All Whites v Lithuania | Mon 18th November | 2.55am | SS7

Feverish
Legend
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reg22 wrote:

@coochiee, i suggest you watch the game and you will see what grap is on about

grap hasnt even mentioned the match

Founder

reg22
Starting XI
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martyyn wrote:

I haven't had the chance to watch this mornings game yet, but the sense of entitlement on these two game threads is jaw dropping.

It's going to take time to evaluate the players who have been around this space for a while, see who is up to it and who isn't.

It's going to take time to bring in the younger generation who are up to it but need greater exposure than they will get in NZ.

We don't deserve a successful All Whites team because too many people aren't willing to do what is required to get there.

Hay deserves to be criticised if they play again in March but haven't improved. DO ME A FAVOUR !

Rufer does not become Messi on the back of half a dozen training sessions.

i think you should match the match

braces
Trialist
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Marto wrote:

Feverish wrote:

how did we play? Anyone put their hand up?

Woud was terrible, keep throwing/kicking the ball to their players, Rojas bang average, Smith had a good header saved, Singh, Rufer, Ridenton all poor. Stand out for me at the game was Bell.

Bell has been the find of these two games. 

Just, Mata, Would, de Jong, Collier and McGarry are not yet good enough to wear the fern. Should have taken Ben Waine instead of Just or Mata.

I have to agree, too many players below standard. We saw a better quality at David Farrington over the weekend. It could have been 4 nil as they had so many opportunities.

Bell was the only exception. 

Singh is not worth the hype, against Ireland he was a passenger and today he played not much better.

Payne was a thug and lucky to have remained on the pitch

We could not even thow the ball in to our own team, forget about passing accurately.

ColeWorld
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Terrible. 

Defence was an absolute shambles. McGarry constantly got beaten and is not near the level required. Payne worked hard but thats about all he offered. 

Midfield first half was shocking. None of the three were good enough. Ridentons gone down hill the last couple years, Rufer was poor and very slow on the ball. McGlinchey is done.

Front three just as bad. Colliers not good enough for this level, neither is de Jong. Seriously not convinced at all by Collier, he shouldnt make the next squad. Even against Ireland he did everything possible to blow that golden chance he had; clear through on goal and take a touch away from no one? Also, not really sure what de Jong offers? He's slow and a passenger. Has an ok touch but I am not sold on him as a centre forward - especially as a lone striker. Think hes suited in a deeper role. Missed a golden chance too where the tiniest bit of composure would've got him a goal. Rojas worked hard but had no one to work off as Collier and de Jong were terrible.

Woud made some decent saves but his distribution was embarrassing.

Bell and Singh made a difference and looked to penetrate but had little success. However they were clearly a step up from that horrid midfield trio in the first half. 

Dont think the turf helped, but still that was an embarrassing performance. Barely created anything and we were second to everything. They were too quick and made us look very ordinary - they easily could (and should) have won that game 3 or 4 nil. This wasn't a close game, we were outplayed everywhere on the pitch. Hay has a lot of work to on.

Napier Phoenix
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There have been a number of A League players mentioned over the past 2 games plus a player from South Africa and a couple from the US, that have been identified by most to not be up to international standard. Some of them may grow into or back into being good enough but who do we replace them with. I'm presuming that the Handy is not a high enough level so how do we get some of these other young fellows in places like Italy, Scandinavia etc involved to see if they are good enough? 

COnst
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el grapadura wrote:

theprof wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Time to move on, Lithuania next up. They finished their EURO 2020 qualifying campaign with a 6-0 loss to Portugal this morning.

They finished last in Group B, with 7 losses and 1 draw from 8 games, and 5 goals scored and 25 conceded.

Anything but a win here will be a massive disappointment for me.

I think as long as we play like we did today and come away with at least a good draw we should be happy - logically a win is what we all want of course.

Honestly, if we don't back ourselves to beat the likes of Lithuania, especially with the players we have right now, we may as well pack up and go home.

"Might as well pack up and come home".  Oh.... they are actually doing that.  An excellent prediction.

COnst
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coochiee wrote:

Nelfoos wrote:

reg22 wrote:

Nelfoos wrote:

Hard News wrote:

Game 2. No Reid already confirmed.

No Wood or Thomas also confirmed

how bad are the injuries?

Not injured, returning to respective teams.

Hay spent some with Sean Dyche at Burnley last week. Was quoted as saying is important to have good relationships with the various club managers going forward. I imagine Reid, Wood and Thomas going back to their clubs is all part of that.

That extends to those who went, and those who did not.  McGlinchey is a case in point.

COnst
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JamesBo wrote:

Really like the team and feel that we have good players in every position and decent backups. However, right-back could be an issue as a lot of the ones we have are good at attacking but not as good at defending like Fenton and Roux so would like to see what Kirwan can offer.

It's the same problem at left back in my view.

Joey Johns
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ColeWorld wrote:

 Ridentons gone down hill the last couple years

tbf im not even sure he started at the top of the hill.

yung thug

COnst
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Hard News wrote:

Boro4eva wrote:

Club v country..don't agree with Talay's pressure during an approved window..better to direct at FFA

... They let Thomas, Reid and Wood go when they had a couple of hours travel from either venue because it was important to have a good relationship with clubs. Why should the Phoenix be treated differently? 

Umm.... because on a world basis, Phoenix is at best a 5th tier club.  

But it's a start...

COnst
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coochiee wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

coochiee wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

That is a terrible result, getting bossed and losing to a very poor Lithuanian team, second string or not.

It’s a poor result but not terrible. The starting midfield are currently 3 of the worst midfielders in the A League let alone international football. If this same starting 11 fronted up in Lisbon against Ronaldo and his mates, they’d easily concede 6 or more.

Don't see the point of that comparison? The point is we were playing one of the poorest European sides, minnows includee, with a team full of professional players, including the likes of Rojas, Smith, and Tuiloma, with Singh and Bell getting big minutes too. We barely threatened, and they could have got more. It's all good and well to say Wood, Reid, and Thomas were not there, but they may not be there for Oceania qualifying games either. Let's not pretend that this team was some sort of rabble that will never get on the park together ever again.

You yourself mentioned the 6-0 thrashing that Lithuania got the other day as a benchmark of their ability. I’m just saying that this AW ‘B’ is probably of a similar ability ie would be a poor Euro side. Esp when they are mostly strangers to each other at the moment.

They need to improve and hopefully they do, but honestly some will just drop off the radar. For example I think Lewis will come in once his fitness is up, and maybe Steneness (spp). Don’t see much of a future for Ridenton and Weemac.

Yes I think Lewis showed better quality against the ozzies than was shown, certainly by the B team.  As for Weemac v Stensness... just look at who is getting the time at Mariners.  It seems that one is down to "getting on with the clubs".

There is plenty of time for both to come in, though Bell has done quite well, conservative but reasonably reliable.

COnst
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coochiee wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

That is a terrible result, getting bossed and losing to a very poor Lithuanian team, second string or not.

It’s a poor result but not terrible. The starting midfield are currently 3 of the worst midfielders in the A League let alone international football. If this same starting 11 fronted up in Lisbon against Ronaldo and his mates, they’d easily concede 6 or more.

Yes, certainly we were bossed in many ways on both days.  Playing little juniors, who have yet to develop the smarts, the character or the bodies is only going to result in disaster, when going against relatively seasoned professionals.

Baiter
WeeNix
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COnst wrote:

It's the same problem at left back in my view.

bahahahahaha... hahahaha... hahahah... no, stop, It hurts.


theprof
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I understand the unhappiness at two losses, but we have to put it into some perspective, we haven't played for almost two years - in that time we've had a new coach/manager with new ideas. Before the games we had a training camp for three days before travelling to Ireland, the to Lithuania. How you can expect a team that's trained maybe three times to play more cohesively is ridiculous, yes they are professionals but being paid to play doesn't mean you don't need time to understand how your team is going to work. We get beaten by a very good Irish team (with our best players) they fly home and our fringe players get a chance to prove themselves - which they do not. I'm not letting them off the hook here, I wouldn't expect to see some of the older guys in game two in a white shirt again. But expecting them to win against a team that regardless of results has been playing together for a couple of years seems deluded.

Queenslander 3x a year.

20 Legend
First Team Squad
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A team that hasn't played together in years, without their best players, featuring players who get bossed in the A-league (if they even start), playing away from home on a shark pitch?

I'm not surprised we lost 1-0

Khalil Media
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I got up at 3am and watched the whole match.  It was awful.  I've been tired and grumpy at work all day.

I can handle teams needing time to gel.  I can handle new internationals being under pressure.  I can handle difficult conditions in unfamiliar environments.  I struggle with men whose full time job it is to kick, pass and control a football repeatedly seeming to be incapable of kicking, passing and controlling a football.

It might be knackeredness clouding my brain, but I think Fiji would've done better against that Lithuania team today.  If we need to blood young guys like today's lineup, why don't we host Fiji or Tahiti in NZ rather than fly them to the other side of the world? European fixtures should be where we really do our best to hit our straps, not integrate teenagers.

Of course, if we'd won, I'd be lauding the awesome idea of taking teenagers to the other side of the world to gain invaluable experience...

coochiee
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Ryan wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

coochiee wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

That is a terrible result, getting bossed and losing to a very poor Lithuanian team, second string or not.

It’s a poor result but not terrible. The starting midfield are currently 3 of the worst midfielders in the A League let alone international football. If this same starting 11 fronted up in Lisbon against Ronaldo and his mates, they’d easily concede 6 or more.

Don't see the point of that comparison? The point is we were playing one of the poorest European sides, minnows includee, with a team full of professional players, including the likes of Rojas, Smith, and Tuiloma, with Singh and Bell getting big minutes too. We barely threatened, and they could have got more. It's all good and well to say Wood, Reid, and Thomas were not there, but they may not be there for Oceania qualifying games either. Let's not pretend that this team was some sort of rabble that will never get on the park together ever again.

If you are talking comparison, are the Lithuanian players not professional players?

Of course they are, it's international football. But none of those players play at higher level than most of the guys we had on the park.

A lot of that team plays in Lithuania which if it's pro it's only just. It's not a high level, there was talk of setting up a combined Baltic league of professional clubs but I think that's died down.

Some trainspotting. Of the Lithuanian starting 11, the players are at clubs in the following leagues -

5 players spread over top flights in - Israel, Latvia, Poland, Russia and Serbia. Another in Bundesliga 2

Remaining 5 play in Lithuania with 4 at one club (Žalgiris).

A few of the overseas based players, have also previously played for Žalgiris

coochiee
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Disappointing night but fair play to Danny Hay for going through this exercise of giving game time to a whole swathe of players in matches we fans have been able to consume on TV. It's been a sound reality check after 18 months of punters and pundits suggesting "this player" or "that player" would be a good addition to the All Whites squad...

If we had played an Island nation we might have scraped a win - but that would only have masked a multitude of faults.

Most of the newcomers made little impression on me (yes even with Bell I still have this dread he may turn out to be the new Jeremy Christie). Payne gives away way too many free kicks when he doesn't have to. Liked Bill Tuiloma though. 

braces
Trialist
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extract from above

"We're going to have to make sure now that there are standards put in place about how we turn up to environments. At times the lack of fitness was evident from us – the lack of match sharpness, with some of our players not having played for a long time.

Why would you select players who have not played or were unfit? Nepotism 

Same goes for the backroom staff, all Hay's boys who have never done the job before.

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