Marquee
1.3K
·
5.3K
·
over 16 years

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

As a consumer your choice is pay for an overpriced sub-standard product or don't. If you don't pay for it and then watch through other means then Sky/BeIn are no worse off than if you don't pay for it and don't watch it at all. The Ferrari analogy fails because if you steal aa Ferrari then someone else has one less Ferrari. The fact that people here are talking about paying for overseas streaming services shows it's not about not wanting to pay at all, but about wanting to pay a reasonable price for a decent product.

The same thing happened with Napster damaging the CD market, but when paid alternatives to Napster (iTunes, Spotify) became available people showed they would be willing to pay. Ditto torrenting and tv shows/movies (Netflix, lightbox, Neon, Hulu etc). 

The only way companies like Sky and BeIn will improve their pricing and product is if they lose money and subscribers. If we all just kept paying for whatever shark they provide then why would they ever try to improve it?

Mmmm, not sure that's how they would see it given they have paid for the exclusive rights.  The price they pay is on the basis of the service they can offer in NZ.  If you can just pay for it elsewhere (or get it for free) from someone with a different business model then that undermines the value of the rights that they have paid for.  

So, if a subscriber quits Sky and watches by other means Sky is materially worse off than if the same subscriber quit Sky and didn't watch at all? As far as I can tell Sky's revenue and costs are the same in both cases.

I get that the ability to access content by other means lowers the threshold for quitting Sky, so illegal access does harm Sky, but obviously plenty of people are willing to pay if the service is reasonable and the price is fair. Because Sky's exclusive rights give them a monopoly on legal access to the games the usual way to drive prices down (entry into the market by a competitor) can't happen here, at least not at the point where consumers can choose between two or more providers (maybe at the rights bidding stage but Sky's pre-existing monopoly gives them a huge advantage).

Sky's monopoly is legal but it's still a monopoly. I totally get that Sky's only loyalty is to its shareholders and they have no obligation to change anything just because consumers are pissed off. The only way they will change is by losing subscribers to the point where they have to change something to stay viable. 

When sky or any broadcast pays for rights they do so on the basis of exclusivity.  If you can just go off and get the product elsewhere it means that the thing they have paid for is worth less then what they have paid for it.  It does harm them because the thing that they have paid for loses value.

Sky is not a monopoly in any sense of the word.  Buying exclusive rights is not a monopoly - all sporting rights are sold exclusively.

Sky's control of sports broadcasting in New Zealand is a monopoly. Just because it's based on exclusive rights and that's the global model, it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly. They might not meet legal threshold for anticompetitive practices because of the nature of their industry but it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly either. 

http://m.economictimes.com/definition/monopoly

It's not just Sky - the content providers (EPL in this instance) want as much $$$ as possible and structure deals like this to maximise their revenue, treating fans as cash cows.
Marquee
2.1K
·
8.2K
·
about 17 years

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

As a consumer your choice is pay for an overpriced sub-standard product or don't. If you don't pay for it and then watch through other means then Sky/BeIn are no worse off than if you don't pay for it and don't watch it at all. The Ferrari analogy fails because if you steal aa Ferrari then someone else has one less Ferrari. The fact that people here are talking about paying for overseas streaming services shows it's not about not wanting to pay at all, but about wanting to pay a reasonable price for a decent product.

The same thing happened with Napster damaging the CD market, but when paid alternatives to Napster (iTunes, Spotify) became available people showed they would be willing to pay. Ditto torrenting and tv shows/movies (Netflix, lightbox, Neon, Hulu etc). 

The only way companies like Sky and BeIn will improve their pricing and product is if they lose money and subscribers. If we all just kept paying for whatever shark they provide then why would they ever try to improve it?

Mmmm, not sure that's how they would see it given they have paid for the exclusive rights.  The price they pay is on the basis of the service they can offer in NZ.  If you can just pay for it elsewhere (or get it for free) from someone with a different business model then that undermines the value of the rights that they have paid for.  

So, if a subscriber quits Sky and watches by other means Sky is materially worse off than if the same subscriber quit Sky and didn't watch at all? As far as I can tell Sky's revenue and costs are the same in both cases.

I get that the ability to access content by other means lowers the threshold for quitting Sky, so illegal access does harm Sky, but obviously plenty of people are willing to pay if the service is reasonable and the price is fair. Because Sky's exclusive rights give them a monopoly on legal access to the games the usual way to drive prices down (entry into the market by a competitor) can't happen here, at least not at the point where consumers can choose between two or more providers (maybe at the rights bidding stage but Sky's pre-existing monopoly gives them a huge advantage).

Sky's monopoly is legal but it's still a monopoly. I totally get that Sky's only loyalty is to its shareholders and they have no obligation to change anything just because consumers are pissed off. The only way they will change is by losing subscribers to the point where they have to change something to stay viable. 

When sky or any broadcast pays for rights they do so on the basis of exclusivity.  If you can just go off and get the product elsewhere it means that the thing they have paid for is worth less then what they have paid for it.  It does harm them because the thing that they have paid for loses value.

Sky is not a monopoly in any sense of the word.  Buying exclusive rights is not a monopoly - all sporting rights are sold exclusively.

Sky's control of sports broadcasting in New Zealand is a monopoly. Just because it's based on exclusive rights and that's the global model, it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly. They might not meet legal threshold for anticompetitive practices because of the nature of their industry but it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly either. 

http://m.economictimes.com/definition/monopoly

But there is nothing to restrict others setting up competitive businesses (as we have seen).  There have historically been high barriers to entry, but those barriers are reducing through internet distribution models.  The market lacks competition but that doesn't make sky a monopoly  

Marquee
5.3K
·
9.5K
·
over 12 years

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

As a consumer your choice is pay for an overpriced sub-standard product or don't. If you don't pay for it and then watch through other means then Sky/BeIn are no worse off than if you don't pay for it and don't watch it at all. The Ferrari analogy fails because if you steal aa Ferrari then someone else has one less Ferrari. The fact that people here are talking about paying for overseas streaming services shows it's not about not wanting to pay at all, but about wanting to pay a reasonable price for a decent product.

The same thing happened with Napster damaging the CD market, but when paid alternatives to Napster (iTunes, Spotify) became available people showed they would be willing to pay. Ditto torrenting and tv shows/movies (Netflix, lightbox, Neon, Hulu etc). 

The only way companies like Sky and BeIn will improve their pricing and product is if they lose money and subscribers. If we all just kept paying for whatever shark they provide then why would they ever try to improve it?

Mmmm, not sure that's how they would see it given they have paid for the exclusive rights.  The price they pay is on the basis of the service they can offer in NZ.  If you can just pay for it elsewhere (or get it for free) from someone with a different business model then that undermines the value of the rights that they have paid for.  

So, if a subscriber quits Sky and watches by other means Sky is materially worse off than if the same subscriber quit Sky and didn't watch at all? As far as I can tell Sky's revenue and costs are the same in both cases.

I get that the ability to access content by other means lowers the threshold for quitting Sky, so illegal access does harm Sky, but obviously plenty of people are willing to pay if the service is reasonable and the price is fair. Because Sky's exclusive rights give them a monopoly on legal access to the games the usual way to drive prices down (entry into the market by a competitor) can't happen here, at least not at the point where consumers can choose between two or more providers (maybe at the rights bidding stage but Sky's pre-existing monopoly gives them a huge advantage).

Sky's monopoly is legal but it's still a monopoly. I totally get that Sky's only loyalty is to its shareholders and they have no obligation to change anything just because consumers are pissed off. The only way they will change is by losing subscribers to the point where they have to change something to stay viable. 

When sky or any broadcast pays for rights they do so on the basis of exclusivity.  If you can just go off and get the product elsewhere it means that the thing they have paid for is worth less then what they have paid for it.  It does harm them because the thing that they have paid for loses value.

Sky is not a monopoly in any sense of the word.  Buying exclusive rights is not a monopoly - all sporting rights are sold exclusively.

Sky's control of sports broadcasting in New Zealand is a monopoly. Just because it's based on exclusive rights and that's the global model, it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly. They might not meet legal threshold for anticompetitive practices because of the nature of their industry but it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly either. 

http://m.economictimes.com/definition/monopoly

But there is nothing to restrict others setting up competitive businesses (as we have seen).  There have historically been high barriers to entry, but those barriers are reducing through internet distribution models.  The market lacks competition but that doesn't make sky a monopoly  

but the competitor got squeezed out by Sky's ability to overpay for the rights because of its already dominant market position
Marquee
1.7K
·
8.1K
·
over 16 years

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

As a consumer your choice is pay for an overpriced sub-standard product or don't. If you don't pay for it and then watch through other means then Sky/BeIn are no worse off than if you don't pay for it and don't watch it at all. The Ferrari analogy fails because if you steal aa Ferrari then someone else has one less Ferrari. The fact that people here are talking about paying for overseas streaming services shows it's not about not wanting to pay at all, but about wanting to pay a reasonable price for a decent product.

The same thing happened with Napster damaging the CD market, but when paid alternatives to Napster (iTunes, Spotify) became available people showed they would be willing to pay. Ditto torrenting and tv shows/movies (Netflix, lightbox, Neon, Hulu etc). 

The only way companies like Sky and BeIn will improve their pricing and product is if they lose money and subscribers. If we all just kept paying for whatever shark they provide then why would they ever try to improve it?

Mmmm, not sure that's how they would see it given they have paid for the exclusive rights.  The price they pay is on the basis of the service they can offer in NZ.  If you can just pay for it elsewhere (or get it for free) from someone with a different business model then that undermines the value of the rights that they have paid for.  

So, if a subscriber quits Sky and watches by other means Sky is materially worse off than if the same subscriber quit Sky and didn't watch at all? As far as I can tell Sky's revenue and costs are the same in both cases.

I get that the ability to access content by other means lowers the threshold for quitting Sky, so illegal access does harm Sky, but obviously plenty of people are willing to pay if the service is reasonable and the price is fair. Because Sky's exclusive rights give them a monopoly on legal access to the games the usual way to drive prices down (entry into the market by a competitor) can't happen here, at least not at the point where consumers can choose between two or more providers (maybe at the rights bidding stage but Sky's pre-existing monopoly gives them a huge advantage).

Sky's monopoly is legal but it's still a monopoly. I totally get that Sky's only loyalty is to its shareholders and they have no obligation to change anything just because consumers are pissed off. The only way they will change is by losing subscribers to the point where they have to change something to stay viable. 

When sky or any broadcast pays for rights they do so on the basis of exclusivity.  If you can just go off and get the product elsewhere it means that the thing they have paid for is worth less then what they have paid for it.  It does harm them because the thing that they have paid for loses value.

Sky is not a monopoly in any sense of the word.  Buying exclusive rights is not a monopoly - all sporting rights are sold exclusively.

Sky's control of sports broadcasting in New Zealand is a monopoly. Just because it's based on exclusive rights and that's the global model, it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly. They might not meet legal threshold for anticompetitive practices because of the nature of their industry but it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly either. 

http://m.economictimes.com/definition/monopoly

But there is nothing to restrict others setting up competitive businesses (as we have seen).  There have historically been high barriers to entry, but those barriers are reducing through internet distribution models.  The market lacks competition but that doesn't make sky a monopoly  

but the competitor got squeezed out by Sky's Bein's ability to overpay for the rights because of its already dominant market position

As much as I dislike Sky they wern't the ones who bid for AU and NZ rights combined at an overinflated price to get the access to our region. Bein are the real nightmares in this scenario as if they didn't exist there was a potential for a PLP and Sky hybrid to exist, PLP online only Sky offline only.

WeeNix
42
·
680
·
about 14 years

new bein connect app released, with airplay functionality and an on demand/catch-up function! Have tweeted then to confirm whether all premier league games will be live this season via the app, then will follow up for details of the catch-up (like how long each game is available and when will it be up etc)

Legend
3.6K
·
15K
·
almost 17 years

No freaking way

Starting XI
890
·
2.5K
·
about 12 years

im actually shocked at how good this app is.

Legend
7.1K
·
14K
·
over 16 years

can you sign up for the online bit only?

Marquee
1.7K
·
7.5K
·
almost 17 years

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

As a consumer your choice is pay for an overpriced sub-standard product or don't. If you don't pay for it and then watch through other means then Sky/BeIn are no worse off than if you don't pay for it and don't watch it at all. The Ferrari analogy fails because if you steal aa Ferrari then someone else has one less Ferrari. The fact that people here are talking about paying for overseas streaming services shows it's not about not wanting to pay at all, but about wanting to pay a reasonable price for a decent product.

The same thing happened with Napster damaging the CD market, but when paid alternatives to Napster (iTunes, Spotify) became available people showed they would be willing to pay. Ditto torrenting and tv shows/movies (Netflix, lightbox, Neon, Hulu etc). 

The only way companies like Sky and BeIn will improve their pricing and product is if they lose money and subscribers. If we all just kept paying for whatever shark they provide then why would they ever try to improve it?

Mmmm, not sure that's how they would see it given they have paid for the exclusive rights.  The price they pay is on the basis of the service they can offer in NZ.  If you can just pay for it elsewhere (or get it for free) from someone with a different business model then that undermines the value of the rights that they have paid for.  

So, if a subscriber quits Sky and watches by other means Sky is materially worse off than if the same subscriber quit Sky and didn't watch at all? As far as I can tell Sky's revenue and costs are the same in both cases.

I get that the ability to access content by other means lowers the threshold for quitting Sky, so illegal access does harm Sky, but obviously plenty of people are willing to pay if the service is reasonable and the price is fair. Because Sky's exclusive rights give them a monopoly on legal access to the games the usual way to drive prices down (entry into the market by a competitor) can't happen here, at least not at the point where consumers can choose between two or more providers (maybe at the rights bidding stage but Sky's pre-existing monopoly gives them a huge advantage).

Sky's monopoly is legal but it's still a monopoly. I totally get that Sky's only loyalty is to its shareholders and they have no obligation to change anything just because consumers are pissed off. The only way they will change is by losing subscribers to the point where they have to change something to stay viable. 

When sky or any broadcast pays for rights they do so on the basis of exclusivity.  If you can just go off and get the product elsewhere it means that the thing they have paid for is worth less then what they have paid for it.  It does harm them because the thing that they have paid for loses value.

Sky is not a monopoly in any sense of the word.  Buying exclusive rights is not a monopoly - all sporting rights are sold exclusively.

Sky's control of sports broadcasting in New Zealand is a monopoly. Just because it's based on exclusive rights and that's the global model, it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly. They might not meet legal threshold for anticompetitive practices because of the nature of their industry but it doesn't mean they aren't a monopoly either. 

http://m.economictimes.com/definition/monopoly

They aren't really a monopoly as shown by PLP and Bein buying the rights.  I would grant that they may be a monopoly in domestic sport because of the startup costs setting up production and logistics to film games, but the barriers to entry of international sporting rights are low.

Marquee
1.7K
·
7.5K
·
almost 17 years

but the competitor got squeezed out by Sky's ability to overpay for the rights because of its already dominant market position

That's just not true though.  Coliseum and Bein paid beyond (reportedly far beyond in the case of Bein) the price sky was willing to pay for the Premier League.  In the case of cricket Sky have not shown some tours because they aren't willing to pay what is demanded by the host broadcaster.  If they overpaid for rights this would never happen.

  

WeeNix
42
·
680
·
about 14 years

martinb wrote:

can you sign up for the online bit only?

Yeah $19.78 per month or $197.80 for a year. Functionality will be on par with PLP by the looks of it

WeeNix
230
·
790
·
almost 12 years

JarrodM wrote:

martinb wrote:

can you sign up for the online bit only?

Yeah $19.78 per month or $197.80 for a year. Functionality will be on par with PLP by the looks of it

Have they confirmed that all games can be viewed live, or just whatever they are showing on their channels?

WeeNix
42
·
680
·
about 14 years

JarrodM wrote:

martinb wrote:

can you sign up for the online bit only?

Yeah $19.78 per month or $197.80 for a year. Functionality will be on par with PLP by the looks of it

Have they confirmed that all games can be viewed live, or just whatever they are showing on their channels?

The FAQ says all games will be live https://connect-nz.beinsports.com/en/faq/high-definition-nz

Tegal
·
Head Sleuth
3K
·
19K
·
almost 17 years

Awesome. Best of both worlds, as hoped it'd be last year. 

WeeNix
230
·
790
·
almost 12 years

Yep that sounds great.  Although I'm probably going to sit out the first week or two to see if any problems occur (or they simple are lying) before subscribing for the season.

LG
Legend
5.6K
·
23K
·
over 16 years

Anyone got a Kodi unit??

Starting XI
2.2K
·
4.3K
·
over 11 years

Excellent, sounds pretty much like what PLP was which is what everyone has been asking for. Don't know why this couldn't have been done last season, but hopefully it works well now. Personally I'll probably still stick with Sky for now due to the other sports I follow, but now I finally have Fibre I'll investigate streaming options for the things I want to be able to watch. 

Marquee
5.3K
·
9.5K
·
over 12 years

Some fair comments here in response to my posts. I may have been letting my hatred of Sky cloud my judgement. I've had such terrible experiences both in terms of technical aspects and customer service from both regular Sky and FanPass that I will dance on their metaphorical grave when the streaming revolution eventually kills them.

Fudge Sky.

Marquee
5.3K
·
9.5K
·
over 12 years

This BeIn app sounds worth a shot though

Tegal
·
Head Sleuth
3K
·
19K
·
almost 17 years

Yep that sounds great.  Although I'm probably going to sit out the first week or two to see if any problems occur (or they simple are lying) before subscribing for the season.

Sensible. Though I logged in to the app using sky details last night, and it looks great. 

Legend
3.6K
·
15K
·
almost 17 years

Everything we wanted, a year late

So glad I won't be missing anything this season

Tegal
·
Head Sleuth
3K
·
19K
·
almost 17 years

It ran very poorly on laptop, but very well on iOS app. It's an odd looking player they use on desktop, plenty of buffering and a couple of errors. 

Legend
7.1K
·
14K
·
over 16 years

hmm....

want to watch on laptop...

you can watch games delayed like you could with PLP?

I'm in BeIn======> Let's do this!

First Team Squad
300
·
1.3K
·
about 17 years
WeeNix
42
·
680
·
about 14 years

Dougie Rydal wrote:
Apple TV app?

No but it has airplay from iOS app, plus you can airplay the video direct from browser window when watching on a mac (ie not screen mirroring just the video)

Legend
3.6K
·
15K
·
almost 17 years

Only just clicked that it has chromecast functionality as well you little beauty

WeeNix
230
·
900
·
over 10 years
After a year of complaining I'm in too. Had mates Foxtel log in and could use VPN but happy to pay for the service now.
Phoenix Academy
190
·
370
·
over 10 years

Have they stopped broadcasting Championship games now? Swear there'd normally be at least one on live. Haven't seen Soccer Saturday, either.

Legend
3.6K
·
15K
·
almost 17 years

Just been running the sums to get rid of Sky and looks like I'm finally gonna do it thanks to this App! Woo hoo!

First Team Squad
200
·
1.4K
·
almost 17 years

I'm going to stay with my Foxtel/VPN combo until some more feedback comes back about this BeIN online offering after the first few rounds. I use a laptop to stream so looks like there might be bugs.

For $10 a month for a good VPN I'm saving $10 too.

Marquee
1.7K
·
8.1K
·
over 16 years

And just like that I'm signed up. As much as they ruined last year I'll pay for the content now I can actually watch it at human hours.

Starting XI
2.2K
·
4.3K
·
over 11 years

Just realised Arsenal's first game is on Saturday morning our time when I'll be traveling to the airport then catching a flight so going to need on demand to work on the app in week 1.

Tegal
·
Head Sleuth
3K
·
19K
·
almost 17 years

Actually I wonder how quickly the on demand games go up on the website/app. PLP you could watch from the beginning even as the game was playing live. 

The community shield from this morning is up and viewable at the moment, but not sure how quickly that became available. 

Marquee
2.1K
·
8.2K
·
about 17 years

So you can buy this without being a sky customer?  Brilliant

Legend
3.6K
·
15K
·
almost 17 years

That is correct... $19 something per month I believe

Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
over 15 years

the hopeless Luddite asks

Can I get Bein on the TV without SkySport? 

Tegal
·
Head Sleuth
3K
·
19K
·
almost 17 years

I believe BeIN connect is chromecast compatible. 

Legend
3.6K
·
15K
·
almost 17 years

foal30 wrote:

the hopeless Luddite asks

Can I get Bein on the TV without SkySport? 

I'm don't know for sure but I can't see why you shouldn't be able to

Marquee
1.7K
·
8.1K
·
over 16 years

foal30 wrote:

the hopeless Luddite asks

Can I get Bein on the TV without SkySport? 

Yes. 

Via ChromeChast or Apple TV off your phone/computer depending on what you have :)

Or you could play it on your computer and connect to TV via HDMI/VGA again depending on computer and TV outputs/inputs.

Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
over 15 years

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