Knockout Stage - Final | Vive la France

Woof Woof
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over 16 years

It's going to take a while for my heart rate to come back to normal.

LG
Legend
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Schmichael was lucky not to get booked at least three times for moving before a penalty, including the one during the actual game.

WeeNix
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over 16 years

I'm happy Croatia got through. Didn't want Russia v Denmark to be the most boring game in world cup history.

Woof Woof
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bennie99 wrote:

I'm happy Croatia got through. Didn't want Russia v Denmark to be the most boring game in world cup history.

Croatia will never have a better chance to make the World Cup final than this, but we're perfectly capable of screwing it up, maybe as early as Sunday morning.

LG
Legend
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over 16 years

Depends on how serious a threat a certain Russian organisation are. They might offer the Croatians a deal they can't refuse or would be very unwise to refuse.

Phoenix Academy
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over 14 years

I'm stumped by the yellow card for the Jorgensen challenge for the penalty. Should have been red, no? 

Anyone with intricate knowledge of that law care to enlighten me please...

Marquee
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over 16 years

2ndBest wrote:

Solid defensding from Pique leadign to the penalty. 

I had asked Chris Kerr on twitter if there is any directive from FIFA on what is a natural position with players jumping (not that Pique was natural, his right arm went down but he deliberately kept his left arm up) but he didn't respond. You look at players jumping, I used an example of Kobe Bryant jumping over a car (so just trying to jump high and not competing with someone else), and you use your arms to help elevate yourself. Is there any directive for Refs? Or is just left up to Refs discretion? 
Woof Woof
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Bozz wrote:

I'm stumped by the yellow card for the Jorgensen challenge for the penalty. Should have been red, no? 

Anyone with intricate knowledge of that law care to enlighten me please...

The explanation was that the referee thought it was a genuine challenge for the ball (and the rule on this has been revised in the last couple of years, so genuine challenges for the ball in these types of situations are only yellow card offences, to avoid the 'triple punishment' scenario). 

I think this was quite an interesting one - I can understand that the referee would have seen the original challenge as an attempt to play the ball, but I also think that once the defender realised he wasn't getting there, he deliberately lifted his leg to make contact on Rebic's left foot too, as Rebic had tried to position himself to place the ball with his left foot after the original trip. Either way, Modric should count his lucky stars that his miss didn't cost Croatia the QF place.

Marquee
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over 16 years

Also, while talking about refereeing - how is that the amount of holding in set pieces has been allowed even with VAR available, a couple of good examples in the Spain-Russia game; Russia's OG was the result of the defensive player not watching the ball but more intent on rugby tackling Ramos and then in extra time the Russian defender turns Ramos 180 degrees so that Ramos cannot play the ball but VAR looks at it and no penalty decision.

Phoenix Academy
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over 14 years

el grapadura wrote:

Bozz wrote:

I'm stumped by the yellow card for the Jorgensen challenge for the penalty. Should have been red, no? 

Anyone with intricate knowledge of that law care to enlighten me please...

The explanation was that the referee thought it was a genuine challenge for the ball (and the rule on this has been revised in the last couple of years, so genuine challenges for the ball in these types of situations are only yellow card offences, to avoid the 'triple punishment' scenario). 

I think this was quite an interesting one - I can understand that the referee would have seen the original challenge as an attempt to play the ball, but I also think that once the defender realised he wasn't getting there, he deliberately lifted his leg to make contact on Rebic's left foot too, as Rebic had tried to position himself to place the ball with his left foot after the original trip. Either way, Modric should count his lucky stars that his miss didn't cost Croatia the QF place.

Hvala sir. 

Not sure I entirely agree with this rule. If football had a "penalty goal" rule ala eggball then I would agree - but in this case it's a 100% goal being denied and you only end up with a penalty which is in no way a certain result, in this game in fact only a 45% scoring rate from the spot! 

Woof Woof
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over 16 years

Bozz wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Bozz wrote:

I'm stumped by the yellow card for the Jorgensen challenge for the penalty. Should have been red, no? 

Anyone with intricate knowledge of that law care to enlighten me please...

The explanation was that the referee thought it was a genuine challenge for the ball (and the rule on this has been revised in the last couple of years, so genuine challenges for the ball in these types of situations are only yellow card offences, to avoid the 'triple punishment' scenario). 

I think this was quite an interesting one - I can understand that the referee would have seen the original challenge as an attempt to play the ball, but I also think that once the defender realised he wasn't getting there, he deliberately lifted his leg to make contact on Rebic's left foot too, as Rebic had tried to position himself to place the ball with his left foot after the original trip. Either way, Modric should count his lucky stars that his miss didn't cost Croatia the QF place.

Hvala sir. 

Not sure I entirely agree with this rule. If football had a "penalty goal" rule ala eggball then I would agree - but in this case it's a 100% goal being denied and you only end up with a penalty which is in no way a certain result, in this game in fact only a 45% scoring rate from the spot! 

Just to clarify, if the foul had been blatant (i.e. shirt pull, or just a hack at the legs), it still would have been a red card. Guess the Denmark defender was close enough to the ball with the initial challenge that it may have looked a genuine attempt to clear the ball to the referee.

Overall, it's not too dissimilar to Suarez's handball in 2010, but obviosuly with quite a different outcome - eventually.

Phoenix Academy
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over 6 years

I thought Croatia deserved to win the game, a game that started off on a lively note and ended in a lively manner too...but in between it was rather bland.

I'm not really liking this VAR stuff and watching players beg for the referee to go "upstairs", I dunno its just added a new dynamic to the game that encourages more cry baby behaviour from the players (as if there wasn't enough already). Keep it pure I say: no VAR or whatever.

The refereeing seems quite arbitrary as well: we see shirt pulling being punished one moment and then ignored the next...even when VAR is used. Hmmm.

Legend
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almost 17 years

Wonder if there are still people claiming there isn't an easy side to the draw. Would really like to hear their reasoning if so.

Legend
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over 16 years

el grapadura wrote:

Bozz wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Bozz wrote:

I'm stumped by the yellow card for the Jorgensen challenge for the penalty. Should have been red, no? 

Anyone with intricate knowledge of that law care to enlighten me please...

The explanation was that the referee thought it was a genuine challenge for the ball (and the rule on this has been revised in the last couple of years, so genuine challenges for the ball in these types of situations are only yellow card offences, to avoid the 'triple punishment' scenario). 

I think this was quite an interesting one - I can understand that the referee would have seen the original challenge as an attempt to play the ball, but I also think that once the defender realised he wasn't getting there, he deliberately lifted his leg to make contact on Rebic's left foot too, as Rebic had tried to position himself to place the ball with his left foot after the original trip. Either way, Modric should count his lucky stars that his miss didn't cost Croatia the QF place.

Hvala sir. 

Not sure I entirely agree with this rule. If football had a "penalty goal" rule ala eggball then I would agree - but in this case it's a 100% goal being denied and you only end up with a penalty which is in no way a certain result, in this game in fact only a 45% scoring rate from the spot! 

Just to clarify, if the foul had been blatant (i.e. shirt pull, or just a hack at the legs), it still would have been a red card. Guess the Denmark defender was close enough to the ball with the initial challenge that it may have looked a genuine attempt to clear the ball to the referee.

Overall, it's not too dissimilar to Suarez's handball in 2010, but obviosuly with quite a different outcome - eventually.

same outcome in that it kept them in the game. It prevented them losing in regular time

Phoenix Academy
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over 10 years

Buffon II wrote:

Wonder if there are still people claiming there isn't an easy side to the draw. Would really like to hear their reasoning if so.

Because as this morning proved, once you get to the KO rounds, there are no easy games and anything can happen. Rankings and reputations become largely irrelevant - I'm no fan of the way Russia played but they have a plan and home advantage. Croatia won't be looking forward to that game at all. 

Brazil struggled against Swizterland, Sweden have been steadily improving to the point they dominated Mexico. And there's still a chance a QF could be Japan v Mexico. 

Legend
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almost 17 years

happydays wrote:

Buffon II wrote:

Wonder if there are still people claiming there isn't an easy side to the draw. Would really like to hear their reasoning if so.

Because as this morning proved, once you get to the KO rounds, there are no easy games and anything can happen. Rankings and reputations become largely irrelevant - I'm no fan of the way Russia played but they have a plan and home advantage. Croatia won't be looking forward to that game at all. 

Brazil struggled against Swizterland, Sweden have been steadily improving to the point they dominated Mexico. And there's still a chance a QF could be Japan v Mexico. 

Anything can happen in knockouts, you're right. But you only have to look at the quality of the two games on Sunday v two games on Monday to see the difference. France v Argentina was a classic. Argentina just about kept up with them due to a couple of moments of individual brilliance, but France really stepped up and showed how much of a threat they offer. Uruguay v Portugal was an good match as well, with some world class finishing on show. Compare that with either of today's matches. Spain v Russia was virtually attack v defence. Spain have lots of quality but couldn't find a way past Akinfeev enough. Russia relied on a penalty won off a set piece. Croatia v Denmark was largely drab. Modric's pass for the penalty probably the only real bit of quality in the game, we all know how good Modric is though.

So yeah, no one has an easy game, and no one has really stood out at this World Cup, it's a very even and open tournament. But there is no way that a team like Croatia or England won't be licking their lips at their route to a potential final, as opposed to if they found themselves on the opposite side of the draw. One side simply has more quality which can decide tight matches.

Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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almost 17 years

happydays wrote:

Buffon II wrote:

Wonder if there are still people claiming there isn't an easy side to the draw. Would really like to hear their reasoning if so.

Because as this morning proved, once you get to the KO rounds, there are no easy games and anything can happen. Rankings and reputations become largely irrelevant - I'm no fan of the way Russia played but they have a plan and home advantage. Croatia won't be looking forward to that game at all. 

Brazil struggled against Swizterland, Sweden have been steadily improving to the point they dominated Mexico. And there's still a chance a QF could be Japan v Mexico. 

There are no easy games, but clearly some games are EASIER than others. 

One in a million
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almost 17 years

Tegal wrote:

happydays wrote:

Buffon II wrote:

Wonder if there are still people claiming there isn't an easy side to the draw. Would really like to hear their reasoning if so.

Because as this morning proved, once you get to the KO rounds, there are no easy games and anything can happen. Rankings and reputations become largely irrelevant - I'm no fan of the way Russia played but they have a plan and home advantage. Croatia won't be looking forward to that game at all. 

Brazil struggled against Swizterland, Sweden have been steadily improving to the point they dominated Mexico. And there's still a chance a QF could be Japan v Mexico. 

There are no easy games, but clearly some games are EASIER than others. 

and some games are HARDER than others too

Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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almost 17 years

Tegal wrote:

happydays wrote:

Buffon II wrote:

Wonder if there are still people claiming there isn't an easy side to the draw. Would really like to hear their reasoning if so.

Because as this morning proved, once you get to the KO rounds, there are no easy games and anything can happen. Rankings and reputations become largely irrelevant - I'm no fan of the way Russia played but they have a plan and home advantage. Croatia won't be looking forward to that game at all. 

Brazil struggled against Swizterland, Sweden have been steadily improving to the point they dominated Mexico. And there's still a chance a QF could be Japan v Mexico. 

There are no easy games, but clearly some games are EASIER than others. 

and some games are HARDER than others too

Exactly. So stands to reason there is an easier side of the draw, and a harder side of the draw. 

Phoenix Academy
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over 10 years

Tegal wrote:

Tegal wrote:

happydays wrote:

Buffon II wrote:

Wonder if there are still people claiming there isn't an easy side to the draw. Would really like to hear their reasoning if so.

Because as this morning proved, once you get to the KO rounds, there are no easy games and anything can happen. Rankings and reputations become largely irrelevant - I'm no fan of the way Russia played but they have a plan and home advantage. Croatia won't be looking forward to that game at all. 

Brazil struggled against Swizterland, Sweden have been steadily improving to the point they dominated Mexico. And there's still a chance a QF could be Japan v Mexico. 

There are no easy games, but clearly some games are EASIER than others. 

and some games are HARDER than others too

Exactly. So stands to reason there is an easier side of the draw, and a harder side of the draw. 

And so the winners today, Russia and Croatia, are on the "easy" side of the draw. Do you think they would say they had easier games today than France and Uruguay?

Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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almost 17 years

So all teams are off exactly the same ability? No? Then some opposition are easier to go up against than others. That doesn’t mean it is easy to win, just easier (or less difficult if you prefer that).

I would say Croatia and Spain had easier games yesterday than Argentina and Uruguay did. 1 of those on each side won, one lost. Easier does not mean the same thing as easy. 

If the All Whites were in the round of 16, I’d say whoever was up against them had an easier round of 16 game than any of the other 14 teams involved in the round. That doesn’t mean we’d be easy to beat, just easier to beat than the other teams in the round. 

(This is the stupidest debate ever by the way haha)

Phoenix Academy
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almost 7 years

el grapadura wrote:

bennie99 wrote:

I'm happy Croatia got through. Didn't want Russia v Denmark to be the most boring game in world cup history.

Croatia will never have a better chance to make the World Cup final than this, but we're perfectly capable of screwing it up, maybe as early as Sunday morning.

This

I so want Croatia to make it through to the final. But their biggest enemy is themselves. They certainly have the talent to make the final. If they are mentally strong enough they can do it.

Russia are probably the worse side ever to make a WC quarter final...they will play for a penalty shootout again. If Croatia can score first then they should hold out OK.

Then they have to play who ever comes through from Sweden vs Switzerland and Colombia vs England. For me the Colombians are the real dark horse and would pose lots of problems for Croatia...the other three are very average teams.

Whatever the outcome Croatia will probably never have a better chance of making a World Cup final.

Marquee
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almost 17 years

Guys guys come on.Surely they (Croatia) would have the same chance on the other side of the draw.

WeeNix
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over 16 years

Great comeback from Belgium and from the highlights I saw Brazill look to be rounding into form too.

Marquee
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over 12 years

bennie99 wrote:

Great comeback from Belgium and from the highlights I saw Brazill look to be rounding into form too.

Poor Japan - Gave it all
Legend
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over 16 years

great game. Japan go for the knockout punch then concede it themselves 

Woof Woof
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over 16 years

martinb wrote:

great game. Japan go for the knockout punch then concede it themselves 

The way they conceded that was super naive. However, it was a great game and will definitely go down as a World Cup classic.

Certainly wasn't easy for Belgium, just to keep with the theme of this thread.

WeeNix
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over 12 years

Watched the first half of Mexico vs Brazil this morning, and then fell asleep only to catch the last 20. I didnt think Brazil looked any better than Mexico. Definitely think Brazil is there for the taking, unsure if Belgium are good enough at the back to stop Brazil scoring more goals however.

LG
Legend
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over 16 years

Fingers crossed.

Legend
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over 14 years

Bullion wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

Solid defensding from Pique leadign to the penalty. 

I had asked Chris Kerr on twitter if there is any directive from FIFA on what is a natural position with players jumping (not that Pique was natural, his right arm went down but he deliberately kept his left arm up) but he didn't respond. You look at players jumping, I used an example of Kobe Bryant jumping over a car (so just trying to jump high and not competing with someone else), and you use your arms to help elevate yourself. Is there any directive for Refs? Or is just left up to Refs discretion? 

You did? Didn’t see it
Phoenix Academy
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over 6 years

threatD wrote:
 Definitely think Brazil is there for the taking, unsure if Belgium are good enough at the back to stop Brazil scoring more goals however.

Would be great to see Brazil get ko'd 

I don't really care who wins so long as it is one of the underdogs....like England :D

Marquee
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over 16 years

Chris Kerr wrote:

Bullion wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

Solid defensding from Pique leadign to the penalty. 

I had asked Chris Kerr on twitter if there is any directive from FIFA on what is a natural position with players jumping (not that Pique was natural, his right arm went down but he deliberately kept his left arm up) but he didn't respond. You look at players jumping, I used an example of Kobe Bryant jumping over a car (so just trying to jump high and not competing with someone else), and you use your arms to help elevate yourself. Is there any directive for Refs? Or is just left up to Refs discretion? 

You did? Didn’t see it

No problem, don't expect people to respond. I can't remember now the game and incident in question but here it is:

WeeNix
880
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960
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about 7 years

when you jump you use your arms to assist with elevation. When you are nearly at highest you throw your arms down to help get that extra inch. Pique dropped his right arm but left he's left (goal side) arm up rather unnaturally. It was still up when he landed.

Marquee
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over 16 years

ClubOranje wrote:

when you jump you use your arms to assist with elevation. When you are nearly at highest you throw your arms down to help get that extra inch. Pique dropped his right arm but left he's left (goal side) arm up rather unnaturally. It was still up when he landed.

My query was not for that specific instance - much earlier in the competition - and I made the same observation "not that Pique was natural, his right arm went down but he deliberately kept his left arm up". I still would like to know if there is any direction given to refs on how to adjudge what is natural and unnatural.
Phoenix Academy
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over 9 years

Lonegunmen wrote:

Schmichael was lucky not to get booked at least three times for moving before a penalty, including the one during the actual game.

Subasic was just as bad apparently....

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-...

Who should make the call...the Ref ? AR - what else is he looking at ?...VAR?....A penalty shootout might take an hour or two to get it done properly within the "laws of the game" !

Woof Woof
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over 16 years

Lonegunmen wrote:

Schmichael was lucky not to get booked at least three times for moving before a penalty, including the one during the actual game.

Subasic was just as bad apparently....

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-...

Who should make the call...the Ref ? AR - what else is he looking at ?...VAR?....A penalty shootout might take an hour or two to get it done properly within the "laws of the game" !

I love how in some of the stills of the Spain v Russia game the taker has already made contact with the ball, and they still complain about the keeper's movement being illegal. Not to mention that the stills for the other ones capture the moment split second before the taker makes contact with the ball, and most of the keepers have pretty much just stepped off the line, they've hardly charged down 3-4 yards which is what the law is trying to prevent. Seriously, keepers are on such a hiding to nothing during a penalty that giving them a modicum of leeway in an event that literally takes a split second seems pretty reasonable (and time efficient, as you noted!).

WeeNix
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about 7 years

Lonegunmen wrote:

Schmichael was lucky not to get booked at least three times for moving before a penalty, including the one during the actual game.

Subasic was just as bad apparently....

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-...

Who should make the call...the Ref ? AR - what else is he looking at ?...VAR?....A penalty shootout might take an hour or two to get it done properly within the "laws of the game" !

AR's job to flag goalkeeper coming off the line.

However, that article shows a number of images where the goalkeeper still has one foot on the line. Laws of the Game do not specifically state both feet must be on the line, only that keeper must be on the line. Interpretation from officials may be that as long as some part of the keeper is on the line it meets requirements. 

Lawyerish
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about 13 years

Loved it how the Japanese cleaned up their dressing room

For well paid footballers that says something about that country

Classy

Marquee
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almost 13 years

Hell has frozen over, England win on penalties

WeeNix
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over 12 years

England were thoroughly underwhelming. Never really looked like breaking down Colombia. Think they will struggle against a well organised defensive unit like Sweden or Croatia.

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