Women's World Cup 2023 - Ozealand

austin111
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coochiee wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Yipe undeserving for the moment. Whoever wins OFC qualifying will only do it by default in NZ's absence.

on that argument you could say that NZ only qualify because Australai decamped to Asia

Maybe we should move a number of OFC women's teams into say the AFC, so American Samoa can qualify for WWC out of OFC. That would be a great feelgood story.

Your rationale that the only way the Islands Women's teams, are going to get better is by playing the big nations at a WWC, is seriously flawed. For sure playing better quality teams is part of the journey, to improving standards. But getting a serious of large hidings, and just learning various ways to park the bus - can also be detrimental long term. 

Ben Sigmund I remember talked about being with the New Zealand U-17 team that was at the U-17 World Cup in 1997. He said it was a disaster, they lost all three games, conceding 22 goals, which included a 13-0 hiding from Spain. 

The way he told the story, was that he learnt squat, the team mostly felt embarrassed/humiliated with some serious mental scars. I think a few of the boys even gave up football, when they returned home.

Much greater progress will be made by FIFA investment in quality programmes in the Islands (bleeding obvious), and getting a number of girls scholarships to Weenix Academy (esp if W League gets up and going), and/or Ole.

And yeah if a Nix W League team signed some senior Island players that would also be a massive boost.

To me a fair qualifying path for 2023 WWC would be a 0.5 spot to OFC, with a two legged playoff against a 0.5 spot team from women's AFC. Then if PNG, Fiji or whoever are good enough they'll make it.

This

Completely agree with this. I was in France for the last WWC and I watched lots of games including a few live. What was obvious was the spread in quality between the top and bottom teams. Much more so than the men’s WC. There were only 24 teams in France and the consen after was that they were really struggling to fill the roster with teams that would not be a disaster. The Thai team were totally outclassed. Their trashing by the USA was humiliating. The spin after was that it was good for their development but the local media reported the Thai team were in tears after the match and distraught about how their embarrassing performance would be perceived back home. 

Expanding the WWC to 32 teams is stupid IMO. It has nothing to do with development but is driven by FIFA wanting $$$ in TV, sponsorship etc. FIFA have suddenly realized that women’s football globally is a big deal and can be milked for more cash.  If FIFA want to expand the  womens game then they should pour much more money into coaching, facilities and more matches for women. If you want to have 32 teams at the WWC they should have a pool for the bottom 10 teams who play amongst themselves and have their own final. Teams ranked 24 to 32 will be butchered at the next WWC. Expect scores of 15+ goals. It will seriously undermine the credibility of the tournament.

Ranix
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austin111 wrote:

coochiee wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Yipe undeserving for the moment. Whoever wins OFC qualifying will only do it by default in NZ's absence.

on that argument you could say that NZ only qualify because Australai decamped to Asia

Maybe we should move a number of OFC women's teams into say the AFC, so American Samoa can qualify for WWC out of OFC. That would be a great feelgood story.

Your rationale that the only way the Islands Women's teams, are going to get better is by playing the big nations at a WWC, is seriously flawed. For sure playing better quality teams is part of the journey, to improving standards. But getting a serious of large hidings, and just learning various ways to park the bus - can also be detrimental long term. 

Ben Sigmund I remember talked about being with the New Zealand U-17 team that was at the U-17 World Cup in 1997. He said it was a disaster, they lost all three games, conceding 22 goals, which included a 13-0 hiding from Spain. 

The way he told the story, was that he learnt squat, the team mostly felt embarrassed/humiliated with some serious mental scars. I think a few of the boys even gave up football, when they returned home.

Much greater progress will be made by FIFA investment in quality programmes in the Islands (bleeding obvious), and getting a number of girls scholarships to Weenix Academy (esp if W League gets up and going), and/or Ole.

And yeah if a Nix W League team signed some senior Island players that would also be a massive boost.

To me a fair qualifying path for 2023 WWC would be a 0.5 spot to OFC, with a two legged playoff against a 0.5 spot team from women's AFC. Then if PNG, Fiji or whoever are good enough they'll make it.

This

Completely agree with this. I was in France for the last WWC and I watched lots of games including a few live. What was obvious was the spread in quality between the top and bottom teams. Much more so than the men’s WC. There were only 24 teams in France and the consen after was that they were really struggling to fill the roster with teams that would not be a disaster. The Thai team were totally outclassed. Their trashing by the USA was humiliating. The spin after was that it was good for their development but the local media reported the Thai team were in tears after the match and distraught about how their embarrassing performance would be perceived back home. 

Expanding the WWC to 32 teams is stupid IMO. It has nothing to do with development but is driven by FIFA wanting $$$ in TV, sponsorship etc. FIFA have suddenly realized that women’s football globally is a big deal and can be milked for more cash.  If FIFA want to expand the  womens game then they should pour much more money into coaching, facilities and more matches for women. If you want to have 32 teams at the WWC they should have a pool for the bottom 10 teams who play amongst themselves and have their own final. Teams ranked 24 to 32 will be butchered at the next WWC. Expect scores of 15+ goals. It will seriously undermine the credibility of the tournament.

The Thai team were in tears, not helped by the humiliating way the US womens team acted even when the game was a forgone conclusion. It was disgraceful.

But I like your ideas about a bottom pool and giving those developing nation teams something to play for. Not sure exactly how. Plate final kind of thing I guess. 

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whatever wrote:

There is one down side to this good news. We will probably be put to sleep by Mia Jackman if she is part of the commentary team.

She could team up with Fred and make a perfect DREAM team.

andrewvoerman
Getting paid to be here
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Ranix wrote:

austin111 wrote:

coochiee wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Yipe undeserving for the moment. Whoever wins OFC qualifying will only do it by default in NZ's absence.

on that argument you could say that NZ only qualify because Australai decamped to Asia

Maybe we should move a number of OFC women's teams into say the AFC, so American Samoa can qualify for WWC out of OFC. That would be a great feelgood story.

Your rationale that the only way the Islands Women's teams, are going to get better is by playing the big nations at a WWC, is seriously flawed. For sure playing better quality teams is part of the journey, to improving standards. But getting a serious of large hidings, and just learning various ways to park the bus - can also be detrimental long term. 

Ben Sigmund I remember talked about being with the New Zealand U-17 team that was at the U-17 World Cup in 1997. He said it was a disaster, they lost all three games, conceding 22 goals, which included a 13-0 hiding from Spain. 

The way he told the story, was that he learnt squat, the team mostly felt embarrassed/humiliated with some serious mental scars. I think a few of the boys even gave up football, when they returned home.

Much greater progress will be made by FIFA investment in quality programmes in the Islands (bleeding obvious), and getting a number of girls scholarships to Weenix Academy (esp if W League gets up and going), and/or Ole.

And yeah if a Nix W League team signed some senior Island players that would also be a massive boost.

To me a fair qualifying path for 2023 WWC would be a 0.5 spot to OFC, with a two legged playoff against a 0.5 spot team from women's AFC. Then if PNG, Fiji or whoever are good enough they'll make it.

This

Completely agree with this. I was in France for the last WWC and I watched lots of games including a few live. What was obvious was the spread in quality between the top and bottom teams. Much more so than the men’s WC. There were only 24 teams in France and the consen after was that they were really struggling to fill the roster with teams that would not be a disaster. The Thai team were totally outclassed. Their trashing by the USA was humiliating. The spin after was that it was good for their development but the local media reported the Thai team were in tears after the match and distraught about how their embarrassing performance would be perceived back home. 

Expanding the WWC to 32 teams is stupid IMO. It has nothing to do with development but is driven by FIFA wanting $$$ in TV, sponsorship etc. FIFA have suddenly realized that women’s football globally is a big deal and can be milked for more cash.  If FIFA want to expand the  womens game then they should pour much more money into coaching, facilities and more matches for women. If you want to have 32 teams at the WWC they should have a pool for the bottom 10 teams who play amongst themselves and have their own final. Teams ranked 24 to 32 will be butchered at the next WWC. Expect scores of 15+ goals. It will seriously undermine the credibility of the tournament.

The Thai team were in tears, not helped by the humiliating way the US womens team acted even when the game was a forgone conclusion. It was disgraceful.

But I like your ideas about a bottom pool and giving those developing nation teams something to play for. Not sure exactly how. Plate final kind of thing I guess. 

Not sure the Thai team took it quite the way you suggest: https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-world-cup-miranda-nild-alex-morgan-20190611-story.html

Ranix
WeeNix
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Ranix wrote:

austin111 wrote:

coochiee wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Yipe undeserving for the moment. Whoever wins OFC qualifying will only do it by default in NZ's absence.

on that argument you could say that NZ only qualify because Australai decamped to Asia

Maybe we should move a number of OFC women's teams into say the AFC, so American Samoa can qualify for WWC out of OFC. That would be a great feelgood story.

Your rationale that the only way the Islands Women's teams, are going to get better is by playing the big nations at a WWC, is seriously flawed. For sure playing better quality teams is part of the journey, to improving standards. But getting a serious of large hidings, and just learning various ways to park the bus - can also be detrimental long term. 

Ben Sigmund I remember talked about being with the New Zealand U-17 team that was at the U-17 World Cup in 1997. He said it was a disaster, they lost all three games, conceding 22 goals, which included a 13-0 hiding from Spain. 

The way he told the story, was that he learnt squat, the team mostly felt embarrassed/humiliated with some serious mental scars. I think a few of the boys even gave up football, when they returned home.

Much greater progress will be made by FIFA investment in quality programmes in the Islands (bleeding obvious), and getting a number of girls scholarships to Weenix Academy (esp if W League gets up and going), and/or Ole.

And yeah if a Nix W League team signed some senior Island players that would also be a massive boost.

To me a fair qualifying path for 2023 WWC would be a 0.5 spot to OFC, with a two legged playoff against a 0.5 spot team from women's AFC. Then if PNG, Fiji or whoever are good enough they'll make it.

This

Completely agree with this. I was in France for the last WWC and I watched lots of games including a few live. What was obvious was the spread in quality between the top and bottom teams. Much more so than the men’s WC. There were only 24 teams in France and the consen after was that they were really struggling to fill the roster with teams that would not be a disaster. The Thai team were totally outclassed. Their trashing by the USA was humiliating. The spin after was that it was good for their development but the local media reported the Thai team were in tears after the match and distraught about how their embarrassing performance would be perceived back home. 

Expanding the WWC to 32 teams is stupid IMO. It has nothing to do with development but is driven by FIFA wanting $$$ in TV, sponsorship etc. FIFA have suddenly realized that women’s football globally is a big deal and can be milked for more cash.  If FIFA want to expand the  womens game then they should pour much more money into coaching, facilities and more matches for women. If you want to have 32 teams at the WWC they should have a pool for the bottom 10 teams who play amongst themselves and have their own final. Teams ranked 24 to 32 will be butchered at the next WWC. Expect scores of 15+ goals. It will seriously undermine the credibility of the tournament.

The Thai team were in tears, not helped by the humiliating way the US womens team acted even when the game was a forgone conclusion. It was disgraceful.

But I like your ideas about a bottom pool and giving those developing nation teams something to play for. Not sure exactly how. Plate final kind of thing I guess. 

Not sure the Thai team took it quite the way you suggest: https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-world...

Nice feel good story by LA  Times. But are you sure its not just the American's trying to make excuses for there bad behaviour after the fact.

Does point out though what an honour it can be for developing nations to play at world cups even if that means getting well beaten. 

andrewvoerman
Getting paid to be here
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Ranix wrote:

Ranix wrote:

austin111 wrote:

coochiee wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Yipe undeserving for the moment. Whoever wins OFC qualifying will only do it by default in NZ's absence.

on that argument you could say that NZ only qualify because Australai decamped to Asia

Maybe we should move a number of OFC women's teams into say the AFC, so American Samoa can qualify for WWC out of OFC. That would be a great feelgood story.

Your rationale that the only way the Islands Women's teams, are going to get better is by playing the big nations at a WWC, is seriously flawed. For sure playing better quality teams is part of the journey, to improving standards. But getting a serious of large hidings, and just learning various ways to park the bus - can also be detrimental long term. 

Ben Sigmund I remember talked about being with the New Zealand U-17 team that was at the U-17 World Cup in 1997. He said it was a disaster, they lost all three games, conceding 22 goals, which included a 13-0 hiding from Spain. 

The way he told the story, was that he learnt squat, the team mostly felt embarrassed/humiliated with some serious mental scars. I think a few of the boys even gave up football, when they returned home.

Much greater progress will be made by FIFA investment in quality programmes in the Islands (bleeding obvious), and getting a number of girls scholarships to Weenix Academy (esp if W League gets up and going), and/or Ole.

And yeah if a Nix W League team signed some senior Island players that would also be a massive boost.

To me a fair qualifying path for 2023 WWC would be a 0.5 spot to OFC, with a two legged playoff against a 0.5 spot team from women's AFC. Then if PNG, Fiji or whoever are good enough they'll make it.

This

Completely agree with this. I was in France for the last WWC and I watched lots of games including a few live. What was obvious was the spread in quality between the top and bottom teams. Much more so than the men’s WC. There were only 24 teams in France and the consen after was that they were really struggling to fill the roster with teams that would not be a disaster. The Thai team were totally outclassed. Their trashing by the USA was humiliating. The spin after was that it was good for their development but the local media reported the Thai team were in tears after the match and distraught about how their embarrassing performance would be perceived back home. 

Expanding the WWC to 32 teams is stupid IMO. It has nothing to do with development but is driven by FIFA wanting $$$ in TV, sponsorship etc. FIFA have suddenly realized that women’s football globally is a big deal and can be milked for more cash.  If FIFA want to expand the  womens game then they should pour much more money into coaching, facilities and more matches for women. If you want to have 32 teams at the WWC they should have a pool for the bottom 10 teams who play amongst themselves and have their own final. Teams ranked 24 to 32 will be butchered at the next WWC. Expect scores of 15+ goals. It will seriously undermine the credibility of the tournament.

The Thai team were in tears, not helped by the humiliating way the US womens team acted even when the game was a forgone conclusion. It was disgraceful.

But I like your ideas about a bottom pool and giving those developing nation teams something to play for. Not sure exactly how. Plate final kind of thing I guess. 

Not sure the Thai team took it quite the way you suggest: https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-world...

Nice feel good story by LA  Times. But are you sure its not just the American's trying to make excuses for there bad behaviour after the fact.

Does point out though what an honour it can be for developing nations to play at world cups even if that means getting well beaten. 

Literally quotes a Thai player.

Not that I don't agree with the idea that expansion for 2023 is stupid and will lead to plenty of mismatches, but there's plenty of evidence from Thailand football that they were not as offended as many neutral spectators were. 

austin111
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I don’t really want to draw out the debate about the emotional state of the Thai team. I just based my assessment at the time  on what I read in the local French press who seemed to have unfettered access to the Thai team.I It’s not really a big story.

What is a big story is Team USA Women coming to NZ. I had the privilege to be in a town where TEAM USA played at the WC in France. They are one of the biggest sporting brands in the USA....men and women, and it shows. The size of their entourage is breath taking. They freight enormous tonnes of equipment where ever  they go. They have support teams of just about everything you could think of. From beauticians, sports psychologists, chefs, dieticians, hair dressers, motivators. Then there are the normal support you see with a WC squad, coaches, physiotherapists video analysts etc etc. There seemed to be people everywhere.

The security was almost presidential. Everywhere around the team you saw these hulking guys with curly wires coming out their ears. They looked like the sort of guys who would taser you and put you in the mother of all choke holds just for inappropriately asking for an autograph. Then there was the press and PR people. The team seemed to have more PR people than players. They probably needed it because it seemed like every press outlet in the USA had a media team following the USA team. They were all there CNN, Fox, CBS, ESPN etc. The stars like Alex Morgan and Rapahoe had their own entourages who followed them everywhere.

It was interesting to watch the PR machine grind into action after the Thai game. They were stung by the criticism of player arrogance during the match. After that it was all positive spin. They wheeled out a Thai official for a presser. The poor woman sat there in a sea of glistening perfect white teeth as she dutifully said how much an honor and a privilege it was for the Thai players to be hammered by the great USA. After that there were loads of puff pieces about how the USA players were just normal apple pie eating gals who all owned cute puppies and recycled stuff because it was good for the planet.

What is amazing is that this juggernaut will probably be rolling in to good old NZ for the 2023 WC. It’s going to be huge. Team USA is going to make the All Black show look like Wairarapa United(no offense Paul) It would be a dream to have the opening game USA vs NZ at Eden Park. You would have the whole road show there for at least a week. The buildup would be amazing. You would get a enormous number of USA fans in town. The Auckland hospitality industry could gouge to its maximum. Can’t wait!

I guess I should add a caviat . I think the USA women’s team is amazing. They have added a level of professionalism to sport that everyone should admire. They know what’s required to win, and they win very often.

coochiee
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Cheers for that. Interesting read on US Women's team. 

Another thing about that US paper article is they interviewed a Thai player who was born and raised in the USA. So she may well respond differently (perhaps a little less humiliation) to being thrashed, compared to the majority of team who live in Siam, and returned there after conceding 13 goals.

Think nearly all Kiwis (me included) are going to be surprised by how big a deal the WWC has now become.

Though imagine FFA will be doing all they can to get Team USA, based in Australia for their pool games, to maximise publicity. Will be interesting to see how they are portrayed. Possibly the team everyone else loves to hate. Endless chants of "U..S..A", "U..S..A", as they crush all comers may not be that well liked by Kiwi or Aussie fans.

Also not sure will get as many travelling fans downunder in winter, as would have got travelling to beautiful Francia in summer. Normally millions of Americans go to Europe every NH summer, and that would have included many casual football fans last year. 

andrewvoerman
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austin111 wrote:

I don’t really want to draw out the debate about the emotional state of the Thai team. I just based my assessment at the time  on what I read in the local French press who seemed to have unfettered access to the Thai team.I It’s not really a big story.

What is a big story is Team USA Women coming to NZ. I had the privilege to be in a town where TEAM USA played at the WC in France. They are one of the biggest sporting brands in the USA....men and women, and it shows. The size of their entourage is breath taking. They freight enormous tonnes of equipment where ever  they go. They have support teams of just about everything you could think of. From beauticians, sports psychologists, chefs, dieticians, hair dressers, motivators. Then there are the normal support you see with a WC squad, coaches, physiotherapists video analysts etc etc. There seemed to be people everywhere.

The security was almost presidential. Everywhere around the team you saw these hulking guys with curly wires coming out their ears. They looked like the sort of guys who would taser you and put you in the mother of all choke holds just for inappropriately asking for an autograph. Then there was the press and PR people. The team seemed to have more PR people than players. They probably needed it because it seemed like every press outlet in the USA had a media team following the USA team. They were all there CNN, Fox, CBS, ESPN etc. The stars like Alex Morgan and Rapahoe had their own entourages who followed them everywhere.

It was interesting to watch the PR machine grind into action after the Thai game. They were stung by the criticism of player arrogance during the match. After that it was all positive spin. They wheeled out a Thai official for a presser. The poor woman sat there in a sea of glistening perfect white teeth as she dutifully said how much an honor and a privilege it was for the Thai players to be hammered by the great USA. After that there were loads of puff pieces about how the USA players were just normal apple pie eating gals who all owned cute puppies and recycled stuff because it was good for the planet.

What is amazing is that this juggernaut will probably be rolling in to good old NZ for the 2023 WC. It’s going to be huge. Team USA is going to make the All Black show look like Wairarapa United(no offense Paul) It would be a dream to have the opening game USA vs NZ at Eden Park. You would have the whole road show there for at least a week. The buildup would be amazing. You would get a enormous number of USA fans in town. The Auckland hospitality industry could gouge to its maximum. Can’t wait!

I guess I should add a caviat . I think the USA women’s team is amazing. They have added a level of professionalism to sport that everyone should admire. They know what’s required to win, and they win very often.

Sadly (or perhaps not sadly, I know for sure our players don't want to be in the same group as them) the US and NZ will almost certainly be in the same pot for the draw.

Edit: Not wanting to be Debbie Downer. On a brighter note, presuming we get four pools here as proposed, we will get 7 of the top 15 teams in the world playing here.

Royz
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Does anyone have any idea if the Ferns games will be on Free To Air TV? Surely for these games to be successful u would need them on a free TV station?. More so Ferns then anything else.

Doloras
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Just reading the new oral history of Aus/NZ women's football in the 70s, and I had no idea that the first coach of what are now the Football Ferns was Dave Farrington. Respect.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

The JourneyFan
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Doloras wrote:

Just reading the new oral history of Aus/NZ women's football in the 70s, and I had no idea that the first coach of what are now the Football Ferns was Dave Farrington. Respect.

My mum was an inaugural member of the NZWFA and played a big part in setting up the National tournament. She also introduced Women's football to Newlands College - was laughed at at first, but took a team up several divisions and got noticed and was asked to join Dave Farrington and Dave Boardman with the NZ set up. She didn't stick around long as she realised pretty quickly she was the token female and they weren't really interested in her coaching ideas but she was useful to place cones!!!

http://thejourneyfan.blogspot.co.nz/

New Zealand Football Media Association Website of the year 2015 & 2016

coochiee
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