National League History Thread

Oi Oi Edgecumbe
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Doloras wrote:

Cavie with their theme song Its a grand ol team...

Is that the same song now used by the Melbourne Demons?

(Team songs are old football traditions which have gone out in our code but are still big in the AFL.)

No, a different song, but no doubt a traditional old football song, prob from back in Scotland

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

Leggy
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Doloras wrote:

Cavie with their theme song Its a grand ol team...

Is that the same song now used by the Melbourne Demons?

(Team songs are old football traditions which have gone out in our code but are still big in the AFL.)

No, a different song, but no doubt a traditional old football song, prob from back in Scotland

Celtic I think. 

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

chubbs
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Definitely the celtic song. Caversham an interesting case - without taking anything away from WDU's league win in 1976 Cavvie should really have won the league that year . Blew up with a few games to go. Beat WDU 5-0 in Dunedin and drew 2-2 at the Basin after leading 2-0 with not long to go. Alf Stamp on his day was mesmerising . Bill Fleming a real personality as coach. Played in a Manu Utd strip - red shirts , white shorts . black socks with red and white top. Not sure what their import quota was but not many Kiwis.

The JourneyFan
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chubbs wrote:

Definitely the celtic song. Caversham an interesting case - without taking anything away from WDU's league win in 1976 Cavvie should really have won the league that year . Blew up with a few games to go. Beat WDU 5-0 in Dunedin and drew 2-2 at the Basin after leading 2-0 with not long to go. Alf Stamp on his day was mesmerising . Bill Fleming a real personality as coach. Played in a Manu Utd strip - red shirts , white shorts . black socks with red and white top. Not sure what their import quota was but not many Kiwis.

Grand old team is a Celtic song, but several other clubs use it - Lower Hutt used to. Football club songs still big overseas but not hear (probably cause here most people are too scared to sing - well except the Yellow Fever and Auckland City's 248 crew)

1976 was a weird year for WDU, had been relegated in 1974, got Ian Johnston back as coach and won Central League in 1975 and then National League in 1976 - 11 of their 12 wins were by 1 goal (the other was 4-2!) Lost 5-0 to Caversham and 5-1 to Stop Out and you are probably right Caversham blew it - but WDU were consistent - of the 11 1 goal wins 8 were 2-1. Also Mike Simenoff was the first Kiwi born captain to win the National League

http://thejourneyfan.blogspot.co.nz/

New Zealand Football Media Association Website of the year 2015 & 2016

Napier Phoenix
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AllWhites82 wrote:

reg22 wrote:

I have fond memories of watching DB Wellington in the late 80s

It was cool to watch teams who had come down from Auckland that were full of past and present All Whites get pulled to pieces by Barrie Truman's team, when all we had was Malcolm Dunford!

Truth was that we had talent all over the park; Billy Harris and Brent O'Neill were electric and of course Truman was probably the best coach in the country.

Yes great days the 'old' National League watching on the bank at English Park and then at QEII Park. As you say all the team had current or former All Whites and all the teams had great characters in them and you could name most of the players in the opposition. 

Can remember in one game when Mt Wellington were playing ChCh United at English Park and Brian Turner ran out with a perm and white boots, I think he was just back after trying his luck in the UK. Soon the chant went up on the bank "Turner's a pansy's", after Brian had scored his second goal run to the crowd on the bank and with a smile said, "I may be a pansy but I can play a bit". 

The coaches great characters at well - Turman, Bill Fleming, Terry Conley, Don Jones, Ken Armstrong to name but a few. 

Sad news just coming out that Ken France, former ChCh United captain and All White from 67 - 73, passed away today.

Didn’t he play cricket for NZ as well?
AllWhites82
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AllWhites82 wrote:

reg22 wrote:

I have fond memories of watching DB Wellington in the late 80s

It was cool to watch teams who had come down from Auckland that were full of past and present All Whites get pulled to pieces by Barrie Truman's team, when all we had was Malcolm Dunford!

Truth was that we had talent all over the park; Billy Harris and Brent O'Neill were electric and of course Truman was probably the best coach in the country.

Yes great days the 'old' National League watching on the bank at English Park and then at QEII Park. As you say all the team had current or former All Whites and all the teams had great characters in them and you could name most of the players in the opposition. 

Can remember in one game when Mt Wellington were playing ChCh United at English Park and Brian Turner ran out with a perm and white boots, I think he was just back after trying his luck in the UK. Soon the chant went up on the bank "Turner's a pansy's", after Brian had scored his second goal run to the crowd on the bank and with a smile said, "I may be a pansy but I can play a bit". 

The coaches great characters at well - Turman, Bill Fleming, Terry Conley, Don Jones, Ken Armstrong to name but a few. 

Sad news just coming out that Ken France, former ChCh United captain and All White from 67 - 73, passed away today.

Didn’t he play cricket for NZ as well?

I think you are thinking of Vic Pollard

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AllWhites82 wrote:

AllWhites82 wrote:

reg22 wrote:

I have fond memories of watching DB Wellington in the late 80s

It was cool to watch teams who had come down from Auckland that were full of past and present All Whites get pulled to pieces by Barrie Truman's team, when all we had was Malcolm Dunford!

Truth was that we had talent all over the park; Billy Harris and Brent O'Neill were electric and of course Truman was probably the best coach in the country.

Yes great days the 'old' National League watching on the bank at English Park and then at QEII Park. As you say all the team had current or former All Whites and all the teams had great characters in them and you could name most of the players in the opposition. 

Can remember in one game when Mt Wellington were playing ChCh United at English Park and Brian Turner ran out with a perm and white boots, I think he was just back after trying his luck in the UK. Soon the chant went up on the bank "Turner's a pansy's", after Brian had scored his second goal run to the crowd on the bank and with a smile said, "I may be a pansy but I can play a bit". 

The coaches great characters at well - Turman, Bill Fleming, Terry Conley, Don Jones, Ken Armstrong to name but a few. 

Sad news just coming out that Ken France, former ChCh United captain and All White from 67 - 73, passed away today.

Didn’t he play cricket for NZ as well?

I think you are thinking of Vic Pollard

Vic Pollard played 32 tests for NZ and was capped 7 times for the All Whites.

chubbs
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Vic Pollard was a very tidy midfielder . Wouldn't play on Sundays so his career in both sports petered out in the mid 1970's. NZ cricket team in the 1970's had two former all whites - Pollard and Mark Burgess. Don't think Burgess ever played National League football.

Doloras
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Wikipedia says that... oh, deleted, I can't read.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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As far as individual clubs go , then Iain Gillies wrote a book on Gisborne Citys league win - The Class of 84 - again really scarce. 

Hi, I am late to this but just want to endorse what a fine piece of football literature Iain Gillies' The Class of '84 was. 204 pages, perfect bound. It was much more than just a football book by the former Gisborne Herald editor, more of a provincial cultural history.

He gave me a copy with an inscription which read: "Best wishes to Bruce. It's a bit of a higglety-pigglety book as I wrote it after each training session without the players knowing. All the best, Iain."

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Absolute class

chubbs
Phoenix Academy
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Huge Squad ! I count 14 . Think that Fallon had stopped playing at that stage .7 All Whites (Mulligan, Finlayson, Cresswell, Byrne, Turner, Walker, Simonsen). Couple of really top class imports - Mcloughlin and Meacock.. Others are John Gillies, Phil Lowery ,Stuart Owen(useful Tennis player),John Enoka and Jim Doherty. Childers Road really was a forbidding place in those days. Not a lot else to do in Gisborne on a Sunday in winter I guess !

Oi Oi Edgecumbe
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chubbs wrote:

Huge Squad ! I count 14 . Think that Fallon had stopped playing at that stage .7 All Whites (Mulligan, Finlayson, Cresswell, Byrne, Turner, Walker, Simonsen). Couple of really top class imports - Mcloughlin and Meacock.. Others are John Gillies, Phil Lowery ,Stuart Owen(useful Tennis player),John Enoka and Jim Doherty. Childers Road really was a forbidding place in those days. Not a lot else to do in Gisborne on a Sunday in winter I guess !

Awesome! I played a bit with Stu Owen, and my sons with his sons around Whakatane

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

reg22
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What a team. Club football was so strong in New Zealand at the time

McLoughlin and Meacock signed for Cardiff City in the English 2nd Division (2nd tier) after spending this season with Gisborne

Meacock came back a couple of seasons later. I remember watching him in their Chatham Cup winning season a few years later and he was such a good player. Ended up in Oz I think

McLoughlin went on to play for Wolves

Doloras
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One thing I learned from reading B. Holloway's _The National League Debates_ is that the reason club football was so strong in the 1980s was that so many English/Scottish pros and semi pros came and spent the northern summer here, which is one reason why shifting to a summer season was so resisted.


It's interesting how much things have turned around that there seem to be far more Spanish-speaking people than Brits at our top club levels now

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
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Big Pete 65
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rsssf.com is one of the world's best and comprehensive football stats sites and covers NZ football history.

Much fascinating detail there.

We've had a national club or franchise competition most years since 1970.

However,it is less well-known that there were other competitons to decide national champons before 1970.

Full league tables and promotion/relegation details for our national league 1970 - 1992 here:

http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nzhist.html

Its predecessor was the Rothmans Cup - the first national club championship for two years in 1962 and 1963 only:

1962 (followed by all major NZ domestic results for that year):

 http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz62.html

1963:

http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz63.html

"In 1970 the National Soccer League was introduced. The winners received "The Football Association Trophy" up to and including 1983.

Since 1984 the National League winner received the sponsor's trophy. The Football Association Trophy was thus replaced."

However, before the advent of the national league for clubs in 1970,  the Football Association Trophy (sometimes known as "the English Trophy")  was the premier competition to decide the national champion, played between provincial rep teams from the major associations.

  This was a trophy which was given to New Zealand F.A. by The Football Association (England). Since 1926 it was presented as the English Trophy for competition amongst the major associations. It replaced the Brown Shield as the premier prize in domestic soccer.

Results for the FA Trophy 1926-1967:

http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz-trophyhist.html

Big Pete 65, Christchurch

Big Pete 65
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Details on NZ national league champions from 1970 to today:

National Champions since 1970

Details on each year of NZ domestic football since 1970:

(1996 on has results & scorers round-by-round of the national league; prior to that, just results grids)

1970: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz70.html             1998: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz98.html

1971: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz71.html              1999: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz99.html

1972: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz72.html             2000: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz00.html

1973: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz73.html              2001: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz01.html

1974: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz74.html              2002: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz02.html

1975: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz75.html              2003: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz03.html

1976: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz76.html              2004: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz04.html

1977: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz77.html              2004/05: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz05.html

1978: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz78.html              2005/06: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz06.html

1979: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz79.html               2006/7: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz07.html

1980: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz80.html               2007/08: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz08.html

1981: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz81.html               2008/09: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz09.html

1982: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz82.html               2009/10: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2010.html

1983: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz83.html               2010/11: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2011.html

1984: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz84.html                2011/12: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2012.html

1985: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz85.html                2012/13: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2013.html

1986: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz86.html                2013/14: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2014.html

1987: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz87.html                2014/15: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2015.html

1988: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz88.html               2015/16: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2016.html

1989: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz89.html                2016/17: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2017.html

1990: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz90.html                2017/18: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2018.html

1991: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz91.html                2018/19: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz2019.html

1992: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz92.html

1993: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz93.html

1994: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz94.html

1995: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz95.html

1996: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz96.html

1997: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz97.html

Big Pete 65, Christchurch

Oi Oi Edgecumbe
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A treasure trove website that one! Thanks Big Pete!

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

Big Pete 65
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Just looking at some of the tables, as a South Islander, it's quite interesting to realise that in 1977 there were five South Island teams in the National League (out of 12 teams).

Two from Christchurch, two from Dunedin and Nelson United.

That must have been "peak South Island influence" in the history of our national league.

Promoted for 1977 - Hamilton, Nelson United and Dunedin City. (Promotion \ Relegation to be based on 3 up 3 down. Winners of the 3 regional leagues Northern, Central & Southern to be promoted)

But it didn't last long,with Dunedin City, Caversham and New Brighton relegated that season. 

With Woolston WMC promoted for 1978 as Southern League champs, there were still three South Island sides in 1978  

1977 NATIONAL LEAGUE

1.North Shore Utd    22 14 3 5 37-25 31 

2.Stop Out                22 11 8 3 40-28 30 

3.TT Christchurch U 22 9 9 4 32-17 27 

4.Hamilton                22 9 9 4 41-22 27 

5.Wellington D.U.     22 8 7 7 41-31 23 

6.Mt Wellington        22 8 7 7 27-21 23 

7.Nelson Utd            22 6 9 7 22-29 21 

8.Blockhouse Bay    22 7 7 8 23-33 21 

9.Eastern Suburbs   22 6 5 11 31-36 17 

10.New Brighton      22 5 7 10 24-36 17 

11.Dunedin City       22 5 7 10 19-30 17 

12.Caversham         22 3 4 15 14-43 10

Big Pete 65, Christchurch

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Trying to think of all the old sponsors of the league and teams. I have a lot of programmes from the National League era (but are in NZ in storage) so I can't remember. I'll post scans up when i'm over in a few weeks and dig them out.

Rothmans, Air New Zealand and Winfield I remember for the National League. Then Smokefree for Superclub and the NSL. Ansett NZ, Qantas NZ for the re-instated National League before it went to NZFC? Is that all? I was thinking Bluebird, but that may have been late 90s Southern League.

For club teams 3ZB United, Trans Tours United, Christchurch Brother United, Hanimex North Shore, McKee Nelson United, National Mutual Miramar, Masport Mt. Wellington are the ones off the top of my head...

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