All Whites v Lithuania | Mon 18th November | 2.55am | SS7

Boro4eva
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The least said about that game the better.

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

Ranix
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el grapadura wrote:

theprof wrote:

Sanday wrote:

OK so who wasn't included in this squad who should have been or are these the best players available?

Kosta for one, Maybe Moss, Stensness? Waine?

Kosta asked not to be selected this time around, and Moss is not the future. At least in goal we have a number of options, and Moss' time there is done. Waine probably should have gone ahead of someone like Mata, and arguably Stensness would have been a better choice than McGlinchey at least.

I'd like to see Musa given a run at DM. I thought his last game off the bench for AW was pretty good. Albeit a while ago now. And haven't seen him play much since then, but he seems to be doing pretty well in the USL.

keefy_NZ
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Global Game wrote:

Based on the two games, I’d say our strongest Xl right now would include Kosta over Just and Rojas over Mccowatt. 
Also, can Tuiloma still play RB?

Depth is of deep concern. 

hhmmm..not sure about Rojas over McCowatt. Space for both in a squad. Rojas didn't show too much to suggest he's the better option other than taking CKs. Def Kosta over Eli until he gets decent time playing at a good level
Marto
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reubee wrote:

I'd be worried if there were any commercial impacts of the lost to Lithuania.  Will this make it harder to get friendlies in the future with decent opposition.

I can see European FAs saying: "No sorry NZ, you lost to Lithuania, so you won't be of much use to us".

Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

Hard News
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Feverish wrote:

And a coach doesn’t pick his staff?

...I'm pretty sure that the current coach has picked his staff. 

Bullion
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Sanday wrote:

OK so who wasn't included in this squad who should have been or are these the best players available?

At LB there's Doyle and Wynne. Clayton Lewis. Fenton and Ingham at RB. Rogerson, TAHW? Kosta has bee mentioned.
reg22
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I think we have a good group of players. Some probably won't be back. Very concerned about the setup.

MetalLegNZ
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so far Hay has done what he said he would... that's a nice change!

COnst
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I got up at 3am and watched the whole match.  It was awful.  I've been tired and grumpy at work all day.

I can handle teams needing time to gel.  I can handle new internationals being under pressure.  I can handle difficult conditions in unfamiliar environments.  I struggle with men whose full time job it is to kick, pass and control a football repeatedly seeming to be incapable of kicking, passing and controlling a football.

It might be knackeredness clouding my brain, but I think Fiji would've done better against that Lithuania team today.  If we need to blood young guys like today's lineup, why don't we host Fiji or Tahiti in NZ rather than fly them to the other side of the world? European fixtures should be where we really do our best to hit our straps, not integrate teenagers.

Totally agree.  That was not a cheap trip.  NZ football have very limited funds and to waste them like this....  In most national teams competitors have to prove themselves first, not well, we will take you to the other side of the world, give you a start and see if you can lift your game by 300%.  This was a situation where very inexperienced, tame and underdeveloped players were given starting berths.  Outcome were predictable.  Hello....

For me it demonstrates the massive naivete of the coach, and in NZF for giving him the job.

COnst
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el grapadura wrote:

theprof wrote:

Sanday wrote:

OK so who wasn't included in this squad who should have been or are these the best players available?

Kosta for one, Maybe Moss, Stensness? Waine?

Kosta asked not to be selected this time around, and Moss is not the future. At least in goal we have a number of options, and Moss' time there is done. Waine probably should have gone ahead of someone like Mata, and arguably Stensness would have been a better choice than McGlinchey at least.

McGlinchey seldom even comes off the bench at Mariners, where Stensness has started every game since signing, and is doing some good stuff, apparently including the highest number of successful tackles in the A-league as well as attacking.   'Not sure what Hay is thinking there.

Hopefully the ozzies don't grab Stensness back.

Uncle N
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new to this forum so a bit surprised at the majority of comments around this game....firstly this was an opportunity to see the squad play.  Not NZs top team and indeed the top team would be a combination of the players from both games.  

To drill into rhe result too much after 1 games, limited prep, new team etc in quite immature and starts a continuous cycle of negativity.  The get where Hay wants to be is going to be a journey....2 yrs perhaps 6 until 26 world cup.  

We should enjoy the journey,  focus on youth development and there is plentyand as we know, 2026 represents an opportunity at the world stage,. - I see this as the perfect time to change our style to match the young talent now available.

newzealandpower
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COnst wrote:

Totally agree.  That was not a cheap trip.  NZ football have very limited funds and to waste them like this....  In most national teams competitors have to prove themselves first, not well, we will take you to the other side of the world, give you a start and see if you can lift your game by 300%.  This was a situation where very inexperienced, tame and underdeveloped players were given starting berths.  Outcome were predictable.  Hello....

For me it demonstrates the massive naivete of the coach, and in NZF for giving him the job.

The problem is, we have to take expensive trips to gain any kind of meaningful game and grow as a team. We don't have the Nations League to compete in (like almost everyone else does) and our ability to get meaningful games in the Islands is limited.

I personally would like to see us target Southeast Asia and the middle East to play friendlies. Somewhere 'in the middle' where players can converge and where we can play teams that, whilst not powerhouses, could still give us a good run for our money.

Either that or join Asia and grow tenfold like Australia did.

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

Ryan
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coochiee wrote:

Ryan wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

coochiee wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

That is a terrible result, getting bossed and losing to a very poor Lithuanian team, second string or not.

It’s a poor result but not terrible. The starting midfield are currently 3 of the worst midfielders in the A League let alone international football. If this same starting 11 fronted up in Lisbon against Ronaldo and his mates, they’d easily concede 6 or more.

Don't see the point of that comparison? The point is we were playing one of the poorest European sides, minnows includee, with a team full of professional players, including the likes of Rojas, Smith, and Tuiloma, with Singh and Bell getting big minutes too. We barely threatened, and they could have got more. It's all good and well to say Wood, Reid, and Thomas were not there, but they may not be there for Oceania qualifying games either. Let's not pretend that this team was some sort of rabble that will never get on the park together ever again.

If you are talking comparison, are the Lithuanian players not professional players?

Of course they are, it's international football. But none of those players play at higher level than most of the guys we had on the park.

A lot of that team plays in Lithuania which if it's pro it's only just. It's not a high level, there was talk of setting up a combined Baltic league of professional clubs but I think that's died down.

Some trainspotting. Of the Lithuanian starting 11, the players are at clubs in the following leagues -

5 players spread over top flights in - Israel, Latvia, Poland, Russia and Serbia. Another in Bundesliga 2

Remaining 5 play in Lithuania with 4 at one club (Žalgiris).

A few of the overseas based players, have also previously played for Žalgiris

I haven't seen any Lithuanian domestic league games but I have seen plenty of the Latvian league which is supposedly the strongest league in the Baltics and the standard is pretty dire, I think although the players are professional the wages are probably semi pro level - we're talking state leagues or handy prem level.

Yeovil
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Since we played June last year, until the game against Ireland; Lithuania played 15 games, we played 0.

We need to play on a consistent basis before we can expect consistent results against sides that get plenty of good quality games. Balancing this with cost is almost impossible, although it wouldn't be unfair to say we have done this poorly over over the last 5+ years.

It also needs to be kept in mind that when we do play, we need to be careful about how much we ask of our established players, both in terms of travel and playing time as they need to keep their clubs happy. If we ask Chris Wood, to play 90 minutes in Dublin, followed by 90 minutes in Lithuania a few days later before he 

I've always thought playing as many games as affordable is vital, even if its Australian based players against South East Asian or Oceania sides. Although again the cost/benefit may not stack up.

Achieve by Unity

coochiee
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COnst wrote:

Totally agree.  That was not a cheap trip.  NZ football have very limited funds and to waste them like this....  In most national teams competitors have to prove themselves first, not well, we will take you to the other side of the world, give you a start and see if you can lift your game by 300%.  This was a situation where very inexperienced, tame and underdeveloped players were given starting berths.  Outcome were predictable.  Hello....

For me it demonstrates the massive naivete of the coach, and in NZF for giving him the job.

The problem is, we have to take expensive trips to gain any kind of meaningful game and grow as a team. We don't have the Nations League to compete in (like almost everyone else does) and our ability to get meaningful games in the Islands is limited.

I personally would like to see us target Southeast Asia and the middle East to play friendlies. Somewhere 'in the middle' where players can converge and where we can play teams that, whilst not powerhouses, could still give us a good run for our money.

Either that or join Asia and grow tenfold like Australia did.

With AFC Asian Cup qualifying, and AFC World Cup qualifying - there are very few free windows for AFC sides.

One of the reasons (not the only one) as to why we haven't played the Socceroos for nearly a decade (June 2011).

Though someone like Iran - could become available for friendlies in 2020. They are currently 3rd in their WC qualifying group and at risk of not making the next stage.

There may also be some CONCACAF teams available to play in March 2020 window??  Their Nations League qualifying wraps up in this Nov window, and their Nations League finals series is in June 2020.

With inter confederation playoffs in March 2022 is effectively a 66.67% chance will be a Latino side (CONCACAF or CONMEBOL) so why not grab the chance to play say likes of Costa Rica/Honduras/Panama in the USA for a couple of friendlies. Have done it in the past.

Helps that MLS is starting around then, so better chance that Tuiloma, Boxall, Smith & Wynne (if still at Rapids) - should be released by their MLS clubs for at least one AWs game if play nearby stateside. Plus a shorter trip for A League/Nix players than heading to Europe as the A League gets to the business end.

el grapadura
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Ryan wrote:

coochiee wrote:

Ryan wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

coochiee wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

That is a terrible result, getting bossed and losing to a very poor Lithuanian team, second string or not.

It’s a poor result but not terrible. The starting midfield are currently 3 of the worst midfielders in the A League let alone international football. If this same starting 11 fronted up in Lisbon against Ronaldo and his mates, they’d easily concede 6 or more.

Don't see the point of that comparison? The point is we were playing one of the poorest European sides, minnows includee, with a team full of professional players, including the likes of Rojas, Smith, and Tuiloma, with Singh and Bell getting big minutes too. We barely threatened, and they could have got more. It's all good and well to say Wood, Reid, and Thomas were not there, but they may not be there for Oceania qualifying games either. Let's not pretend that this team was some sort of rabble that will never get on the park together ever again.

If you are talking comparison, are the Lithuanian players not professional players?

Of course they are, it's international football. But none of those players play at higher level than most of the guys we had on the park.

A lot of that team plays in Lithuania which if it's pro it's only just. It's not a high level, there was talk of setting up a combined Baltic league of professional clubs but I think that's died down.

Some trainspotting. Of the Lithuanian starting 11, the players are at clubs in the following leagues -

5 players spread over top flights in - Israel, Latvia, Poland, Russia and Serbia. Another in Bundesliga 2

Remaining 5 play in Lithuania with 4 at one club (Žalgiris).

A few of the overseas based players, have also previously played for Žalgiris

I haven't seen any Lithuanian domestic league games but I have seen plenty of the Latvian league which is supposedly the strongest league in the Baltics and the standard is pretty dire, I think although the players are professional the wages are probably semi pro level - we're talking state leagues or handy prem level.

This is spot on.

coochiee
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AWs 24 man squad consisted of 6 players, who 6 months ago were playing in the Handy Prem.

Also Bell still an amateur, plus Collier from USL is not exactly a top level league.

FYI - Ireland drew 1-1 with Denmark, and so missed out on qualifying for the Euros.

Boro4eva
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Ah the glory days of amateurs playing returns.

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

COnst
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COnst wrote:

Totally agree.  That was not a cheap trip.  NZ football have very limited funds and to waste them like this....  In most national teams competitors have to prove themselves first, not well, we will take you to the other side of the world, give you a start and see if you can lift your game by 300%.  This was a situation where very inexperienced, tame and underdeveloped players were given starting berths.  Outcome were predictable.  Hello....

For me it demonstrates the massive naivete of the coach, and in NZF for giving him the job.

The problem is, we have to take expensive trips to gain any kind of meaningful game and grow as a team. We don't have the Nations League to compete in (like almost everyone else does) and our ability to get meaningful games in the Islands is limited.

I personally would like to see us target Southeast Asia and the middle East to play friendlies. Somewhere 'in the middle' where players can converge and where we can play teams that, whilst not powerhouses, could still give us a good run for our money.

Either that or join Asia and grow tenfold like Australia did.

Yes...I don't know how much money NZ Football has but I think it was a waste to take most of those players who started the Lithuania game.  If Hay wants to see how they go why not play a local team?  Most world cup winning sides (I don't see NZ ever doing this) have a very stable first 11, with some competition for places, but not to the degree that Hay is pretending is necessary. 

If I was in charge of the purse I'd be asking a lot more questions.

Re Asia:  perhaps NZ is ready in a footballing sense, with an excellent group coming through, but the resultant lack of World Cup and Olympic exposure would not help grow the general fan base.

coochiee
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