ISPS Handa Premiership

100%. But we don't need to encourage it even more, do we

I see a lot of people rubbishing Vuksich's statements as if he's deadset on the current system continuing. His arguments are valid and there are certainly much better ways to solve regional representation (which seems to be the main grievance many people have, apart from being sick of ACFC), which he recognises. Can't understate just how much of a detriment that slashing the player pool via a Superclub model is - logically that provides a much weaker league, facilitates many more unneeded transfers and hugely inflates the prices of mediocre talent as El Grap suggests.

For me, the previously suggested four-year pro/rel model works in theory, putting aside its convoluted nature for a second. I'd like to see that idea developed more in the wake of COVID before we jump the gun on a model that provides regional representation, and ruins everything else.

I'd like a four-tier, fully pro, 20 teams per league setup

I don't have a strong affiliation to any club, or even region now. I don't really care which team wins the national league (though I'm sure alot of people do care). But I do like watching young players develop here, then hopefully head overseas. That's why I really enjoyed Eastern Suburbs winning the league. A team of mostly young Kiwis, a big number of whom are now playing abroad, and since that GF win, many have been capped for the AWs. 

To me this is the Handy Prem at it's best. Young kids developing and learning as they battle it out weekly against old heads like Jake Butler, Reira, Gulley, Clapham etc.

I'd like to see both Weenix and Ole/Western Suburbs automatically be in any national league, whatever format it is. Going forward these 2 academies are going to develop the majority of NZ's football talent. They should be helped, not hindered as they do that.

The days of strong club football, with long standing club rivalries, as clubs like Mt Wellington, ChCh United, NCR, Gisborne City - littered with AWs battle it out are long gone. Better to the recognise any national league format for what it should be, a development league who's main goal should be helping Kiwis head overseas, plus work in with NZ age group sides. No doubt it really helped Buckingham with his U20 side, that the core of that team came from NZ (Weenix & ES) - and those players had a summer of football honing their combinations, against NZ's best domestic older men's players in the leadup to their World Cup. 

Japanese FA set out a 100 year plan for that. #project

I have not had a lot to do with the NL but do enjoy following any games that I can get to for my summer fix. Having read the various comment below it appears to me that we are going to end up with a very watered-down league.

Which has me asking these questions

Are we doing this for the Clubs or for the better good for football and the players?

At the moment the better players tend to disperse to local clubs over the winter and then come together for a NL team in the summer. In the winter they are usually helping their local team/ club by mentoring other players and helping to achieve the goal of winning their respective league.

In the summer when they return to the NL team, they are pitting themselves every training and game against some of the best players in New Zealand. This is their development time, where the are truly challenged by playing and training with best.

(We do not see Rugby expecting their players to play solely in a local team. They have their players in Teams training and playing with the best for their area and then these players being challenged and improving.)

Are we just asking by not providing this ability to play in an elite group for players to look elsewhere? (Australia? or further, not sure what the league is like over there). I know some players do go overseas anyway.

But are we not just diluting top quality football?? I do enjoy watching the HANDA League, the skills and ability that most of these players have brings joy to watching the beautiful game.

Comparison to having watched some of the CL, the levels are miles apart and should give young players something to strive for.

At the moment you have Wainui who have just won Cap Prem. They have a striker who is now playing for Hawkes Bay in the NL. He will now be training and playing in the top league. He will benefit and improve for this. So, in the new system you would presume they would try and keep him, and he would not have the exposure of training and playing against the top players. Is this good for football?

Has anyone bothered asking the players what they think? Or are we just stroking the club egos.

Yes, it is financially a problem, but let us work through that for the betterment of the game. Let’s not be short-sighted and look at the long-term picture. 

There must be a better way to have the best playing with the best and having quality football and not diluting the level.

Reading above does make me wonder about the statement if you win one year, you will not be available to play and win the following year, due the timing I presume. I will have to read into this further, but talking to others it seems we have a been here, a done this before, and it didn’t work then!

So why go back we are supposed to looking forward. Sorry if any of my assumptions are incorrect, I am going back to read information more in depth again.

How's your Tasman looking?

Looks like it's official: 

New Zealand Football has confirmed the biggest changes to its domestic national leagues in a decade, overhauling the women’s and men’s competitions to make youth development and sustainability a priority.

Read the full announcement at https://t.co/xvOizKs0TQ pic.twitter.com/gOgwrqQTde

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) December 1, 2020

A terrible mistake IMHO. The current model worked for 16 years and created ACFC which represented Oceania at the global stage. We're going back to a failed model from the 90s which stopped working because no-one cared.

Central league games seem to get more spectators than NL games. *shrugs*

maybe NZF have a different view on what success looks like than you.

I am liking the focus they intend to put on player payments and imports and youth

All I'm saying is that everyone should read Bruce Holloway's The National League Debates about how the 1993-1995 Superclub comp operated, or more likely didn't. There's a reason they brought back a summer national league as soon as possible.

I am also interested in some of these areas - however apart from requiring the clubs in the NLS to have a Y-licence how does it promote U20 players playing in the NLS - which is what Pragnall and Boyens claim?  I honestly can see the opposite for all the teams except for the Nix.

Lol - I just watched the video where they talked about U20 player spots in the league - it's funny because that isn't mentioned in the proposal and wasn't brought up in the meeting we had with NZF/NRF about this change.  Easy thing to say in a video though....

your anagrams are confusing me. But Youth is two compulsory u20s, the void left by the player payment and import enforcements giving scope for more youth, and the 'single system' where someone like Ole/Wests don't need to shop their players out

Some peculiarities, in the Championship phase 9 games for the men, 14 games for the women.  Also no formal loan system in place to ensure best players compete in the Championship phase.

Semi expecting to see the amalgamation between ACFC and Central United or CU being absorbed into ACFC with today's announcement.

So based on last season's results, who would have made the play-offs this year?

Also, is it fair that the Phoenix Reserves who were poor in the Central League and finished well out of the top 3 automatically make the play-offs each year?

this is unbelievably depressing for anybody who appreciates anything other than youth development

I definitely don't like it and feel it's a backward step but changes did have to be made. 

A closed shop league with 8 teams was incredibly unfair on clubs outside it with ambition. 

Plus cost cutting is important. 

It could be the death spiral for national football coverage with 3 months of National Championship and the All Whites completely non-existant. I hope the regional leagues get streams on Sky Sports Next, would be good to keep an eye on a team for the whole year including the cup games.

Might need to get a sweepstake going for who will qualify for the National Championship in each region.

https://nationalleaguedebates.weebly.com/

A potted chronology of the twists, turns and conflicting ideas in New Zealand football since 1990 - it examines the historic ferment over the challenges of finding a sustainable format for our flagship competition.

I think when this goes ahead needs to be up to 3 "loan" or "guest" players for the championship phase.

It'll be interesting to see how NZ Football could crack down on player "reimbursements" when a large amount is prob under the table

Based on the season just gone (bear in mind the Northern League only had 8 games) the make up would be

Auckland United

Central United

Eastern Suburbs

Bay Olympic

Miramar Rangers

Western Suburbs

Wellington Olympic

Wellington Phoenix

Cashmere Technical

Green Island

So this is suppose to be more financially sustainable for clubs? The smaller clubs will now I presume be expected to travel further as their conferences will cover a larger area. Some of these clubs struggle to field teams financially in their top leagues already.

The talent will be now be spread, dropping the level overall.  Has been great to watch the Handa league where the best are playing with the best and the youth if they are good enough come through already. Great they are now getting some sort of TV coverage this year. Can't see that happening with the new format. Mediocrity isn't what they want for TV.

If they are so concerned about the youth development why not keep the youth league going? They say its about development of the young players, surely if these young players are good enough they will make their way into teams. Don't see coaches saying no thanks to good players, but they should have to earn their spot, not handed their place because it is a requirement to have someone their age on the park.

Will we now have more player's leave for Aussie and further a field where they can play in teams with players of similar abilities instead of playing in a league that has been dumbed down. 

It seems we have just gone in circle. Been here and have tried that. Didn't work before, so what makes them think it will work now?

Very narrow sighted and Big backward step!!

Saying that I hope it does work! But will be interesting to see how it will better football in NZ .....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/domestic/12...

"Pragnell said the existing clubs were split down the middle,”four-four” when it came to supporting the plans for change."

Just have a whistle blower system where a player can dob in his old club 

And themselves for back tax to the IRD, so unlikely to happen. 

A very backward step.

All the semi professional players will now require day jobs.

Clubs wont afford foreign players or afford professional coaching structures/academies.

Schools will once again have all the power with players leaving for overseas after school.

Eastern Suburbs with no Ole players and Auckland United de-merge?

how do you get to this?

FIFA don't allow loans in an amateur league - so we have been told anyway

NRF - Northern Region Football (the new federation from the merge between AFF and NFF) - it is easily confused with NRFL being the league.

Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing?  If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.

there could be some average implications for other clubs who need to have their youth quota. 

Actually, I'm better disposed to this model now I know it's going to involve proper enforcement of an amateur model. The biggest issue of the existing system is how much money was sloshing around NRFL (and Central League?) as opposed to the actual top level.

So how will the Southern Conference work? A South Island league as in previous years?

From what I have been told it is a 2 round Mainland Premier League, (and I assume the same in the Southern Premier League).  The top five MPL then play a one round comp with the top 3 SPL, with the top 2 teams of that going into the National League. 

On the womans side it would initially be (with the entry in brackets being the club in a year or twos time)

Eastern Suburbs

Hamilton Wanderers

Forest Hill Milford (Northern Rovers)

Auckland United

Central (Marist Palmerston North)

Capital (Wellington United)

Canterbury Pride (Coastal Spirit)

Southern  (Dunedin Tech) 

I mention this in the mens thread because it illustrates the potential importance of loan or perhaps the proper terminology is guest players. Of the 4 northern clubs listed, I don't think any their goalkeepers are currently playing in the NWL.  Only Central Fed and Canterbury Pride would have the same keeper and even then Central Fed keeper went off injured so might not be on park this weekend.

4 of the AFF that started on Saturday play for WS and Ellerslie and so would either be missing out or looking to move next season.

IMHO you need to have an effective guest mechanism so that a) it is the best against the best.and b) you lessen the annual cannibalisation of the clubs that do not make the championship phase.