Effecting Change at NZF

Smithy
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james dean wrote:

Assuming that Gareth's main beef is the lack of connection between the Phoenix and NZF, it's an interesting question to what extent football in NZ would be better served by closer alignment between the two organisations - I'm genuinely quite torn.

 

From my discussion with him, that's an incorrect assumption. He just thinks the whole place is f*cked at the minute and that it needs a tune up. It's that simple.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

FU BLU
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Hes not wrong , even with some deadwood gone I think the rots still in there ...be interesting to hear from various board members ..." What plans / dreams do they have ? "


Or are they just time serving rubber-stamps for some one else's vision ?

Edited by FU BLU January 28, 2014 10:41
Jeff Vader
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Chris Kemp appears to be a huge upgrade on Glyn Taylor but that is not difficult.

Grumpy old bastard alert

terminator_x
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I'm totally cool with talking about how NZF and the Phoenix could be better aligned, and how NZF can do a much better job with the All Whites etc etc. In fact, I welcome the amount of airtime these important issues are currently getting.

But one of the very first questions Gareth (or anybody else) should have to answer before getting anywhere near the Board is "what is your plan for grassroots football and delivering to the 100k+ NZF members who play, coach, ref, administrate and watch football for basically social and health & wellbeing reasons?". It's an important question because that is still NZF's main fucking job and those people are NZF's biggest and most important group of stakeholders.

Although it may not always seem like it it's those 100k+ people who actually "own" the game and elect representatives to the District Federation and NZF Boards to make decisions on their behalf. Which in turn makes this idea that the NZF Board needs to be "more professional" an interesting one. Yes, of course you want the most qualified and capable people on the Board but the game in NZ is still largely an amateur one and needs to be governed by people who understand that and place importance on it. Articulating the problem as Gareth did ("I can't stand amateur committees and I would describe NZF as amateur in the extreme") shows a real lack of understanding of NZF's core purpose.

The issue is how you best balance the demands of the amateur/grass-roots and professional/high-performance parts of the game, which is something that pretty much all national sporting organisations struggle with. But coming at the problem from purely one of those directions, or on the assumption that one is inherently more important than the other, simply won't work.

Edited by terminator_x January 28, 2014 15:33

terminator_x
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So anyway, a timely and easy place to start would seem to be to get a member of Welnix onto the NZF Board (setting aside for the moment any grander plans of Gareth's to do a Lowy). Being one Board member out of seven would seem to be about the right level of representation to me, in the grand scheme of things.

How to achieve this?

a) a Welnix member gets nominated for FvH's elected seat at the May congress. Federation reps would then vote on their preferred nominee. As far as I know anyone can be nominated, and can do the nominating (although one or both may need to be an NZF member, which is easily achieved - join a club). A potential downside of this could be that it is viewed by "the grass-roots" as a waste of one of their precious 3 elected seats on the Board.

b) a Welnix member applies for the next appointed Board seat that comes up. There's not going to be many more qualified applicants right?

c) a Welnix member can be co-opted at any point in time by the Board (although they would not then have any voting rights on the Board).

Thoughts?

Edited by terminator_x January 28, 2014 13:50

Napier Phoenix
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My personal view is that the national and regional bodies should do very little for the "100k+ NZF members who play, coach, ref, administrate and watch football for basically social and health & wellbeing reasons" except provide them an avenue to play/participate in. Their focus should be on youth development [including coaches] and elite football - such as the academies, regional and national leagues, age group national teams etc. Once a person leaves that 'elite' stream, they don't receive too great a level of funding/support. Might sound a bit radical but you don't need a massive organisational machine to organise a group of people having a kick around for fun. You need to use the money and people resources to support the people that are serious about the game and to provide a well developed product to attract players, coaches, administrators and fans. [Awaits massive amounts of vitriol]

Jeff Vader
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Interesting viewpoint 

Edited by Jeff Vader January 28, 2014 18:31

Grumpy old bastard alert

james dean
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terminator_x wrote:

So anyway, a timely and easy place to start would seem to be to get a member of Welnix onto the NZF Board (setting aside for the moment any grander plans of Gareth's to do a Lowy). Being one Board member out of seven would seem to be about the right level of representation to me, in the grand scheme of things.

How to achieve this?

a) a Welnix member gets nominated for FvH's elected seat at the May congress. Federation reps would then vote on their preferred nominee. As far as I know anyone can be nominated, and can do the nominating (although one or both may need to be an NZF member, which is easily achieved - join a club). A potential downside of this could be that it is viewed by "the grass-roots" as a waste of one of their precious 3 elected seats on the Board.

b) a Welnix member applies for the next appointed Board seat that comes up. There's not going to be many more qualified applicants right?

c) a Welnix member can be co-opted at any point in time by the Board (although they would not then have any voting rights on the Board).

Thoughts?


The appointment process for NZF board members is a very boring topic for discussion

Edited by james dean January 28, 2014 22:37

Normo's coming home

james dean
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Smithy wrote:
james dean wrote:

Assuming that Gareth's main beef is the lack of connection between the Phoenix and NZF, it's an interesting question to what extent football in NZ would be better served by closer alignment between the two organisations - I'm genuinely quite torn.

 


From my discussion with him, that's an incorrect assumption. He just thinks the whole place is f*cked at the minute and that it needs a tune up. It's that simple.


Ok but I'm not sure how he is placed better than anyone else involved in football to diagnose the problems then (of which there are many, and of which there are many people who also share that view).  I don't really see why he has become the mouthpiece for reforming NZF - other than if he's prepared to write a big cheque.  Just being able to call up a reporter and get himself in the paper what role does he really have in the game?


He probably does have some good ideas, but so do a lot of people - you and me included - but I don't just go out demanding a meeting with NZF and telling them how they should reform themselves.  Who does Gareth actually represent here?  Owners of professional clubs in NZ?  Phoenix fans?  Loudmouths everywhere?

Edited by james dean January 28, 2014 22:39

Normo's coming home

reg22
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james dean wrote:
Smithy wrote:
james dean wrote:

Assuming that Gareth's main beef is the lack of connection between the Phoenix and NZF, it's an interesting question to what extent football in NZ would be better served by closer alignment between the two organisations - I'm genuinely quite torn.

 


From my discussion with him, that's an incorrect assumption. He just thinks the whole place is f*cked at the minute and that it needs a tune up. It's that simple.


Ok but I'm not sure how he is placed better than anyone else involved in football to diagnose the problems then (of which there are many, and of which there are many people who also share that view).  I don't really see why he has become the mouthpiece for reforming NZF - other than if he's prepared to write a big cheque.  Just being able to call up a reporter and get himself in the paper what role does he really have in the game?


He probably does have some good ideas, but so do a lot of people - you and me included - but I don't just go out demanding a meeting with NZF and telling them how they should reform themselves.  Who does Gareth actually represent here?  Owners of professional clubs in NZ?  Phoenix fans?  Loudmouths everywhere?



he may feel that he is in a position to make a difference, whereas the average joe is not
terminator_x
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james dean wrote:

The appointment process for NZF board members is a very boring topic for discussion


...says the man who starts a thread called Effecting Change at NZF

FU BLU
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But necessary , if you dont believe in Santa Claus

Smithy
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james dean wrote:
Smithy wrote:
james dean wrote:

Assuming that Gareth's main beef is the lack of connection between the Phoenix and NZF, it's an interesting question to what extent football in NZ would be better served by closer alignment between the two organisations - I'm genuinely quite torn.

 


From my discussion with him, that's an incorrect assumption. He just thinks the whole place is f*cked at the minute and that it needs a tune up. It's that simple.


Ok but I'm not sure how he is placed better than anyone else involved in football to diagnose the problems then (of which there are many, and of which there are many people who also share that view).  I don't really see why he has become the mouthpiece for reforming NZF - other than if he's prepared to write a big cheque.  Just being able to call up a reporter and get himself in the paper what role does he really have in the game?


He probably does have some good ideas, but so do a lot of people - you and me included - but I don't just go out demanding a meeting with NZF and telling them how they should reform themselves.  Who does Gareth actually represent here?  Owners of professional clubs in NZ?  Phoenix fans?  Loudmouths everywhere?

 

Since when did having a mandate equate to the ability to be heard? Who does Kim Dotcom represent? Who does Lorde represent?

Gareth has an audience, and he's using it to call for reform of NZF. He's also using it to call for reform of cats. 

So that's one question.

As for what role he has in the game, he's probably one of the three biggest personal financial contributors to football in New Zealand. Sure that's his choice, but it certainly gives him skin in the game.

You and I might have some good ideas (not sure about me) but we don't have direct dealings with NZF on a day to day basis. The Phoenix do, so requiring a meeting with them isn't too outrageous either.

Overall what I'm driving at is this: if anyone is going to call for reform of the game's national governance, Gareth is probably one of the best placed to be the guy calling.

I actually respect him for not bandying about his vision or his solutions. I think he knows he doesn't know enough to give solutions. All he's saying is "let's do better." I agree with him.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

terminator_x
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So simplifying my earlier question: do we think that having a member of Welnix (Gareth or somebody else) on the NZF Board is a good idea or not?


james dean
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terminator_x wrote:

So simplifying my earlier question: do we think that having a member of Welnix (Gareth or somebody else) on the NZF Board is a good idea or not?



Much more interesting question!

Smithy, I agree with what you're saying to a certain extent.  I don't think Gareth's message is particularly original but maybe it takes someone with a degree of distance to say it and for people to listen.  I do think at some point we need to hear his solutions in order to know whether to take him seriously as a reformer of the game.

I'd probably say that yes, with the board and the game in its current state (pretty listless at an elite level) having someone with the drive of Morrison or Morgan is probably a good idea.  More generally, I'm not sure that a professional club should have a huge degree of influence over the running of what is still an amateur game.  Clearly in our country there should be more cooperation between the two but not sure you need to have someone on the board to do that.

I'm also not 100% that Welnix's grand plan for the Phoenix is ultimately going to be successful and I'm a little cautious about anointing them as the saviours of the sport just yet.  They have made some positive decisions but at the same time they have certainly made what I think are quite a few negative ones as well.  There's still a long way to go on achieving a well run, financially stable club that's ALSO successful on the pitch - I don't think they've squared that particular circle just yet.  

Normo's coming home

reg22
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terminator_x wrote:
james dean wrote:

The appointment process for NZF board members is a very boring topic for discussion


...says the man who starts a thread called Effecting Change at NZF




that is pure gold!
reg22
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terminator_x wrote:

So simplifying my earlier question: do we think that having a member of Welnix (Gareth or somebody else) on the NZF Board is a good idea or not?




if we had a league full of pro clubs, then i'd say no and that the league should have representation.  but since we only have the one, then i think this is absolutely necessary.
james dean
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reg22 wrote:
terminator_x wrote:
james dean wrote:

The appointment process for NZF board members is a very boring topic for discussion


...says the man who starts a thread called Effecting Change at NZF




that is pure gold!

I'm not a details man...

Normo's coming home

Smithy
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For post wewant7
james dean wrote:
reg22 wrote:
terminator_x wrote:
james dean wrote:

The appointment process for NZF board members is a very boring topic for discussion


...says the man who starts a thread called Effecting Change at NZF




that is pure gold!


I'm not a details man...

 

List of things you want to hear from your lawyer:

1. I'm not a details man.

;)

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

scribbler
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reg22 wrote:
terminator_x wrote:

So simplifying my earlier question: do we think that having a member of Welnix (Gareth or somebody else) on the NZF Board is a good idea or not?




if we had a league full of pro clubs, then i'd say no and that the league should have representation.  but since we only have the one, then i think this is absolutely necessary.


So do I.

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