP it didn’t go well. But that does now seem a long time ago, he would have learnt a shark load since then, and his methods are now a million times more proven.

Global Game
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Add Pinjaker to the Kiwi list currently at Torslanda. 

Kotahitanga. We are one.

james dean
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james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

Some of that is fair, but Central League isn't a real test of his ability as a coach.  

I just have a real issue with any academy, or coach, taking credit for developing a particular player.  Chris Wood went to England when he was 16, is he really a Declan player?  Good players are also attracted to good coaching, so it also becomes self-selecting.

Normo's coming home

coochiee
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james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

Some of that is fair, but Central League isn't a real test of his ability as a coach.  

I just have a real issue with any academy, or coach, taking credit for developing a particular player.  Chris Wood went to England when he was 16, is he really a Declan player?  Good players are also attracted to good coaching, so it also becomes self-selecting.

No one will know better than the player him or herself - whether a coach/academy from the past deserves credit for their future success.

Thomas and Boyd both visit Ole, when they make their rare trips back to NZ. I think they both have also spoken warmly of their time with the mad hatter.

Not sure what Wood has to do with it all. Don't think he's ever been claimed as an Edge disciple.

Bullion
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coochiee wrote:

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

Some of that is fair, but Central League isn't a real test of his ability as a coach.  

I just have a real issue with any academy, or coach, taking credit for developing a particular player.  Chris Wood went to England when he was 16, is he really a Declan player?  Good players are also attracted to good coaching, so it also becomes self-selecting.

No one will know better than the player him or herself - whether a coach/academy from the past deserves credit for their future success.

Thomas and Boyd both visit Ole, when they make their rare trips back to NZ. I think they both have also spoken warmly of their time with the mad hatter.

Not sure what Wood has to do with it all. Don't think he's ever been claimed as an Edge disciple.

I think Chris Wood is a Wynrs alumni 

https://www.wynrs.co.nz/about

andrewvoerman
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Plenty of fingers in the Wood pie. Mike Groom and Roger Wilkinson played their parts as well.

CBFryingpan
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There is a difference between pointing out that a player trained at an academy and claiming that the player is only successful because of their time at that academy and not any of the football they played before that. It's a much better pitch to say "look at how well this player who spent a significant amount of time here is doing" than "look at how this player who spent a significant amount of time here is doing, but they also spent time at this other club, and this futsal academy, and this holiday programme, so it's hard to quantify how big our impact was."

Could Olé be more supportive of other organisations? Absolutely. Should they be? Maybe.

andrewvoerman
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CBFryingpan wrote:

There is a difference between pointing out that a player trained at an academy and claiming that the player is only successful because of their time at that academy and not any of the football they played before that. It's a much better pitch to say "look at how well this player who spent a significant amount of time here is doing" than "look at how this player who spent a significant amount of time here is doing, but they also spent time at this other club, and this futsal academy, and this holiday programme, so it's hard to quantify how big our impact was."

Could Olé be more supportive of other organisations? Absolutely. Should they be? Maybe.

What organisations is Olé not being supportive of?

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Some of that is fair, but Central League isn't a real test of his ability as a coach. 

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How would you test his ability to coach then? If not with winning games in at a "high" level. Ratio of players that he has "worked" with that have gone on to play at a higher level than central league?  Then who are you comparing him to? Eric Harrison? Or his mate down the road?

coochiee
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Flying Kiwis and Swedish Div 4.

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Here’s your evidence that Nando Pijnaker is also on the books with the Torsies. He made his club debut over the weekend starting at CB away to Stenungsunds, with Dan Keat and Owen Parker-Price also in the starting eleven (no Harry Edge or Dom Woolridge on this occasion). And it was Keat got the scoring going after quarter of an hour with a header, then OPP made it 2-0 ten minutes later and that was still the score at the half. Sweet as.

Then things went wrong as Pijnaker was subbed off in the 48th minute, some kind of injury there you’d have to assume, before Stenungsunds scored three times in the last half hour – Adam Bergholtz with the equaliser in the first minute of stoppage time and Pontus Olsson with the winner in the fifth minute of injury time. Mate, that’s a rough one. A win would have gotten them off the bottom of the ladder but at least they’re competing better these days. 

WanderingSheep
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This really is a weird scenario. Whilst getting game time in "europe" it may be, it's the fourth tier swedish league and I doubt the experience they're getting is better than the handy prem.  I think it could be an interesting proposition, but these players are kidding themselves if it's going to do their career any good imo.

It's shark for the local club and their fans, and probably be shark for the players. If this Singh move happens, i'd be asking some serious questions if I was an Ole player.

reg22
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Apologies if this has already been addressed, but how are these players managing to get work permits?

Joey Johns
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do they even get paid to play 4th division? surely it isnt sustainable for the club unless they make div 1 in the next 3-5 years.

yung thug

The JourneyFan
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reg22 wrote:

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but how are these players managing to get work permits?

At the level they are playing in Sweden they are apparently allowed up to 9 imports

Torlandas ground holds 1500 max and everything I've seen its not that different to what they'd be playing here, doubt they'd be getting paid a lot, travel and accommodation - probably similar to what imports that come here get. As Ole's involved the players are probably working as coaches

While the standard is likely to be similar, its probably more the fact its easier to get scouts from European clubs to visit Torslanda (which is just outside Gothenburg) than it is to get them to Porirua that makes it attractive

http://thejourneyfan.blogspot.co.nz/

New Zealand Football Media Association Website of the year 2015 & 2016

zonknz
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Work permits are different to league rules, of course.

The JourneyFan
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zonknz wrote:

Work permits are different to league rules, of course.

true, if the kids have EU passports then theres no problem (well until the UK leave if thats where their passport is from) otherwise they can get working holiday visas in Sweden

Working holiday visa for young people

Certain countries have agreements with Sweden under which 18–30-year-olds can live in Sweden for a holiday for up to a year. You are allowed to work during the period spent in Sweden.

The purpose of a working holiday is that people between 18 and 30 years old will have the opportunity to, among other things, appreciate the culture and general way of life in Sweden. During the period spent in Sweden you are allowed to work.

Employment can be temporary and you do not need a job offer when applying for a permit. You can look for a job after coming to Sweden.

In order to obtain a working holiday permit, you must

  • be a citizen of Argentina, Australia, Canada, Chile, Hong Kong, New Zealand, South Korea or Uruguay
  • be 18–30 years old
  • have a valid passport
  • have at least SEK 15,000 so that you can support yourself initially in Sweden (approx $2500 NZ)
  • have a return ticket or enough money to buy one
  • have a comprehensive health insurance policy that covers health and medical care in Sweden (unless you are a citizen of Australia)
  • not bring any children with you.

The different agreements clarify what applies regarding health insurance for each country.

http://thejourneyfan.blogspot.co.nz/

New Zealand Football Media Association Website of the year 2015 & 2016

Scaramanga
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At the level they are playing in Sweden they are apparently allowed up to 9 imports

Torlandas ground holds 1500 max and everything I've seen its not that different to what they'd be playing here, doubt they'd be getting paid a lot, travel and accommodation - probably similar to what imports that come here get. As Ole's involved the players are probably working as coaches

While the standard is likely to be similar, its probably more the fact its easier to get scouts from European clubs to visit Torslanda (which is just outside Gothenburg) than it is to get them to Porirua that makes it attractive

There is not huge money in Swedish football. As a guide from one source, I know of 2 x Superettan (2nd Tier) clubs currently looking for a left/right winger & Central attacking midfielder offering €1800 & €2500/month. (CAM gig includes accommodation). A 2nd Division club (4th tier like Torslanda) is looking for a striker at €150/month (accommodation not included).

Jazzy Jeff
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reg22 wrote:

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but how are these players managing to get work permits?

dunno about the rest but Nando has a Dutch passport so its easy for him to play in Europe

So is Krishna coming back yet?

YoungHeart
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Had a 3-1 win overnight against Vänersborgs IF - their second of the season. 

Haven't been able to locate a starting line-up or goal scorers - Their Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and even their website seem to work in their own time, which is a bit frustrating.

Can assume there were at least a couple of kiwi's in the starting XI though.

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