Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

Marto wrote:

AlfStamp wrote:

There is only one sensible option, Buckingham. He has shown how we can play and we have enough AW's capable of playing the way Buckingham had the U20's playing. Hay would be awful.

Would he get the respect of senior All Whites who are of a similar age and have played at a higher level than him?

Caretaker role surely initially. Absolutely no hurry to make a full time appointment. One game in 2019! 

Then I presume nothing until an OFC Nations Cup in May-June 2020??

Have confidence in Buckingham, but it's one thing to coach a bunch of kids - completely different to earning the respect of Reid, Wood, Smith, M Boxall & co.

Give him the Irish game and make a call after that.

Definitely give him the U23s for next few months.

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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over 16 years

MetalLegNZ wrote:

why would Hay be awful?

Did well with age group teams and ES this year. Honest and upfront character, who is passionate about the jersey.

His age group sides played awful football. He was literally handed the best young team in the country at Eastern Suburbs by Declan, and fair play, they won the title. At the same time, despite having the overall best young talent in the league, they still lost 4 of the 5 games against Auckland City and Team Wellington.

As for honesty and character...well. Let's just say there are a number of people in the game who would strenuously disagree with that.

WeeNix
760
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750
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over 9 years

coochiee wrote:

Marto wrote:

AlfStamp wrote:

There is only one sensible option, Buckingham. He has shown how we can play and we have enough AW's capable of playing the way Buckingham had the U20's playing. Hay would be awful.

Would he get the respect of senior All Whites who are of a similar age and have played at a higher level than him?

Caretaker role surely initially. Absolutely no hurry to make a full time appointment. One game in 2019! 

Then I presume nothing until an OFC Nations Cup in May-June 2020??

Have confidence in Buckingham, but it's one thing to coach a bunch of kids - completely different to earning the respect of Reid, Wood, Smith, M Boxall & co.

Give him the Irish game and make a call after that.

Definitely give him the U23s for next few months.

I always find this stuff a bit strange. We are talking about highly paid dedicated professionals who have during their careers from child through to adult had to work with a large number of coaches and managers. I cant imagine Reid, Wood, Smith etc etc etc not giving him the respect he deserves especially when you consider what sort of men they all are. Total professionals.

Starting XI
880
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2.5K
·
about 12 years

anyone questioning the resignation for any reason?  hearing some whispers he was pushed.

If there is any truth to this then it's not a good start for the new Board and CEO.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

AlfStamp wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Marto wrote:

AlfStamp wrote:

There is only one sensible option, Buckingham. He has shown how we can play and we have enough AW's capable of playing the way Buckingham had the U20's playing. Hay would be awful.

Would he get the respect of senior All Whites who are of a similar age and have played at a higher level than him?

Caretaker role surely initially. Absolutely no hurry to make a full time appointment. One game in 2019! 

Then I presume nothing until an OFC Nations Cup in May-June 2020??

Have confidence in Buckingham, but it's one thing to coach a bunch of kids - completely different to earning the respect of Reid, Wood, Smith, M Boxall & co.

Give him the Irish game and make a call after that.

Definitely give him the U23s for next few months.

I always find this stuff a bit strange. We are talking about highly paid dedicated professionals who have during their careers from child through to adult had to work with a large number of coaches and managers. I cant imagine Reid, Wood, Smith etc etc etc not giving him the respect he deserves especially when you consider what sort of men they all are. Total professionals.

Yipe and they (esp Wood & Reid) are vastly experienced, and have worked with some of the biggest name managers in the UK. By comparison Buckingham is a mere pup. They will know scant about him. 

Not saying at all they will disrespect him, but they will have expectations of him, especially if he is to guide the AWs into a WC qualifying campaign towards Qatar 2026 - possibly last chance of being at a WC for both.

Logically the NZF honchos would want their feedback, if Buckingham was appointed as a caretaker first.

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
200
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2.2K
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over 16 years

Being in Oceania, especially since we left means getting quality games, and games that not only fund themselves but fill the cash draws as well is very difficult, when many of your best play all over the world... On my bended knees I am so glad we are in Asia.... the Union dominance is another factor as well...

The lack of funds also effects the ability to appoint quality management and this all adds to the extras needed to operate successfully in highly competitive tournaments.

Other than Oceania being  dissolved you will carry a great burden in having to overcome the perceptions of Oceania meaning any side that can make an impact will be a truly great side...     

Maybe time to appoint that Auckland coach ... 

Good luck ... 

WeeNix
890
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960
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about 7 years

coochiee wrote:

Yipe and they (esp Wood & Reid) are vastly experienced, and have worked with some of the biggest name managers in the UK. By comparison Buckingham is a mere pup. They will know scant about him. 

Not saying at all they will disrespect him, but they will have expectations of him, especially if he is to guide the AWs into a WC qualifying campaign towards Qatar 2026 - possibly last chance of being at a WC for both.

Logically the NZF honchos would want their feedback, if Buckingham was appointed as a caretaker first.

They played for Hudson. How much of an issue could they possibly have with Des!

and 2 others
Marquee
970
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6.5K
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over 11 years

chopah wrote:

anyone questioning the resignation for any reason?  hearing some whispers he was pushed.

If there is any truth to this then it's not a good start for the new Board and CEO.

According to Burgess in today's Herald for the last few months there has been ongoing disagreement between Schmid and NZF Technical Director Andy Boyens over "differences in philosophy on how to proceed forward."

LG
Legend
5.5K
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23K
·
over 16 years

I hear Schmidt got sick of watching paint dry in between games.

Marquee
3.7K
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5.4K
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over 11 years

that makes no sense with games finally on the way... why now?

Still rather that than the rumour we don't have a team selected for the upcoming tour.

First Team Squad
270
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1.9K
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almost 17 years

Fritz Schmidt shall henceforth be known as the most laugh-worthy AWs coach since Jumpin' Joe McGrath.

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
·
about 17 years

I always thought he came across well and his teams were well put together.

Unless someone can actually tell me what he did wrong, I'm keeping him well away from Joe McGrath comparisons

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

ClubOranje wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Yipe and they (esp Wood & Reid) are vastly experienced, and have worked with some of the biggest name managers in the UK. By comparison Buckingham is a mere pup. They will know scant about him. 

Not saying at all they will disrespect him, but they will have expectations of him, especially if he is to guide the AWs into a WC qualifying campaign towards Qatar 2026 - possibly last chance of being at a WC for both.

Logically the NZF honchos would want their feedback, if Buckingham was appointed as a caretaker first.

They played for Hudson. How much of an issue could they possibly have with Des!

Huddo. Mentioning his name on here is akin, to throwing a bloody piece carrion into a piranha infested stretch of the Amazon and watching the agua turn to foam. His club coaching record ranges from dire to awful, but the AWs group pretty much all sang his praises when he skipped off. Go figure. It's probably very different in the Rapids changing rooms.

Seems logical that Buckingham be given a chance to coach the AWs against Ireland in November. It was impressive how well the U20s went. Though if some agrue that Hay with ES just inherited Edge's gifted Ole boys in a different name, Des also benefited from having the most talented group of U20s to leave these shores.

Buckingham also had extended periods of time with most of the U20 players. First at OFC U19 qualifying in the Islands, camps in NZ, visits to the Handy Prem clubs (the core of team were either at ES or Nix/Weenix), and then pretty much 3-4 weeks in Polska itself. He'll already know this, but coaching the AWs is vastly different. Generally 3-4 days together pre a game, with players coming in from all over the globe. But again he'll know all that.

So give him the role, if initially just on a caretaker basis. Also helps he seems pretty well liked within domestic NZ football circles, and the story of him financing some of his own overseas travel expenses to visit young Kiwi players overseas, prior to Poland, is a nice one.

What is curious is over the last few years there was heavy criticism that NZF was far too UK centric. Both admin & coaching wise. Lets get some continental Euros in, was much of the talk. Off went likes of Hudson & 'retired' Martin and in came two 60yrish Euro gents in Heraf & Schmid. Now off they go. Maybe the road ahead at NZF is younger and more Kiwi (Buckingham being an adopted one).

Starting XI
280
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2.7K
·
over 16 years

Some people were arguing for kiwis when Fritz and Heraf came in...

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

I’m good with Buckingham. His primary initial goal is surely Olympic qualification, which will be a challenge given likely player availability. 

If they can work together Danny could offer something worthwhile/different as Assistant. 

WeeNix
890
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960
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about 7 years

coochiee wrote:

ClubOranje wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Yipe and they (esp Wood & Reid) are vastly experienced, and have worked with some of the biggest name managers in the UK. By comparison Buckingham is a mere pup. They will know scant about him. 

Not saying at all they will disrespect him, but they will have expectations of him, especially if he is to guide the AWs into a WC qualifying campaign towards Qatar 2026 - possibly last chance of being at a WC for both.

Logically the NZF honchos would want their feedback, if Buckingham was appointed as a caretaker first.

They played for Hudson. How much of an issue could they possibly have with Des!

Huddo. Mentioning his name on here is akin, to throwing a bloody piece carrion into a piranha infested stretch of the Amazon and watching the agua turn to foam. His club coaching record ranges from dire to awful, but the AWs group pretty much all sang his praises when he skipped off. Go figure. It's probably very different in the Rapids changing rooms.

Seems logical that Buckingham be given a chance to coach the AWs against Ireland in November. It was impressive how well the U20s went. Though if some agrue that Hay with ES just inherited Edge's gifted Ole boys in a different name, Des also benefited from having the most talented group of U20s to leave these shores.

Buckingham also had extended periods of time with most of the U20 players. First at OFC U19 qualifying in the Islands, camps in NZ, visits to the Handy Prem clubs (the core of team were either at ES or Nix/Weenix), and then pretty much 3-4 weeks in Polska itself. He'll already know this, but coaching the AWs is vastly different. Generally 3-4 days together pre a game, with players coming in from all over the globe. But again he'll know all that.

So give him the role, if initially just on a caretaker basis. Also helps he seems pretty well liked within domestic NZ football circles, and the story of him financing some of his own overseas travel expenses to visit young Kiwi players overseas, prior to Poland, is a nice one.

What is curious is over the last few years there was heavy criticism that NZF was far too UK centric. Both admin & coaching wise. Lets get some continental Euros in, was much of the talk. Off went likes of Hudson & 'retired' Martin and in came two 60yrish Euro gents in Heraf & Schmid. Now off they go. Maybe the road ahead at NZF is younger and more Kiwi (Buckingham being an adopted one).

Urgency is for the OlyWhites. Give Des them for this cycle and the November AW match, and use the period for both parties to decide it is a good long term fit. Then go for a term to 2026 WC

Legend
11K
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21K
·
almost 9 years

Some people were arguing for kiwis when Fritz and Heraf came in...

Well with Pragnell as CEO, Andy Boyens as acting TD (must be a chance of being permanently appointed if he wants that role), and coaches like Buckingham & Figueira (adopted Kiwis) around they probably have their wish. A pretty young brigade at that.


Hopefully this clean start works!

Sounds like Boyens & Schmid falling out was a major reason for the Swiss leaving. With some "dangerous reading of the tea leaves" that Pragnell backed Boyens.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/113638717/all-whites-coach-fritz-schmid-to-make-shock-exit-from-new-zealand-football

Comments from Pragnell.

"Looking at the All Whites role, I think there is a good opportunity for us to pause and reflect, given the cyclical nature of the nine international teams that we run, and ask – is the role framed up in the right way? Is it sufficiently integrated with the age-group sides? Is it sufficiently integrated with domestic coaching and coach education?

"I wouldn't speak specifically to this particular situation, but I think it's a really good opportunity to see if, over past cycles, we have done the right thing, and I will certainly listen to the football community and I think there's a desire to see some change there, in the way the role looks like going forward." 

Phoenix Academy
130
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440
·
over 16 years

Comments from Pragnell.

"Looking at the All Whites role, I think there is a good opportunity for us to pause and reflect, given the cyclical nature of the nine international teams that we run, and ask – is the role framed up in the right way? Is it sufficiently integrated with the age-group sides? Is it sufficiently integrated with domestic coaching and coach education?

"I wouldn't speak specifically to this particular situation, but I think it's a really good opportunity to see if, over past cycles, we have done the right thing, and I will certainly listen to the football community and I think there's a desire to see some change there, in the way the role looks like going forward."

Seems combining of roles and restructure of current scenario will be the order of the day. Makes sense to me given the lack of games t AW level and the monetary situation

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

I think Pragnell has also stated a preference on a longer term appointment, beyond 2022. So the new coach is given a longer time horizon, than just current qualifying cycle. He touched on the current All Blacks model of coaching succession. Has some merit, as long as you avoid staleness.

Hardly a problem with AWs if you only meet up one-twice a year.

I think that indicates even more that the appointment(s) are likely to be younger coaches already based in NZ, ie Buckingham, Figueira, Greenacre, Hay

Legend
6.8K
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14K
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over 16 years

reg22 wrote:

I always thought he came across well and his teams were well put together.

Unless someone can actually tell me what he did wrong, I'm keeping him well away from Joe McGrath comparisons

Don't think Heraf being a muppet and general NZF can be put at Schmid's door. 

WeeNix
390
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900
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almost 11 years

Heraf was coached centre rather that player centred coach which prob not what players were used to. Moaning about getting a ballicking for passing the back in midfield specifically after the coach has asked you not to do it... what are you really expecting? The coach to say well done...

I think players didnt want to hear the home truths about the actually level they are at. Not the happy family they had been under Reading.  But obviously alot more to it in the bigger picture. At the end of Day Heraf prob shouldn't have been here in the first place.

Marquee
1.7K
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7.5K
·
almost 17 years

Heraf was coached centre rather that player centred coach which prob not what players were used to. Moaning about getting a ballicking for passing the back in midfield specifically after the coach has asked you not to do it... what are you really expecting? The coach to say well done...

I think players didnt want to hear the home truths about the actually level they are at. Not the happy family they had been under Reading.  But obviously alot more to it in the bigger picture. At the end of Day Heraf prob shouldn't have been here in the first place.

Do you want Heraf going through and uprooting our Whole of Football philosophy to institute Chip & STAR.  It wasn't just the Football Ferns that were doing being enforced upon.  I remember seeing stories that younger kids at various NZF programmes were also being told all of a sudden after being taught a passing philosophy that the centre half couldn't pass on the deck to a midfielder etc...

I don't know about you, but watching our U20's would have been an entirely different experience if that sort of philosophy had of been in place.

WeeNix
390
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900
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almost 11 years

aitkenmike wrote:

Heraf was coached centre rather that player centred coach which prob not what players were used to. Moaning about getting a ballicking for passing the back in midfield specifically after the coach has asked you not to do it... what are you really expecting? The coach to say well done...

I think players didnt want to hear the home truths about the actually level they are at. Not the happy family they had been under Reading.  But obviously alot more to it in the bigger picture. At the end of Day Heraf prob shouldn't have been here in the first place.

Do you want Heraf going through and uprooting our Whole of Football philosophy to institute Chip & STAR.  It wasn't just the Football Ferns that were doing being enforced upon.  I remember seeing stories that younger kids at various NZF programmes were also being told all of a sudden after being taught a passing philosophy that the centre half couldn't pass on the deck to a midfielder etc...

I don't know about you, but watching our U20's would have been an entirely different experience if that sort of philosophy had of been in place.

I'm talking about his style of coaching! Not his philosophy and how he wanted to play, which by all accounts was terrible.  He told the players "dont pass back" the player passes back and then is upset when he pulls her up on it, rather than saying well done I'm glad you made your own decision and went against what I specifically asked you not to do. 

That is obviously what he was used to doing, and what these players not used to doing. 

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