Effecting Change at NZF

Blew.2
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Have NZF finalised and released the last review (Handa Premiership) or is it still a work in progress?

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el grapadura
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They have to review the review first.

Lonegunmen
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Hay to do the review and give himself an A+ mark.

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Ollie
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For an organisation to be successful and remain competitive it needs to be in touch with its stakeholders which it services as well as listening to its employees/work force. If 95% of feedback from stakeholders is passionately negative towards what is happening and you are failing to acknowledge employee concerns, you have to look at yourself, the job you are doing and consider if you are out of touch and out of your depth.

Is this review going to include stakeholders? if so I propose a question:

“Are you confident in the current leadership and the long term direction where NZF is heading?”

Lonegunmen
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I note, they are, from yesterday only paying themselves 80% of their normal wages. I'd love to know what those are and what perks are involved. 

One thing that can be guaranteed. Hay will not look bad and neither will Pragnall. Same old, same old. These old boys networks have been in action since before 1982. Like the Mason's and the Knights Templar, they just won't go away but manage to hang on. England has the Pink Gin Swillers Club.

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Lonegunmen
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el grapadura wrote:

They have to review the review first.

After forming a committee to oversee it at the Chateau over a weekend in the middle of Winter ;) 

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Feverish
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Lonegunmen wrote:

I note, they are, from yesterday only paying themselves 80% of their normal wages. I'd love to know what those are and what perks are involved. 

One thing that can be guaranteed. Hay will not look bad and neither will Pragnall. Same old, same old. These old boys networks have been in action since before 1982. Like the Mason's and the Knights Templar, they just won't go away but manage to hang on. England has the Pink Gin Swillers Club.

do you know anything about Pragnall or just talking shark?

Founder

Blew.2
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As Andrew Vormen reminded me NZF staff are working 4 day weeks for 80% pay

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Global Game
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Blew.2 wrote:

As Andrew Vormen reminded me NZF staff are working 4 day weeks for 80% pay

OK, I'll bite. Is this a joke or legit?

Kotahitanga. We are one.

Doloras
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Lonegunmen wrote:

Like the Mason's and the Knights Templar, they just won't go away but manage to hang on

So is it cult wars? Hay is a Mason but Buckingham is a Templar? Meanwhile, Heraf was kicked out because he was an infiltrator for the Priory of Sion.

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This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

Lonegunmen
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Feverish wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:

I note, they are, from yesterday only paying themselves 80% of their normal wages. I'd love to know what those are and what perks are involved. 

One thing that can be guaranteed. Hay will not look bad and neither will Pragnall. Same old, same old. These old boys networks have been in action since before 1982. Like the Mason's and the Knights Templar, they just won't go away but manage to hang on. England has the Pink Gin Swillers Club.

do you know anything about Pragnall or just talking shark?

You know it and everyone else does too, CEO's never take the can for anything. They will not stand up and say "I made a mistake". It is not the done thing. Classic example: Sepp Blatter.

Other than that I'm talk Shark.

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Blew.2
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Chris James @Chris26James HJK 06' Coach Flag of Finland | New Zealand All White Flag of New Zealand | Klubi 04 | JCI Alumnus

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Blew.2
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Khalil Media
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When I heard Des was leaving I was really annoyed.  Watching that clip, I now want to cry - how on earth can our national body not be doing everything in its power to keep a leader of that calibre involved with our international teams?  criminal...

newzealandpower
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Well spoken Chris James

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Blew.2
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OPINION: New Zealand Football has been perceived warily for most of its recent past by large chunks of the community it serves. And when you look at the lack of respect the governing body showed to Des Buckingham as he was shuffled out the door at the end of April, it’s easy to understand why. The decision to move on from Buckingham and have All Whites coach Danny Hay take the OlyWhites at the rescheduled Tokyo Olympics in 2021 was understandable in the circumstances Covid-19 has thrust upon us, though obviously disappointing for those left out of a job. What was inexcusable was how it was executed and presented to the playing group and the public by NZ Football, from chief executive Andrew Pragnell on down. Once those in charge decided what they were going to do — which was the moment the Olympics were postponed to 2021, or so Pragnell says — they had a duty to ensure it was handled with as much grace as possible. Ambition was certainly on display here. When Pragnell talks about the “strategic opportunity” his organisation now has, he means having the All Whites' 2022 World Cup qualifiers double as buildup for the Olympics and having the Olympics double as preparation for the intercontinental playoff that looms as the final step on the road to that World Cup in Qatar. Those synergies should boost their chances of qualifying and bringing home a much-needed financial windfall. Inclusivity wasn’t a major factor, but there was no collaboration. It is understood Buckingham was eager and willing to see what he could do in order to stay on, but that went nowhere. It is also understood his ultimate fate was not made crystal clear as quickly as Pragnell has suggested. Buckingham didn't address the events of the past few weeks in his parting statement and isn't giving interviews. For someone who went to great lengths to top up NZ Football’s meagre national age-group team budgets from his own pockets; who flew back early from holiday when former coach Fritz Schmid was on his way out last June; then led the under-23s to a gold medal at the Pacific Games, where they had to overcome inhospitable conditions, on field and off, that would have made many coaches baulk, that was a final touch of class. This has certainly sucked the enjoyment out of football for some — Buckingham and his staff; those in the playing group that had grown fond of them (and were perhaps behind the unsigned letter, said to have the support of 24 players, that was delivered to NZ Football asking for them to be retained); and those in the wider football community who enjoyed watching what they had produced. Ultimately, that all contributes to a lack of respect. There was little shown during the five weeks between the postponement of the Olympics and the announcement of Buckingham’s exit on April 30 and next-to-none shown when it came to the manner of the announcement itself. NZ Football framed its messaging around what was happening (Hay taking charge of the team) rather than what wasn’t (Buckingham staying in charge despite the postponement of the Olympics), which is a typical approach, but one that grates. In its announcement, there was no mention of what Buckingham and co had achieved in their time with the organisation, just an unattributed thank you, and a rote statement of empathy from Pragnell. More generous efforts came from Pragnell — and Hay — when they spoke the following day, but by then the tone had been set. The playing pool was informed ahead of the public announcement in a letter that spent more time on the history of the Olympics than Buckingham and what he'd built. There was no message from the departing coach included, though he is believed to have been in touch with players since. He will have no doubt taken an interest in how the decision might have affected them and sought to reassure them, something the letter made no attempt at. So where does this leave NZ Football, at a time when Covid-19 means its leadership is needed more than ever? On notice, one would hope, that it needs to do better when it comes to carrying out the decisions it makes and communicating them, both to those affected directly and those who are merely interested because they have skin in the game. This is not a new problem, by any stretch, but it was one that was supposed to have left when Andy Martin did in 2018. Pragnell is coming towards the end of his first year in charge on a permanent basis, and has spent most of that year putting his management structure and team in place, so it's still early days, to an extent, but the bumbling effort here, combined with the impact of Covid-19, means the honeymoon is over. Old perceptions die hard and NZ Football still has work to do to change them. There remains a question mark over Football Ferns coach Tom Sermanni, whose contract is up at the end of August, like Buckingham's was. It is expected NZ Football will wait for the decision on hosting rights for the 2023 Women’s World Cup before making any decisions there and Sermanni is believed to be fine with that. Like Buckingham, he has been a popular figure during his time in the role, so there will be plenty of interest in the outcome. Then comes the Football in New Zealand Review. If handled correctly, it is a chance for the game to address the challenges it faces, at a time when Covid-19 is both accelerating the need for change and making some of those who might have been resistant to it more amiable. It is a genuine opportunity to arrive at a consensus on those topics that are regularly the subject of debate, whether over a beer in the clubrooms or in various online forums, including whose job it is to develop players, what our national men's and women's leagues should look like, where limited financial resources available would best be spent, and many more. For that to happen, the review will have to be conducted in a way that engages with those at the grassroots — the people who are keeping clubs alive and who are out there putting the work in from week to week — and treats them and their views with respect. What’s worrying now is that those members of the football community have been given a good reason to look at the governing body, scratch their collective heads, and wonder what it's done to deserve any lately.

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Sancho
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Big lessons to learn here. We can see the values they want the teams to show but I would like to know what values drive our governing body to serve our game? 

The actions that Des has taken during his time has revealed some very good values that have been under NZF noses since forever as they are based from Tikanga Maori principles. NZF should be acting as guardians for our game which without our people there is no game. Pretty shameful stuff really. I know money is tight in our game but it shouldn't mean that NZF staff should take disrespectful actions towards the people that have served the game, that is not what Kaitiaki should be doing.

Royz
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Des was a awful Nix coach so that is why he didnt get the senior team gig, As for the U20s and U23s well the talented players in there made him look better hen what he really was. That talent will also make Hay look good too as a coach.

One thing for sure is that Des will go on to bigger and better things.  

Ollie
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Royz wrote:

Des was a awful Nix coach so that is why he didnt get the senior team gig, As for the U20s and U23s well the talented players in there made him look better hen what he really was. That talent will also make Hay look good too as a coach.

One thing for sure is that Des will go on to bigger and better things.  


Wow these are some big statements, but maybe we look at some facts:

1. Des and Greenie inherited a team that Ernie was unable to squeeze any blood out of. No players came in during this time and he also  had to contend with All Whites games and the subsequent loss of those players while the league continued. Des also gave the likes of Sarpreet their A-League debuts.

If I remember rightly the points that they gained during that time would have had them in a playoff spot.

For whatever reason Morrison decided not to go with Des and instead go for a supposed name with great experience in Dario. I think we were all scratching our heads when he was announced and we all know how that ended up.

2. throughout the 20s and 23’s Des did not have at his disposal a consistent playing group, but what did stay consistent was the playing style and philosophy and the results and ongoing success. 49 players used and some people talk that he had the West’s boys so it made it easy. Only Eli, Callum and Nando played any real part and they were only involved in the Games in Poland. They were unavailable for all other games. There has been no consistency of player availability throughout the u19Quals/u20 WC, Pacific Games, Aussie internationals or u23 Quals so nothing was ever consistent hence 49 players. The fact that they continued to play the same way but with different personal and not resort to giving up possession, defending deep and kicking it long (traditional view of NZ teams) was testament to his tactical ability, player development and man management.

The Pacific Games showed how good a coach he is, winning a competition in the Islands against full national sides (a couple of teams the All Whites had struggled to beat 2 years earlier in the Nations Cup) with no preparation and a team with an average age of U20 (with only 2 players from the WC who were both reserves). If I remember rightly there were 10 debutants (out of a squad of 19. All other teams had 23) who in the past had been overlooked at both U17 and U20 levels. He was forced to select players who weren’t even starting for their Northern League teams. So that totally debunks you saying he had the most talented players at his disposal. 

3. the one thing I do agree 100% with you on is he will go on to bigger and better things 

Enough said
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Great response and well written!

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