Manchester United

20 Legend
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Wait, that's the whole squad! Holy wow.

Check out this image of Max Taylor during his chemo therapy for cancer last year:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt6Tq6LDd20/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Absolutley amazing stuff for him

Tekkers
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A real struggle this morning. Frustrating to draw but credit to Villa for making it tough as they created a large gap between our front three and the midfield. 

Cant blame Ole for having to continue with a midfield of Fred - Pereira - Mata as they are the only ones fit at the moment and the youthfulness of the team means we have to accept inconsistency. 

Am really getting tired of the Ole out chat, the squad is not great and coupled with injuries to Pogba, McTominay and Bailly (who you would say are of starter quality) we look very thin. 

Tough week ahead with Spurs then City. 

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Tekkers wrote:

A real struggle this morning. Frustrating to draw but credit to Villa for making it tough as they created a large gap between our front three and the midfield. 

Cant blame Ole for having to continue with a midfield of Fred - Pereira - Mata as they are the only ones fit at the moment and the youthfulness of the team means we have to accept inconsistency. 

Am really getting tired of the Ole out chat, the squad is not great and coupled with injuries to Pogba, McTominay and Bailly (who you would say are of starter quality) we look very thin. 

Tough week ahead with Spurs then City. 

The Ole out chat is getting really tiresome. Fred, Pereira, and Mata are absolute dire. That is a relegation quality midfield. Most other starting midfielders in the league given the time Fred gets given on the edge of the box puts the ball in the top corner 20% of the time.... or at least draws a save.

Reflecting on today's result, Grealish scores a strike of a lifetime and our 19 year-old right back doesn't get up fast enough.

Martial
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Thought Fred was actually OK today. Don't read that as me saying he deserves to be starting for Manchester United, but thought he was far from the biggest problem out there. Thought his workrate was good and his general passing was tidy enough. Completely agree that he is wasteful in the final third. Think he definitely suits sitting a bit deeper as a playmaker. Pereira was awful again and shouldn't be anywhere near the United squad. Was very annoyed that Levitt wasn't even on the bench - arguably a huge ask to throw him in against Villa but he was highly impressive in Europe midweek and couldn't do worse than Pereira. 

Defensively we look very frail. Maguire still hasn't proved he's an 80 million quid defender and thought AWB had his worst game in a United shirt. 

Tekkers
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20 Legend wrote:

Tekkers wrote:

A real struggle this morning. Frustrating to draw but credit to Villa for making it tough as they created a large gap between our front three and the midfield. 

Cant blame Ole for having to continue with a midfield of Fred - Pereira - Mata as they are the only ones fit at the moment and the youthfulness of the team means we have to accept inconsistency. 

Am really getting tired of the Ole out chat, the squad is not great and coupled with injuries to Pogba, McTominay and Bailly (who you would say are of starter quality) we look very thin. 

Tough week ahead with Spurs then City. 

The Ole out chat is getting really tiresome. Fred, Pereira, and Mata are absolute dire. That is a relegation quality midfield. Most other starting midfielders in the league given the time Fred gets given on the edge of the box puts the ball in the top corner 20% of the time.... or at least draws a save.

Reflecting on today's result, Grealish scores a strike of a lifetime and our 19 year-old right back doesn't get up fast enough.

Pereira has been given more than a decent chance to impress and unfortunately is just not at a level we need. Same with Jones. Not even at a squad player level. I would say that Mata, Lingard, Fred are good enough to have as rotation players, but we are relying on them to perform as starters too often. Shaw is really at a crossroads and his attitude will decide if he comes good or not. Or his injury prone body will. 

If we keep selling at the bottom and buying at the top, while bringing McTominay, Rashford, Martial, James, Williams and even AWB through, we have the opportunity to get back to the top. But you really need to keep the manager consistent at a time like this. 

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I'm glad to read some sense here. Some other United forums are just poison.

The season is a write-off. The only chance of anything worth mentioning is the Europa League. I sure do hope the club can stick with its guns and keep Ole to at least summer. If we get a new manager now the last 6 months will be thrown in the bin and we'll have to start it all again.

Leggy
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20 Legend wrote:

I'm glad to read some sense here. Some other United forums are just poison.

The season is a write-off. The only chance of anything worth mentioning is the Europa League. I sure do hope the club can stick with its guns and keep Ole to at least summer. If we get a new manager now the last 6 months will be thrown in the bin and we'll have to start it all again.

So how long do you give him? A new manager will still have the same problems because the squad is piss poor. However, it does not work like that. if he does not get results he will be gone. Simple.

As much chance of winning Europa or anything as I have of winning 1st division lotto.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

Tekkers
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Leggy wrote:

20 Legend wrote:

I'm glad to read some sense here. Some other United forums are just poison.

The season is a write-off. The only chance of anything worth mentioning is the Europa League. I sure do hope the club can stick with its guns and keep Ole to at least summer. If we get a new manager now the last 6 months will be thrown in the bin and we'll have to start it all again.

So how long do you give him? A new manager will still have the same problems because the squad is piss poor. However, it does not work like that. if he does not get results he will be gone. Simple.

As much chance of winning Europa or anything as I have of winning 1st division lotto.

I give him until he is underachieving with a team that he had helped to shape. The best 11 is not better than any other in the big six, nor Leicester, let alone having the squad to cope with injuries to Pogba, McTominay, Bailly. So getting top 6 would be par / slightly above what you would expect from this team. 

In saying that, the youthfulness of the team is promising and I would like to think they could get reasonably far in the Europa. It my hurt the league position in doing so, but when that is already shot then why not?

20 Legend
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If games finished at half time:

Leggy
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[quote=20 Legend]

If games finished at half time:

You should join the real world.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7746335/Manchester-United-enduring-worst-season-31-YEARS.html

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

Martial
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Ole would probably go alright in DoF role we have heard so much about. Seems to be really efficient and calculated in who he brings in and cuts but gets found out tactically as a manager.

20 Legend
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Out of interesting - talking about how tactically naive Ole is - what games would you have lined up different, and how?

Tekkers
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20 Legend wrote:

Out of interesting - talking about how tactically naive Ole is - what games would you have lined up different, and how?

First and foremost, I think people are wanting to think Ole is not up to the task and because of his lack of experience on the big stage, people are more inclined to think he is tactically naive or not up for it than to say that the players are simply not good enough. 

Fans question a lot of managers decisions, especially tactically, but mistakes or times when they disagree are not given the same weight as they are with Ole. 

Nevertheless, the examples used to 'show' that he is tactically naive are ones like:

  1. Playing Lingard instead of Mata against teams who just sit in or vice versa (did this more than once or twice but seems to have learnt now)
  2. Playing Pereira (gave him a chance, he didnt perform and now is only playing because 2 fit CMs)
  3. Playing Jones (with Fred and Pereira in CM, a back three was a good call so all three fit CBs played)
  4. Subbing Martial off for Tuanzebe before conceding to Sheff. (Had Rashford, Greenwood, James and Martial on the field at the time)
  5. Subbing Williams for Shaw (Williams on yellow, 19yo, gave Shaw a chance - no issue from me)
20 Legend
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You've justified all 5 of those positions pretty well, given the context of the situation at the time.

The reason I always ask is because I absolutely refute the idea that Ole is operating in isolation. Mike Phelan has won the Premier League (I think 3 times?) with United. And probably operated as the key tactical person in SAF's operation during that time.

I'm not saying they're tactical geniuses or anything but this idea of "naivety" is too simple. Pep would look just as, if not more, naive with this squad.

Martial
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Apparently Martial is out of the Spurs game. Really don't think we can afford to have Rashford up front. I'd start Greenwood through the middle and keep Rashford on the left.

Tekkers
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20 Legend wrote:

You've justified all 5 of those positions pretty well, given the context of the situation at the time.

The reason I always ask is because I absolutely refute the idea that Ole is operating in isolation. Mike Phelan has won the Premier League (I think 3 times?) with United. And probably operated as the key tactical person in SAF's operation during that time.

I'm not saying they're tactical geniuses or anything but this idea of "naivety" is too simple. Pep would look just as, if not more, naive with this squad.

The issue is that most people can't see that context and would rather change manager than to be patient with the current team. 

100% there is a team involved and for sure Phelan has a lot of knowledge. I think he is more involved in the coaching than the tactics but usually they go together. 

Comparisons to other managers and teams are really pointless in my opinion. The closest you get is Arsenal now (only one change in manager so more consistency, but squad quality similar), and Liverpool when Klopp joined. At United, you have a squad restrictively built by 4 managers, with businessmen almost making the on field performances a lottery because they really dont need the squad to perform in order to make money. 

Tekkers
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Martial wrote:

Apparently Martial is out of the Spurs game. Really don't think we can afford to have Rashford up front. I'd start Greenwood through the middle and keep Rashford on the left.

I have a feeling that we will play 3-4-1-2 with James and Rashford as wide strikers and Lingard in the 10. As long as its Tuanzebe and not Jones, then it won't be a horror show. Unless both McTominay and Pogba dont play too, then we will be in real trouble. 

Will be interesting to see if Jose gets Spurs to sit in (restricts our pace but doesnt suit Spurs as well) or presses higher (suits Spurs with their better players but also suits us better). Given United are at home youd think Spurs will sit in a low block. Which makes a case for Mata playing

Tekkers
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Already interesting team selections (again?) with Greenwood starting up top, Young at LB (Williams suspended) and Lingard preferred but at least McTominay is back. 

Martial
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That'll do lads. Suddenly up to 6th.

Tekkers
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Martial wrote:

That'll do lads. Suddenly up to 6th.

Take that. Decent 60min performance and a battle to get through the last half hour. 

Rashford running at Aurier was great to watch. Lingard's energy was much needed, McTominay's positioning was vital and Fred had another good all round performance. 

Jose went with the low block tactic, but the fullbacks were isolated too often. Not sure if Spurs suit a style with lots of crosses. 

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