Effecting Change at NZF

ForteanTimes
Marquee
FilledFilledFilledFilledEmpty
For post ezgif com gif maker 1
terminator_x wrote:
reg22 wrote:

i may have misread what terminator was saying

i though terminator was alluding to us deserving poor governance because of our appathy


No mis-reading. That's exactly what I'm saying.


And I'm in no way having a crack at people's right to an opinion. What I am saying is that hardly anyone who has posted any criticism of NZF on this forum recently will actually do a single practical thing about changing the situation (and sorry, but giving $10 to the U17s and writing "NZF are a disgrace" in the comments doesn't cut it for me).


Let me ask this:

Is anybody even aware of which NZF Board members are elected?

Does anybody know which ones are up for re-election at the next NZF Congress?

Does anyone have any idea who their Federation intends to a) nominate b) vote for, at the next Congress? (Or even at the last Congress?)

Has anybody ever bothered to read the NZF rules to find out more about how the process works and how to influence it?


If we can't answer simple questions like this then yes, we get the governance we deserve.




You make a valid point. With the latest airport media stunt going tits up change can't come quickly enough. So how do we do it?

tonya
U Turning
FilledFilledEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post no u turn


Think that media snub today, and exposed on TV tonight,  just reinforces what a shambles NZF is. So embarrassing given national football here only gets mass coverage once every 4 years. And on the eve of the AB's biggest game of the year tonight. We're just a laughing stock. Plus it'll probably put some ticketholders off turning up Wednesday night.

Boro4eva
Marquee
FilledFilledFilledFilledEmpty
For post default

To effect change as noted earlier one needs to understand how the system works....then you have to realise that angsted individuals on here will not actually effect change. Clubs and elected representatives may be able to...see how hard it is for change in FIFA!   It is better to protest in some visible way..banners, chants boycott of buying tickets.  But to be clear it is not targeted at the players who if chosen will clearly do their best on the day.

Today showed a lack of respect to the fans..who rightly wanted some answers and preferably a scapegoat or sacrificial lamb ..as an aside why are poor domestic animals thought of like that. 

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

charliegeorge11
Trialist
FilledEmptyEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post default

This is my first post.  I would like to comment on the debacle at Wellington Airport today, but am unable to.  Is New Zealand Football now in charge of this website and stopping comment?  Are we being muzzled by NZ Football's media guru Paul Gunn?

What a disgrace. NZ Football looks like amateurs in everything it does. Time for the egos to go and best practice is followed. Put aside 15 minutes at the airport for the coach, captain and the most positive player (Rory Fallon) then head to the hotel and kick back. Instead they've embarrassed the game, been heavy handed with media and told everyone there will be media tomorrow. Then backtracked and had to organise media at the hotel once they realised how unprofessional they had been.

And do you know what, the players wouldn't have wanted this. They are the professionals, let down by an amateur management team. This decision would have been made by media hater Brian Turner. Great player but out of his depth in his role as manager. Real jobs for the boys as he is Ricki's best friend. Think about best practice guys and what is good for the game not your ego. 


Boro4eva
Marquee
FilledFilledFilledFilledEmpty
For post default

The number under your name would tend to suggest otherwise.

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

ForteanTimes
Marquee
FilledFilledFilledFilledEmpty
For post ezgif com gif maker 1

This is my first post.  I would like to comment on the debacle at Wellington Airport today, but am unable to.  Is New Zealand Football now in charge of this website and stopping comment?  Are we being muzzled by NZ Football's media guru Paul Gunn?

What a disgrace. NZ Football looks like amateurs in everything it does. Time for the egos to go and best practice is followed. Put aside 15 minutes at the airport for the coach, captain and the most positive player (Rory Fallon) then head to the hotel and kick back. Instead they've embarrassed the game, been heavy handed with media and told everyone there will be media tomorrow. Then backtracked and had to organise media at the hotel once they realised how unprofessional they had been.

And do you know what, the players wouldn't have wanted this. They are the professionals, let down by an amateur management team. This decision would have been made by media hater Brian Turner. Great player but out of his depth in his role as manager. Real jobs for the boys as he is Ricki's best friend. Think about best practice guys and what is good for the game not your ego. 




Yeah I think a few of us were saddened by the way today was handled. You may want to read this thread from the beginning. My understanding about effecting change is to get more active within the various NZ federations. That and some non-player focused protest at matches.
Edited by ForteanTimes November 16, 2013 21:10

U037
Phoenix Academy
FilledFilledEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post liawsw

Following Terminator's suggestion I had a look at the NZF rules.  For those that can't be arsed reading it, here are some edited highlights (and to those in the know, please correct me if I'm wrong):

- there are 3 'Part A' board members, one of whom is eligible to be voted in as Chairperson by the board itself.

- the Part A board members are elected by the 7 federations for a 4-year term (I assume each fed gets one vote).

- the board ultimately consists of the 3 Part A members, 7 Part B members, and up to 2 additional co-opted members.

- the Part B members themselves are selected by a three-person Board Appointments Panel, one of whom is the NZF president, with the others being the Chairman of Sport NZ (currently rugby/cricket man, Paul Collins), and a nominee of the Federation Chairs.

- the co-opted members can be brought in by the board at their discretion to provide expertise for a 1-year term, and have full voting rights. What are the chances Ricki could land one of these spots in the near future?

- the current Chairman, Frank van Hattum, was up for re-election as a board member at the annual congress in 2011, which means his 4-year term will end in 2015.

The bottom line is that, as Boro4eva said, angsting on the forums will not achieve anything. And as ForteanTimes suggested, perhaps the best bet is to get in the ear of your fed reps.

Edit1: Forgot to mention, the Part B members are also elected for 4-year term.

Edit2: I see I've effectively repeated info copied and pasted (from the NZF website) onto page 1 of this thread by Terminator. My apologies, but in my defence I am making an effort to become more informed.

Edited by U037 November 17, 2013 00:11
reg22
Starting XI
FilledFilledFilledEmptyEmpty
For post default

re: the media blackout. we've fallen a long way from the days when graeme seatter used to post on these forums

brettdale55
Phoenix Academy
FilledFilledEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post default

It would seem Herbert is gone, but Van hattum and the board are staying.

tonya
U Turning
FilledFilledEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post no u turn
brettdale55 wrote:

It would seem Herbert is gone, but Van hattum and the board are staying.

Yes they will advertise Herbert's job and Dad's Army (NZF) will stay intact until NZ Sport or some agency puts the acid on them when funding issues are raised.

Lonegunmen
Legend
FilledFilledFilledFilledFilled
For post reacher

For my two cents worth, after the last wc in sa, ricki did say that the mistakes from 1982 would not be allowed to happen again. Ie wasted money spent in the wrong places, spent on development etc etc. Now we see exactly the same mistakes being made. I don,t blame ricki soley for this. Fre de Wanker and Frank van freeloader also need to shoulder a lot of the responsibility. Maybe not so much Fred de Wanker as he hasn,t been in the job too long. 

But the the mistakes have been made. Ricki is to blame for the stupid 1-5-4-1 formation when if his homework was done, Mexico was there for the taking. In the second half we looked a lot better and they looked nervous when defending. Not that we offered a lot. I think we could have gotten away with a 2-0 defeat but we let in some extremely soft goals. However, Moss was my MOTM, he pulled off some blinder saves. I may add to this as I think more about it.

172 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games Attendee   

Jeff Vader
Cock
FilledFilledFilledFilledFilled
For post capture1

I'm not a Fred fan but everything was well in place before he arrived on the scene which as you said, was recently. I don't think he gets any blame for mistakes made after Spain 82 being repeated post WC2010. I'm not enamoured with his plans to charge kids or the shit build up we have had the last 18 months but for once, I think its hard to lump those repeated mistakes on him.

I'd also like to get your opinion on what these repeated mistakes are? We implemented what appeared to be a successful WOF plan that will take years to see fruition but what I read and hear is that its very good. We also have a successful womens program that doesn't look to have skipped a beat with Herdman departing. Please share what these are.

Grumpy old bastard alert

newbyone
Phoenix Academy
FilledFilledEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post penguins

This is my first post.  I would like to comment on the debacle at Wellington Airport today, but am unable to.  Is New Zealand Football now in charge of this website and stopping comment?  Are we being muzzled by NZ Football's media guru Paul Gunn?

What a disgrace. NZ Football looks like amateurs in everything it does. Time for the egos to go and best practice is followed. Put aside 15 minutes at the airport for the coach, captain and the most positive player (Rory Fallon) then head to the hotel and kick back. Instead they've embarrassed the game, been heavy handed with media and told everyone there will be media tomorrow. Then backtracked and had to organise media at the hotel once they realised how unprofessional they had been.

And do you know what, the players wouldn't have wanted this. They are the professionals, let down by an amateur management team. This decision would have been made by media hater Brian Turner. Great player but out of his depth in his role as manager. Real jobs for the boys as he is Ricki's best friend. Think about best practice guys and what is good for the game not your ego. 



charliegeorge11, why is your post exactly the same as Marylou66? It is word for word exactly the same?
Junior82
Legend
FilledFilledFilledFilledFilled
For post benny

tears in the time-space continuum. Parallel worlds. Weeping angels.

cg11=ml66.

Freaky.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

U037
Phoenix Academy
FilledFilledEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post liawsw

Jeff Vader wrote:

I'm not a Fred fan but everything was well in place before he arrived on the scene which as you said, was recently. I don't think he gets any blame for mistakes made after Spain 82 being repeated post WC2010. I'm not enamoured with his plans to charge kids or the shit build up we have had the last 18 months but for once, I think its hard to lump those repeated mistakes on him.

I'd also like to get your opinion on what these repeated mistakes are? We implemented what appeared to be a successful WOF plan that will take years to see fruition but what I read and hear is that its very good. We also have a successful womens program that doesn't look to have skipped a beat with Herdman departing. Please share what these are.

I'll have a crack, but only in a very general terms (I'll leave the specifics to the experts).

Perhaps there's a sense that NZF have failed to capitalise, once again, following an outstanding performance by the (mens) national team. Whatever credibility New Zealand football and the All Whites had after 2010, seems to have evaporated, just as it did after 1982.

ForteanTimes
Marquee
FilledFilledFilledFilledEmpty
For post ezgif com gif maker 1
Junior82 wrote:

tears in the time-space continuum. Parallel worlds. Weeping angels.

cg11=ml66.

Freaky.



What I like is having spilled their ire they have now ridden off into the sunset, perhaps never to return...

Jeff Vader
Cock
FilledFilledFilledFilledFilled
For post capture1
U037 wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

I'm not a Fred fan but everything was well in place before he arrived on the scene which as you said, was recently. I don't think he gets any blame for mistakes made after Spain 82 being repeated post WC2010. I'm not enamoured with his plans to charge kids or the shit build up we have had the last 18 months but for once, I think its hard to lump those repeated mistakes on him.

I'd also like to get your opinion on what these repeated mistakes are? We implemented what appeared to be a successful WOF plan that will take years to see fruition but what I read and hear is that its very good. We also have a successful womens program that doesn't look to have skipped a beat with Herdman departing. Please share what these are.

I'll have a crack, but only in a very general terms (I'll leave the specifics to the experts).

Perhaps there's a sense that NZF have failed to capitalise, once again, following an outstanding performance by the (mens) national team. Whatever credibility New Zealand football and the All Whites had after 2010, seems to have evaporated, just as it did after 1982.

In some respects, I am not sure it is a 'repeated mistakes' issue vs 'typical Kiwi mentality' syndrome.

If we are objective, we are only a country that sing when we are winning. Look recently at everyone that got on board the Americas Cup drama. Now 2 months later, now one really gives a shit. They did a poll a couple of days after the last race and the majority of them were 'the government should fund them to keep them going'. a month later and the response was more 'people could care less'

2002 Tall Blacks, 2008 League team.... the list goes on so should we really be surprised that after the 2010 WC that people switched off from us? I don't think we should. Would we really give two shits about rowing if we were not any good at it? Its a minority sport that we do bloody well at. Because of that, we bandwagon. Val Adams, shotput, minority sport.... the list goes on.

Where NZF get a fail (and this is my opinion from the outside looking in so someone correct me if I am off base) is that they should have done a better job of keeping the AWs in front of the public after 2010 and I don't think they did. Yes we had a couple of games here but as just one idea why were NZF not getting the likes of Ryan, Winston, Marco - faces that reasonably, you should be able to put names to and the 'superstars' of the AWs, out here over our winter, their offseason and get them around the country with kids and parents doing clinics. It only needed 2 weeks but profile it. Come train with EPL stars Ryan Nelsen and Winston Reid. Kids love that shit and parents by extension, get into it as well. While its not national profile and the front page of SkyWatch, it does keep people in the game with a buy in or a hook. We are restricted by finances but there are ways of going about things. Did they go to ASB and say 'hey, you give us a boat load of cash, how about Ryan or Winston to be in one of your ASB ads' so that every bloody ad break, we see one of their smiling mugs on TV. Just little things that keep the profile there. Instead we get the bad press - ONC failure, charging kids to play, while Phoenix related the performance of them and the press that generated, the warm up to the Mexico game.

 

Who is responsible for that? Well again, like I said above, you can't lump that on Fred and its probably really a CEO head that gets lumped on. Remind me how good Grant McNumpty was again.....

Grumpy old bastard alert

ThreeFourThree
Phoenix Academy
FilledFilledEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post pitch
Jeff Vader wrote:
U037 wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

I'm not a Fred fan but everything was well in place before he arrived on the scene which as you said, was recently. I don't think he gets any blame for mistakes made after Spain 82 being repeated post WC2010. I'm not enamoured with his plans to charge kids or the shit build up we have had the last 18 months but for once, I think its hard to lump those repeated mistakes on him.

I'd also like to get your opinion on what these repeated mistakes are? We implemented what appeared to be a successful WOF plan that will take years to see fruition but what I read and hear is that its very good. We also have a successful womens program that doesn't look to have skipped a beat with Herdman departing. Please share what these are.

I'll have a crack, but only in a very general terms (I'll leave the specifics to the experts).

Perhaps there's a sense that NZF have failed to capitalise, once again, following an outstanding performance by the (mens) national team. Whatever credibility New Zealand football and the All Whites had after 2010, seems to have evaporated, just as it did after 1982.

In some respects, I am not sure it is a 'repeated mistakes' issue vs 'typical Kiwi mentality' syndrome.

If we are objective, we are only a country that sing when we are winning. Look recently at everyone that got on board the Americas Cup drama. Now 2 months later, now one really gives a shit. They did a poll a couple of days after the last race and the majority of them were 'the government should fund them to keep them going'. a month later and the response was more 'people could care less'

2002 Tall Blacks, 2008 League team.... the list goes on so should we really be surprised that after the 2010 WC that people switched off from us? I don't think we should. Would we really give two shits about rowing if we were not any good at it? Its a minority sport that we do bloody well at. Because of that, we bandwagon. Val Adams, shotput, minority sport.... the list goes on.

Where NZF get a fail (and this is my opinion from the outside looking in so someone correct me if I am off base) is that they should have done a better job of keeping the AWs in front of the public after 2010 and I don't think they did. Yes we had a couple of games here but as just one idea why were NZF not getting the likes of Ryan, Winston, Marco - faces that reasonably, you should be able to put names to and the 'superstars' of the AWs, out here over our winter, their offseason and get them around the country with kids and parents doing clinics. It only needed 2 weeks but profile it. Come train with EPL stars Ryan Nelsen and Winston Reid. Kids love that shit and parents by extension, get into it as well. While its not national profile and the front page of SkyWatch, it does keep people in the game with a buy in or a hook. We are restricted by finances but there are ways of going about things. Did they go to ASB and say 'hey, you give us a boat load of cash, how about Ryan or Winston to be in one of your ASB ads' so that every bloody ad break, we see one of their smiling mugs on TV. Just little things that keep the profile there. Instead we get the bad press - ONC failure, charging kids to play, while Phoenix related the performance of them and the press that generated, the warm up to the Mexico game.

 

Who is responsible for that? Well again, like I said above, you can't lump that on Fred and its probably really a CEO head that gets lumped on. Remind me how good Grant McNumpty was again.....

 

I tend to agree, and let's face it, NZF are pretty quick to take a portion of their fees off every single registered junior player in NZ and most of those kids get absolutely f*** all back from NZF for their contribution.

terminator_x
Still Believin'
FilledFilledFilledFilledEmpty
For post picture 47

I tend to agree, and let's face it, NZF are pretty quick to take a portion of their fees off every single registered junior player in NZ and most of those kids get absolutely f*** all back from NZF for their contribution.


I don't really agree with that ThreeFourThree.
The NZF component of junior fees is approx. $5 - $15 depending on the age of the kid. I reckon that represents pretty good value, especially with the Whole of Football plan now in place.
Senior fees are higher of course but still only in the $40 region per season.
The bottom line here is that affiliation fees only contribute about $1.5m to NZF's total revenue of around $9-10m per annum. It's fuck all really, especially when you consider the type of sums being talked about to hire a new CE ($350k min) or stage an All Whites game at home (the Jamaica game apparently cost $500k).
There are so many things that NZF members expect NZF to do, but we don’t actually contribute very much to that. Another example of NZ football fans having champagne taste on a beer budget.


ThreeFourThree
Phoenix Academy
FilledFilledEmptyEmptyEmpty
For post pitch
terminator_x wrote:

I tend to agree, and let's face it, NZF are pretty quick to take a portion of their fees off every single registered junior player in NZ and most of those kids get absolutely f*** all back from NZF for their contribution.


I don't really agree with that ThreeFourThree.

The NZF component of junior fees is approx. $5 - $15 depending on the age of the kid. I reckon that represents pretty good value, especially with the Whole of Football plan now in place.

Senior fees are higher of course but still only in the $40 region per season.

The bottom line here is that affiliation fees only contribute about $1.5m to NZF's total revenue of around $9-10m per annum. It's fuck all really, especially when you consider the type of sums being talked about to hire a new CE ($350k min) or stage an All Whites game at home (the Jamaica game apparently cost $500k).

There are so many things that NZF members expect NZF to do, but we don’t actually contribute very much to that. Another example of NZ football fans having champagne taste on a beer budget.

Your statement is a bit misleading - so let's review some of the components of the WoF Plan...

 

FTC (Federation Talent Centres) - User Pays

NTC (National Talent Centres) - User Pays

Referee Development - User pays

Coaching Tickets - User Pays

 

I can't speak for what NZF have done for midget football in the past 2 years (before that the sum total was absolutely zero directly unless you count the glossy coaching manual  or the Player of the Day certificates - which were likely entirely funded by sponsor money anyway) but based on the fact that a number of clubs were effectively running development programs already along the lines of WoF I suspect NZF have done very little for the fees in some cases. According to their own blurb though NZF talk about WoF funding coming from a combination of SPARC, community funding and commercial sponsors.

I understand what you are saying in regards to costs, but NZF really are their own worst enemies most of the time - implementing some of JVs suggestions would go a long way to boosting NZF profile amongst (at least) the junior footballing public and I'm sure that there are numerous other ways to give back to the community at little cost apart from time.

 

Apologies that this sounds like a total rant but find myself all too often asking - 'what were they even thinking ?' in relation to NZF these days and for every piece of good work they do, they then seem to follow it up with some piece of mind-bending craziness.

And to be honest it's the clubs that are putting in all the hard work and developing the base skills in these young players - NZF doesn't even see them for the first time until they are 11.

Rant over... :)

 

Edited by ThreeFourThree November 18, 2013 12:23

Post New Reply

Please Login or Create an account to post a reply.