LG
Legend
5.5K
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23K
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over 16 years

To be fair to Schmid not sure what more he could do if he's not given any games to coach

He practices by playing as New Zealand on E A Sports Fifa 19

Legend
8K
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14K
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over 16 years

Global Game wrote:

what a compete dick tweet by Edge! I'd love to see what Edge thinks Hay would do differently with no games to play/manage.

Unless he thinks schmid is to blame for the lack of games for the AW's??

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
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about 17 years

I love it how Declan forms these little alliances and sprays his temporary love for them all over social media

Cock
2.7K
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16K
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over 14 years

But I thought Declan was a Ramon endorser.... My head is spinning.

I think ultimately it comes back to Declan wants someone there that he can control.

Legend
2.3K
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17K
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about 17 years

Presumably Declan also thinks Tom Sermanni should be booted as Ferns coach for someone who does it "the NZ way".

Jag
Not Elite enough
730
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8K
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almost 17 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

But I thought Declan was a Ramon endorser.... My head is spinning.

I think ultimately it comes back to Declan wants someone there that he can control.

Replace 'The NZ way' with 'My way/the Ole way'.

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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over 16 years

Jag wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

But I thought Declan was a Ramon endorser.... My head is spinning.

I think ultimately it comes back to Declan wants someone there that he can control.

Replace 'The NZ way' with 'My way/the Ole way'.

The only way is Declan

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

But I thought Declan was a Ramon endorser.... My head is spinning.

I think ultimately it comes back to Declan wants someone there that he can control.

Was is the key word there

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/112481769/all-whites-unlikely-to-play-in-june-but-coach-fritz-schmid-will-be-busy-regardless

Lots of meetings/catchups, and finally a bit of coaching - though not the AWs of course.

Has any other international senior mean's team played less in the last 2 years?  Question for a trainspotter

Marquee
2.7K
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7.2K
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almost 17 years

As if today wasn't depressing enough as it is. Thanks!!

GK
Phoenix Academy
100
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410
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over 10 years

NZFA need to get off their high horse and book games against Oceania opposition, at least they would be games, and tough ones at that.

It's like they have never heard of the Pacific or Asia, when teams like the Solomons are playing regularly against south east asian countries.

Starting XI
2.3K
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3.1K
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over 11 years

el grapadura wrote:

Jag wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

But I thought Declan was a Ramon endorser.... My head is spinning.

I think ultimately it comes back to Declan wants someone there that he can control.

Replace 'The NZ way' with 'My way/the Ole way'.

The only way is Declan

I think he brainwashes people/kids.

Starting XI
2.9K
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2.5K
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over 5 years

It's been so long it really does feel like, who is this guy Fritz Schmid.

Must be really hard for him to have any relationship with the players. Is a little reassuring to hear he was at the U20 world cup and a 

good move to enter an U23 team in the Pacific games so he can work with some of the fringe national players.

Starting XI
6.7K
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4.5K
·
over 9 years

GK wrote:

NZFA need to get off their high horse and book games against Oceania opposition, at least they would be games, and tough ones at that.

It's like they have never heard of the Pacific or Asia, when teams like the Solomons are playing regularly against south east asian countries.

To add to that, we actually just need to seriously look at leaving the OFC altogether and start knocking on the AFC door to let us in. 

No good continuing this boom and bust cycle based around WCQ and playoffs to get us some games if we're just sitting idle for several International windows in between times. For the moment we need to forget the World Cup and the future guarantees for an OFC spot at them, that's another 7 years away! If we continue at this rate we'll have a smattering of WCQ games against OFC teams and potentially a couple of playoff games to sustain us. We're potentially just wasting time on a golden generation of players who are coming through at the moment - players who are hungry to play and look to have solid futures in the game.

A move to the AFC will give us regular games against quality opposition in the form of WCQ and the Asian Cup (Potential for an Asian Nations League in future too, maybe...) and will give us a greater exposure as a footballing nation. Sure, we might not qualify for the World Cup, but we're not exactly doing much at the moment are we?

Would rather look forward to us having meaningful fixtures on a regular basis, regardless of whether we win/lose/draw, than having us sitting idle for extended periods and essentially getting geared up every 3-4 years for a pot shot at glory...

We haven't played for over a year now. Here's some context; Matches played by OFC Nations since June 7th 2018 - the date of our last match

Fiji have played 7 matches;

Solomon Islands have played 5 matches;

Vanuatu have played 5 matches; Playing away tonight v Indonesia

New Caledonia have played 4 matches;

Tahiti have played 2 matches;

Remind me again who's the big fish in a small pond?

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

YoungHeart wrote:

GK wrote:

NZFA need to get off their high horse and book games against Oceania opposition, at least they would be games, and tough ones at that.

It's like they have never heard of the Pacific or Asia, when teams like the Solomons are playing regularly against south east asian countries.

To add to that, we actually just need to seriously look at leaving the OFC altogether and start knocking on the AFC door to let us in. 

No good continuing this boom and bust cycle based around WCQ and playoffs to get us some games if we're just sitting idle for several International windows in between times. For the moment we need to forget the World Cup and the future guarantees for an OFC spot at them, that's another 7 years away! If we continue at this rate we'll have a smattering of WCQ games against OFC teams and potentially a couple of playoff games to sustain us. We're potentially just wasting time on a golden generation of players who are coming through at the moment - players who are hungry to play and look to have solid futures in the game.

A move to the AFC will give us regular games against quality opposition in the form of WCQ and the Asian Cup (Potential for an Asian Nations League in future too, maybe...) and will give us a greater exposure as a footballing nation. Sure, we might not qualify for the World Cup, but we're not exactly doing much at the moment are we?

Would rather look forward to us having meaningful fixtures on a regular basis, regardless of whether we win/lose/draw, than having us sitting idle for extended periods and essentially getting geared up every 3-4 years for a pot shot at glory...

We haven't played for over a year now. Here's some context; Matches played by OFC Nations since June 7th 2018 - the date of our last match

Fiji have played 7 matches;

Solomon Islands have played 5 matches;

Vanuatu have played 5 matches; Playing away tonight v Indonesia

New Caledonia have played 4 matches;

Tahiti have played 2 matches;

Remind me again who's the big fish in a small pond?

There is a lot I like about this post.

I'd much rather see 8-12 top quality AFC games (WC & Asian Cup qualifiers) played in NZ over a 4 year cycle (with most of the overseas stars coming back to play in NZ). A couple of those games are bound to have some knife edge tense drama, as AWs seek qualification. That's what the sport needs in NZ. The big overseas stars up close a few times per year, and big games in our time zone. Even if the AWs fail to qualify for World Cups.

Much better prospect, than 4-6 low quality home games against OFC minnows, over the same 4 years, supplanted by 2 almost guaranteed pool games at a World Cup played at 4am NZ time. Pools being reduced to 3 teams in a 48 team WC.

To me the biggest waste is having a striker in the world's most high profile league, who has scored over 20 goals in the last 2 EPL seasons and yet in that time he's played 20 mins on NZ soil. It's nuts really. A marketing disaster. He's probably unlikely to play in NZ, until mid-late 2020 at the earliest. Roughly 3 years after Peru November 2017!

It's getting to the stage now where we owe OFC nothing. 

They shafted ACFC & TW by making their OFC Champions League semis, solely single legged away games. 

Now they are trying to get a non-NZ team to the Tokyo Olympics by slotting the OFC Olympics qualifier dates outside of the normal pro club off seasons, or FIFA windows - so forcing the NZU23s to be severely weakened in PNG.

If NZ left OFC aka Australia - FIFA would have to consider disbanding it's weakest Confederation, and potentially see it swallowed up as part of Asia. At best reduce it's WC allocation back to 0.5 a spot when WC is expanded to 48 teams.

Still would AFC want NZ??

Seems the Middle Eastern/West Asia countries want Australia gone from the AFC. 

So they are highly unlikely to welcome NZ with open arms. 

Probably only if as above OFC was reduced back to 0.5 World Cup slots at future World Cups, and AFC was given an extra guaranteed World Cup slot, by admitting NZ.

Plus would there be extra costs (travelling etc) for various NZ mens & womens teams, if left OFC for AFC. NZF now exactly flush with cash.

To me the interesting comparison is international basketball, where FIBA have slotted Oceania teams into Asian qualifiers for World Cups & Olympics. On the back of that NZ Basketball seemed to have picked up some new sponsorship/commercial opportunities in Asia.

WeeNix
890
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960
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about 7 years

it's a problem with no solution others will like.

Best hope is probably split AFC into two; an east and a west, including NZ in east. and have OFC island nations as a sub confederation where they do prelim tournament to find 1 or two nations to join in for WC qualifying, similar to what concacaf do with the carribean

Starting XI
6.7K
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4.5K
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over 9 years

I read on the Effecting Change at NZF thread about a potential OFC Nations League being looked at?

Whilst a good idea, surely it must be worth the AFC and OFC looking at combining the Nations of both - Just for Nations League purposes of course... 

Have the weaker Pacific Island teams - Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga (teams that basically only play OFC & Pacific Games matches) in with the weakest Asian nations, the likes of Bhutan, Brunei, East Timor, Sri Lanka. Gives them exposure and essentially a step on the ladder in a Nations League concept, which I'm sure would be appreciated, and gives the smaller nations a chance to progress, even if they'd be some of the more obscure matchup's in International Football.

The rest would just have to be ranked, but keeping in mind the likes of Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia & the Philippines seem to be about evenly matched with the likes of the Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, Fiji & New Caledonia. Would be an ideal concept I guess, although I'd say New Zealand along with any OFC Nation would be asked to make their way to the top right from the back of the pack.

Failing our abandonment of the OFC, I'd like to think we'd become part of the AFC as some type of sub-group either in a WCQ sense or any AFC/OFC Nations League concept. 

Definitely be nice to haves, but I won't be holding my breath over any progress on this.   

Marquee
3.7K
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5.4K
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over 11 years

Can NZF challenge the timing of events with Fifa etc - say the association is unfairly targeting NZ due to its percieved strength?

Starting XI
550
·
2.4K
·
over 14 years

NZF have no money, they just wasted some on the Ferns v Japan game at Westpak and we all know where that money came from.

No one wants to play NZ or when they did NZF wont fund it. Moving into the AFC would send them broke.

Legend
11K
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21K
·
almost 9 years

ClubOranje wrote:

it's a problem with no solution others will like.

Best hope is probably split AFC into two; an east and a west, including NZ in east. and have OFC island nations as a sub confederation where they do prelim tournament to find 1 or two nations to join in for WC qualifying, similar to what concacaf do with the carribean

Plus Guyana and Suriname which are actually physically part of South America. 

Though socially and economically they are far aligned to the Caribbean.

Life and death
2.4K
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5.5K
·
almost 17 years

coochiee wrote:

To me the interesting comparison is international basketball, where FIBA have slotted Oceania teams into Asian qualifiers for World Cups & Olympics. On the back of that NZ Basketball seemed to have picked up some new sponsorship/commercial opportunities in Asia.

The basketball situation is not a good example. The money the national team gained from sponsorship purely subsidises the national team, it doesn’t filter down to grass roots.
Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

coochiee wrote:

To me the interesting comparison is international basketball, where FIBA have slotted Oceania teams into Asian qualifiers for World Cups & Olympics. On the back of that NZ Basketball seemed to have picked up some new sponsorship/commercial opportunities in Asia.

The basketball situation is not a good example. The money the national team gained from sponsorship purely subsidises the national team, it doesn’t filter down to grass roots.

Why should it filter down to grassroots? 

Grassroots football or basketball should pretty much fund itself. 100% amateur, with volunteer coaches, administrators etc. Main income being from players subs and local sponsorship. 

In what model, would the NZ men's national basketball team ever bring in large sums of cash to NZ Basketball?

But at least the Asian qualifying path now sees the senior men's team play regularly in NZ (yes often sans overseas pros), in meaningful games. So gives the sport a higher profile, plus young kids can see some of their heroes up close.

The only time the AWs bring in large sums of cash to NZ, is qualifying for the World Cup (2010 FIFA cash), or TV rights money from inter continental playoffs (2013 Mexico & far lesser 2017 Peru).

That cash has turned out to be important re funding the programmes of the various national teams. None more so I think than the AWs themselves. Didn't Huddo & co spend $6M plus or something during the last 4 year cycle trying to get to Russia.

So that then becomes another conundrum for NZF before considering any potential move to AFC. 

Is it too much of a financial risk, jumping in with Asia (if ever invited, a big if)? 

What if the AWs failed with WC qualification (so miss the FIFA windfall) through a AFC path - a 4 yearly windfall that would be pretty well guaranteed if stayed with OFC. 

But then if that windfall is just spent on preparing the AWs for OFC games & the odd friendly (highly likely to be overseas) - in preparation for the next WC - what's the difference with jumping into the AFC and playing regularly (home & away), if all those AFC games are paid for by the AFC? It's a cycle of cash spent predominantly on the AWs in either instance, just with 2nd scenario get AWs playing some big games at home.

Be curious to know who funds all the AFC qualification games. The AFC itself thorough some sort of over riding TV rights package, or if the individual countries have to self fund their programmes themselves, incl hosting away teams for home games. If option 2, not so great from a NZF perspective unless could score some tasty sponsorship deals through Asia - and who really knows how that would go. Fonterra AWs?

Starting XI
6.7K
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4.5K
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over 9 years

coochiee wrote:

...If option 2, not so great from a NZF perspective unless could score some tasty sponsorship deals through Asia - and who really knows how that would go. Fonterra AWs?

Starting XI
6.7K
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4.5K
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over 9 years

Ahh shark, wrong airline ;)

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

Sorry getting off topic.

WeeNix
760
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750
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over 9 years

NZ cant leave Oceania easily, in fact it will be incredibly difficult. Fist problem is Asia accepting us and they have already clearly indicated thats a no. Second problem is Oceania and Fifa agreeing to us leaving if Asia did a massive about turn and said yes. Oceania dont want us to go and Fifa dont like conflict.  Thinking we can leave Oceania is just a dream.

Legend
11K
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21K
·
almost 9 years

AlfStamp wrote:

NZ cant leave Oceania easily, in fact it will be incredibly difficult. Fist problem is Asia accepting us and they have already clearly indicated thats a no. Second problem is Oceania and Fifa agreeing to us leaving if Asia did a massive about turn and said yes. Oceania dont want us to go and Fifa dont like conflict.  Thinking we can leave Oceania is just a dream.

Not saying your wrong, but is there some clear evidence AFC don't want us?

Curious.

Again I don't think the Middle Eastern/West Asian bloc would like it at all, given some of their administrators clearly want Australia out.

But if NZ entering AFC saw OFC downgraded to 0.5 a WC spot, and AFC getting an extra 1.0 spot - that could be a lure to allow NZ entry into AFC.

Very slim possibility, but a possibility. A West/East Asia split (at least for the early stages of WC qualification), with OFC swallowed into East Asia, would appear to have a greater chance of happening.

The current setup is sharkhouse, so NZF should be looking at all options, no matter how how unlikely. 

FIFA don't like conflict, but Infantino has also stated he wants the minnow nations playing more games. Helps him get voted in. He'll try and push through whatever he thinks keeps him popular.

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

coochiee wrote:

Not saying your wrong, but is there some clear evidence AFC don't want us?

Curious.

You realise Oceania was set up solely because Asia didn't want us? 

Life and death
2.4K
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5.5K
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almost 17 years

I will just make the point that the grass roots is where all of your future elite and stars come from, presently most of these programmes are user pays in almost every NZ sport. Of course you should aspire to have your top teams generate enough income to help fund development at grass roots. One kid that takes up judo instead of football is one less opportunity to develop an All White.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

coochiee wrote:

Not saying your wrong, but is there some clear evidence AFC don't want us?

Curious.

You realise Oceania was set up solely because Asia didn't want us? 

No didn’t realise that. When was that?

Marquee
1.7K
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7.5K
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almost 17 years

coochiee wrote:

I'd much rather see 8-12 top quality AFC games (WC & Asian Cup qualifiers) played in NZ over a 4 year cycle (with most of the overseas stars coming back to play in NZ). A couple of those games are bound to have some knife edge tense drama, as AWs seek qualification. That's what the sport needs in NZ. The big overseas stars up close a few times per year, and big games in our time zone. Even if the AWs fail to qualify for World Cups.

Much better prospect, than 4-6 low quality home games against OFC minnows, over the same 4 years, supplanted by 2 almost guaranteed pool games at a World Cup played at 4am NZ time. Pools being reduced to 3 teams in a 48 team WC.

To me the biggest waste is having a striker in the world's most high profile league, who has scored over 20 goals in the last 2 EPL seasons and yet in that time he's played 20 mins on NZ soil. It's nuts really. A marketing disaster. He's probably unlikely to play in NZ, until mid-late 2020 at the earliest. Roughly 3 years after Peru November 2017!

100%

Starting XI
1.3K
·
2.7K
·
almost 9 years

coochiee wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Not saying your wrong, but is there some clear evidence AFC don't want us?

Curious.

You realise Oceania was set up solely because Asia didn't want us? 

No didn’t realise that. When was that?

a while ago (1964) - this from the History section on the OFC website.

HistoryFoundations

The idea of a confederation for the Pacific was first raised in 1964 when the football world was in Tokyo for the Olympic Games. Three gentlemen discussed the idea and they put in motion the formation of what was to become the OFC. Their names were Sir Stanley Rous, then president of FIFA, Jim Bayutti from the Australian Soccer Federation and Sid Guppy, chairman of the New Zealand Football Association.

The discussion came about after a decision by the Asian Football Confederation, which had only been formed ten years previously, not to accept either Australia or New Zealand for membership. It was this that laid the groundwork and gave the impetus for those crucial discussions in Tokyo.

Legend
6.8K
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14K
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over 16 years

aitkenmike wrote:

coochiee wrote:

I'd much rather see 8-12 top quality AFC games (WC & Asian Cup qualifiers) played in NZ over a 4 year cycle (with most of the overseas stars coming back to play in NZ). A couple of those games are bound to have some knife edge tense drama, as AWs seek qualification. That's what the sport needs in NZ. The big overseas stars up close a few times per year, and big games in our time zone. Even if the AWs fail to qualify for World Cups.

Much better prospect, than 4-6 low quality home games against OFC minnows, over the same 4 years, supplanted by 2 almost guaranteed pool games at a World Cup played at 4am NZ time. Pools being reduced to 3 teams in a 48 team WC.

To me the biggest waste is having a striker in the world's most high profile league, who has scored over 20 goals in the last 2 EPL seasons and yet in that time he's played 20 mins on NZ soil. It's nuts really. A marketing disaster. He's probably unlikely to play in NZ, until mid-late 2020 at the earliest. Roughly 3 years after Peru November 2017!

100%

We could instead have a slap-a-NZFootball-official booth for $99 a pop during the FIFA windows to try and fundraise for a game? (Apologies to those doing sterling work)

Starting XI
6.7K
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4.5K
·
over 9 years

Was just about to post the link to that JourneyFan, beat me to it. 

Doesn't go into great depth and I've done a bit of digging around and reading into it, and all I could really find was that the AFC did not want us - no real reasons given, can only suspect they didn't want to be propping up and financing a significantly weaker region when they've got their own backyard to worry about. Back then would also say it is because the AFC from West to East is a huge geographical region, and then extending that further east to the likes of NZ, Fiji etc may have been a step too far. Today is a far different story, easily able to connect to regions both logistically and through technological advances, and having been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in the Pacific Islands there is already a strong link to the likes of China, Japan, Korea already, and to a lesser extent the likes of the Philippines & Indonesia.

Not entirely inconceivable that in the future (hopefully near...) an East/West split in Asia would allow East Asia to push further east and become an East Asia Pacific Confederation, allowing West Asia to be left to themselves. Even if that did happen it would still be a big step up for NZF & OFC with a pathway to more matches and a stronger WCQ program with a higher quality fixture list. Again I won't hold my breath on this one, but i'd like know if NZF has any ambition for this to happen? 

It's good to see an OFC Nations League possibly in the pipeline but surely we have to look at a bigger picture - Looking West to be part of the East (Asia/Pacific).

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

coochiee wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Not saying your wrong, but is there some clear evidence AFC don't want us?

Curious.

You realise Oceania was set up solely because Asia didn't want us? 

No didn’t realise that. When was that?

a while ago (1964) - this from the History section on the OFC website.

History Foundations

The idea of a confederation for the Pacific was first raised in 1964 when the football world was in Tokyo for the Olympic Games. Three gentlemen discussed the idea and they put in motion the formation of what was to become the OFC. Their names were Sir Stanley Rous, then president of FIFA, Jim Bayutti from the Australian Soccer Federation and Sid Guppy, chairman of the New Zealand Football Association.

The discussion came about after a decision by the Asian Football Confederation, which had only been formed ten years previously, not to accept either Australia or New Zealand for membership. It was this that laid the groundwork and gave the impetus for those crucial discussions in Tokyo.

Bit of an understatement. 

Pity all the administrators from that era are dead! Otherwise we could ask them why.

Could have been pure football reasons, or could have been political stuff like Australia/NZ supporting Israel or something.

In the present day, are AFC likely to invite NZF in? Unlikely.

Does NZF even want that to happen, esp if puts at risk the future FIFA gravy train of WC qualification?  Possibly not.

FIFA agreeing to transfer a WC spot (leaving OFC with 0.5 spot in an expanded 48 team WC) to AFC from OFC, along with NZ would be a carrot to the AFC. 

That's been a major part of West Asia's discontent with having the Socceroos being an Asian representative at the last 3 World Cups.  Basically cost Bahrain & Jordan (5th in AFC 2009 & 2013) plus Syria (effectively 6th in AFC 2017) chances of being at World Cups.

WSW's AFC Champions League win also seemed to seriously fudge off the Middle Eastern countries. Lots of bad blood out of that.

Also Socceroos winning 2015 Asian Cup, didn't win Australia any friends in their Confederation.

At least AWs wouldn't be seen as a similar level threat re winning Asian Cups, and 'stealing' WC spots off a 'true' Asian side.

Marquee
3.7K
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5.4K
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over 11 years

Asia didn't want us in 64 means nothing, because at that time, Aussie were in Oceania as well, which is not the case today.

Goal post change over time - I believe we could get out if we wanted, whether by being accepted by Asia, or by forcing Fifa to act by trying to leave Oceania.

Let's leave Oceania and form our own confederation : )

Marquee
6.9K
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9.3K
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over 13 years

Parts of Asia doesn't want Australia now.

If they take us then realistically they have to take most of the ofc because the ofc will no longer be viable.

However there was a bit of noise a while back from fifa about us joining CONMEBOL. I remember reading an article a few years ago about how the offer was on the table but NZF turned it down.

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

I can't find the document atm, but I have (or have seen) something in the past written by Charlie Dempsey saying effectively that it was a political move by Asia as they saw NZ & Australia too closely aligned to England and were worried the influence they would have if they let us joined.

While that was 1964, Asia's thinking may have changed but essentially why would they want NZ? - they took Aussie because the potential market is huge. but even now they don't all seem that keen on them

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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over 16 years

Ryan wrote:
 

However there was a bit of noise a while back from fifa about us joining CONMEBOL. I remember reading an article a few years ago about how the offer was on the table but NZF turned it down.

If I remember correctly, that was just someone taking the piss. There was a random Spanish-language article that alleged that this was proposed/endorsed by Blatter, but that was pretty much the only source for it. I've also done a quick google, and see that Andy Martin shot it down pretty much as soon as the rumour appeared, saying he had absolutely no idea about it at all: link here

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