Manchester United

Gullitesque
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re: Tekkers, by crazy are you referring to the move or just admiring BVB's attacking depth? I'm guessing the latter because 4/5 you listed are wide players or AMs, and Alcacer is rather injury prone, so for Haaland it's an ideal fit. Dortmund also know they'll be getting a huge sum for Sancho in the summer so were in a position to go above and beyond what they normally spend.

Dortmund's whole operating model is to be a staging post for the likes of Haaland to stay for a few years at best before moving on, so they've got a lot more leeway when it comes to clauses etc designed to facilitate an exit. Whereas a United are going in with a long term view that ideally encompasses multiple extensions. When you've got a greedy operator like Raiola involved it's also obvious to see the motivation for moving to an interim club before bouncing him on to a richer one, with another round of agent fees and signing bonuses.

At least for Haaland's sake this is also a good football move. Logical progression from Austria to Germany, a good tactical fit, and despite their large domestic fanbase a lot less pressure than the spotlight of the Prem and United. There are also a myriad of transfers you can point to (Dembele to Barca being an obvious BVB-relevant case) which illustrate the pitfalls of making the 'big' move too soon. For all his form and goals he's still a young and developing player, so why rush things.

paulm
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Geez that made a sharkload of sense

Martial
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Just seen the Pereira OG for the first time. What an absolute comedy of errors that was and pretty much sums up United at the moment. You think of some of the players we've been blessed to see in a United shirt in the last 10-15 years alone and it really does make you realise how damn far we've fallen. 

What's worse is, we aren't going to sign anyone in January are we? You just know it. Look at Liverpool, top of the league by 13 points, European and 'World Champions', and they have a signing wrapped up and announced by 1 January. We are on our knees desperate for numbers and we aren't going to sign anyone. If you didn't laugh you'd cry.

Leggy
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Martial wrote:

Just seen the Pereira OG for the first time. What an absolute comedy of errors that was and pretty much sums up United at the moment. You think of some of the players we've been blessed to see in a United shirt in the last 10-15 years alone and it really does make you realise how damn far we've fallen. 

What's worse is, we aren't going to sign anyone in January are we? You just know it. Look at Liverpool, top of the league by 13 points, European and 'World Champions', and they have a signing wrapped up and announced by 1 January. We are on our knees desperate for numbers and we aren't going to sign anyone. If you didn't laugh you'd cry.

It was men against boys. On that performance not one of our players would get in the City side. From first touch,pace, football nouse and giving the ball away we were just embarrassing. For all the critics he has had Matic was by far our best player. He may not be quick but he has skill and a football brain that Fred,Lingard  and  AP have not got between them. 

There is not point in sacking Ole as the players are just not good enough. In saying that he is not up to being the manager of this great club and if he stays we will be in the same or worse position this time next year.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

Martial
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To make matters worse it looks like Maguire might be out for a week or two. He should have come off at half time in the Wolves game as he was visibly injured. What's up with Ole letting players play through injury and making things worse? First Pogba, now Maguire. I get that the players said they're fine but that's negligent management with an already thin squad.

Axel has to play this weekend now. If Jones starts we're doomed, even against Norwich.

Tekkers
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Martial wrote:

To make matters worse it looks like Maguire might be out for a week or two. He should have come off at half time in the Wolves game as he was visibly injured. What's up with Ole letting players play through injury and making things worse? First Pogba, now Maguire. I get that the players said they're fine but that's negligent management with an already thin squad.

Axel has to play this weekend now. If Jones starts we're doomed, even against Norwich.

Maguire - I think you will find that Lindelof, Maguire and Jones have been the only fit CBs for a while now. And since Jones' horror show performance against Sheffield Utd you would not want to rest the other two often. Reports have Bailly, Rojo, Tuanzebe and FosuMensah returning near the end of the month, but likely are further away. 

Pogba - Ignoring his inability to publicly say he doesnt want to leave, reports were that he came back for those two game in order to show that he was committed to the cause but when the injury did not improve further, he got a second opinion and hence the surgery. When Fred and Pereira had to play 2 or 3 games in a row because they were the only fit CMs you cant really argue against seeing if Pogba is fit. 

You cant say he should rest players because of the thin squad when the thin squad means he cannot rest players. 

Martial
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Tekkers wrote:

Martial wrote:

To make matters worse it looks like Maguire might be out for a week or two. He should have come off at half time in the Wolves game as he was visibly injured. What's up with Ole letting players play through injury and making things worse? First Pogba, now Maguire. I get that the players said they're fine but that's negligent management with an already thin squad.

Axel has to play this weekend now. If Jones starts we're doomed, even against Norwich.

Maguire - I think you will find that Lindelof, Maguire and Jones have been the only fit CBs for a while now. And since Jones' horror show performance against Sheffield Utd you would not want to rest the other two often. Reports have Bailly, Rojo, Tuanzebe and FosuMensah returning near the end of the month, but likely are further away. 

Pogba - Ignoring his inability to publicly say he doesnt want to leave, reports were that he came back for those two game in order to show that he was committed to the cause but when the injury did not improve further, he got a second opinion and hence the surgery. When Fred and Pereira had to play 2 or 3 games in a row because they were the only fit CMs you cant really argue against seeing if Pogba is fit. 

You cant say he should rest players because of the thin squad when the thin squad means he cannot rest players. 

There's a difference between resting players which I agree he can't really do, and leaving a player on for 60 minutes when they're clearly injured during an actual game and you've got a fit, albeit unreliable, central defender on the bench.

20 Legend
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Ole takes Maguire off, Jones makes a mistake, Ole is criticised of being a "lightweight" and making a poor decision.

People need to stop assuming Ole is stupid, and start giving him the benefit of the doubt for some of the context. Maybe Maguire said he was fine at half time. Maybe a physio mis-diagnosed?

Leggy
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20 Legend wrote:

Ole takes Maguire off, Jones makes a mistake, Ole is criticised of being a "lightweight" and making a poor decision.

People need to stop assuming Ole is stupid, and start giving him the benefit of the doubt for some of the context. Maybe Maguire said he was fine at half time. Maybe a physio mis-diagnosed?

Yea, like picking Lingard, AP and Fred before Matic.

He is a clown.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

Martial
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20 Legend wrote:

Ole takes Maguire off, Jones makes a mistake, Ole is criticised of being a "lightweight" and making a poor decision.

People need to stop assuming Ole is stupid, and start giving him the benefit of the doubt for some of the context. Maybe Maguire said he was fine at half time. Maybe a physio mis-diagnosed?

I never blamed Ole for the mistakes Jones (or anybody else for that matter) made the other night. Anyway, in other news looks like Ashley Young is leaving for Inter. I've been quick to bag him on here and more public forums but he's been a good pro for United for the best part of a decade. Not my favourite player to ever wear the shirt, and has been a bit of a scapegoat of the post-Fergie era at times but can't fault his professionalism and hunger. Hopefully he does well at Inter for a couple of years.

martinb
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One big takeaway is the great form Rashford is in. He's a better player than I thought he would be. 

pacy

Tekkers
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Leggy wrote:

20 Legend wrote:

Ole takes Maguire off, Jones makes a mistake, Ole is criticised of being a "lightweight" and making a poor decision.

People need to stop assuming Ole is stupid, and start giving him the benefit of the doubt for some of the context. Maybe Maguire said he was fine at half time. Maybe a physio mis-diagnosed?

Yea, like picking Lingard, AP and Fred before Matic.

He is a clown.

While I agree that Matic has actually played alright when called upon recently, he had made it clear he didnt want to stay around given he was behind McTominay, Pogba and Fred in the pecking order. Therefore the other three fit senior players who better fit the direction of the club, play. 

I think its very narrow minded to think that Ole is doing a bad job. The clowns are those that have been involved in the club for the past 6 seasons and who think they have given the best platform for the manager and the team to perform. 

You look at our squad, which includes only 3 players Ole has been involved in buying (all good buys) and you'd say its about the 5th best in the league. Oh look, we are 5th in the league. Its not where we want to be, but until you

Tekkers
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Martial wrote:

20 Legend wrote:

Ole takes Maguire off, Jones makes a mistake, Ole is criticised of being a "lightweight" and making a poor decision.

People need to stop assuming Ole is stupid, and start giving him the benefit of the doubt for some of the context. Maybe Maguire said he was fine at half time. Maybe a physio mis-diagnosed?

I never blamed Ole for the mistakes Jones (or anybody else for that matter) made the other night. Anyway, in other news looks like Ashley Young is leaving for Inter. I've been quick to bag him on here and more public forums but he's been a good pro for United for the best part of a decade. Not my favourite player to ever wear the shirt, and has been a bit of a scapegoat of the post-Fergie era at times but can't fault his professionalism and hunger. Hopefully he does well at Inter for a couple of years.

Totally agree. My worry is that from the sounds of it, he is the one who demands high standards off the pitch and even though he doesnt really maintain the high standards that I am sure he expects on the pitch, we already lack leaders so others need to step up. 

Martial
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I never thought I'd say this at the start of the season, but I think Jack Grealish would be a great signing for that number 10 role. Has the arrogance and swagger of a United player and unphased by the big stage. Has grown into that captaincy role very well at Villa. Best player on pitch when they came to Old Trafford.

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Martial wrote:

I never thought I'd say this at the start of the season, but I think Jack Grealish would be a great signing for that number 10 role. Has the arrogance and swagger of a United player and unphased by the big stage. Has grown into that captaincy role very well at Villa. Best player on pitch when they came to Old Trafford.

I think he will keep Aston Villa up and then leave in the summer.

If he had a latin name he'd be taken a lot more seriously.

whatever
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Martial wrote:

I never thought I'd say this at the start of the season, but I think Jack Grealish would be a great signing for that number 10 role. Has the arrogance and swagger of a United player and unphased by the big stage. Has grown into that captaincy role very well at Villa. Best player on pitch when they came to Old Trafford.

That's the problem. There are currently too many with the arrogance and swagger.

paulm
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Tekkers wrote:

While I agree that Matic has actually played alright when called upon recently, he had made it clear he didnt want to stay around given he was behind McTominay, Pogba and Fred in the pecking order. Therefore the other three fit senior players who better fit the direction of the club, play. 

You don't put him in the squad as if he's an equal part of it, then treat him like he's not an equal part of it, and expect the fans to figure that out and understand. That makes zero sense.

Solsjkaer must simply believe the others are better starting options than Matic at the moment, rightly or wrongly.

Tekkers
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paulm wrote:

Tekkers wrote:

While I agree that Matic has actually played alright when called upon recently, he had made it clear he didnt want to stay around given he was behind McTominay, Pogba and Fred in the pecking order. Therefore the other three fit senior players who better fit the direction of the club, play. 

You don't put him in the squad as if he's an equal part of it, then treat him like he's not an equal part of it, and expect the fans to figure that out and understand. That makes zero sense.

Solsjkaer must simply believe the others are better starting options than Matic at the moment, rightly or wrongly.

Do you really think managers should ignore the players attitude towards staying at the club when picking their teams? Obviously there are cases where some players are better professionals than others but Matic commented "👏 😂" on a benchwarmers post linking him to Jose at Spurs in November, and since has not committed to staying here. 

And then if Ole was to drop him totally and then Andreas or Fred becomes unavailable, he would have lost his focus completely and Ole will be forced to play a kid (not the worst option but better this happens at a controlled pace). 

I do think that Matic would be a better option over Andreas but he just isnt as committed and thats what Ole wants to encourage. 

paulm
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Tekkers wrote:

Do you really think managers should ignore the players attitude towards staying at the club when picking their teams?

Do you really think that's what I said?

I'm saying that if you don't want to be at a club, you don't just get benched. You get sent to the reserves or out on loan. Every player in the match day squad needs to be committed, otherwise there's no point having them there at all, regardless of who else is available.

You seem to be claiming that an instagram message prompted Solsjkaer to employ a policy where Matic can't be in the starting eleven, but can be on the bench, which is just weird.

In any case he's started 3 of your last 4 games, when other options were available, so it's obviously not true.

My guess would be that Solsjkaer wanted someone a little more mobile in midfield against Man City. Whether it was the right decision or not is another discussion.

Tekkers
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paulm wrote:

Tekkers wrote:

Do you really think managers should ignore the players attitude towards staying at the club when picking their teams?

Do you really think that's what I said?

I'm saying that if you don't want to be at a club, you don't just get benched. You get sent to the reserves or out on loan. Every player in the match day squad needs to be committed, otherwise there's no point having them there at all, regardless of who else is available.

You seem to be claiming that an instagram message prompted Solsjkaer to employ a policy where Matic can't be in the starting eleven, but can be on the bench, which is just weird.

In any case he's started 3 of your last 4 games, when other options were available, so it's obviously not true.

My guess would be that Solsjkaer wanted someone a little more mobile in midfield against Man City. Whether it was the right decision or not is another discussion.

I supposed we both took each others statements too literally. There is a degree of commitment, not just yes or no and lots of things are balanced together when picking each team. The instagram comment was to indicate his public position but it clearly wasn't the driver for benching him. 

The January window will really show how committed the board is to the manager, as its clear players need to come in, simply for depth. If nothing happens, I really cant see how people can keep putting the majority of the blame on Ole

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