Seems to be a position we produce reasonably strong players in and playing most of my football in that position one that I always follow.
Who in your view is the best ever? I guess leading contenders are Winston Reid and Ryan Nelsen, Ivan Vicelich obviously in the mix...
Nelsen, no question.
Nelson was Captain fantastic but I reckon Reid is the most skillful out of the two they're both quite different but I'd hand it over to Nelson. Vicelich to me is a better DM. I'm more concerned about the future of our Central Defenders, at the moment its Reid, Daylight*5, Smith, Daylight, Daylight, Boxall, Dura, Themi, Daylight, Doyle, Daylight*1000. Thats alot of daylight between the current and next gen.
Nelson. Maybe not as good as a player, but a better leader.
It's definitely between Nelsen and Reid ability and performance wise.
I find it hard to say who is better. Both have been just as important to their AW's sides.
Nelsen gets the edge for me because he's been tested in the World Cup Finals and for his immense leadership abilities on and off the field.
Tommy Smith has had a solid career at Ipswich but is somewhat behind the above two AW's legends.
From years past, most pundits I think would rate Ceri Evans and Malcolm Dunford as two of our best.
Ceri Evans received 56 A international caps and played 116 matches for Oxford United in the second tier of English football in the late '80's and early 90's. His pro career would have been longer and he was probably good enough to have cracked the top league but he always had to balance pro football with a second career as Oxford University scholar (Rhodes scholar and later one of Britain's top academic psychiatrists). Was only 17 when he gained his first AW's cap.
Malcolm Dunford was the other top NZ centre back of the mid-1980's to early 1990's. He never played overseas but was good enough to.
After that you're looking at Danny Hay who was part of a Leeds United squad playing Champions League.
And Ricki Herbert - from the 1982 All Whites and the first NZ centre-back to play professionally overseas, at Wolves for two seasons in the mid-80's under Tommy Docherty.
It's definitely between Nelsen and Reid ability and performance wise.
I find it hard to say who is better. Both have been just as important to their AW's sides.
Nelsen gets the edge for me because he's been tested in the World Cup Finals and for his immense leadership abilities on and off the field.
Tommy Smith has had a solid career at Ipswich but is somewhat behind the above two AW's legends.
From years past, most pundits I think would rate Ceri Evans and Malcolm Dunford as two of our best.
Ceri Evans received 56 A international caps and played 116 matches for Oxford United in the second tier of English football in the late '80's and early 90's. His pro career would have been longer and he was probably good enough to have cracked the top league but he always had to balance pro football with a second career as Oxford University scholar (Rhodes scholar and later one of Britain's top academic psychiatrists). Was only 17 when he gained his first AW's cap.
Malcolm Dunford was the other top NZ centre back of the mid-1980's to early 1990's. He never played overseas but was good enough to.
After that you're looking at Danny Hay who was part of a Leeds United squad playing Champions League.
And Ricki Herbert - from the 1982 All Whites and the first NZ centre-back to play professionally overseas, at Wolves for two seasons in the mid-80's under Tommy Docherty.
its close but Malcolm Dumford > Ceri Evans
A great debate. At this point Nelsen would get my vote but more performances like Saturday and Reid will make it even closer. Hay had a bad time with injuries and from my memory of the 80s I'd vote Evans slightly above Dunford. As well as #sackRicki from the 82 side you have to consider Bobby Almond.
And Rodger Gray is another one who could easily have played at a much higher level. Here's hoping the likes of Brotherton, Mitchell, Cory Brown and Liam Wood kick on - hopefully there's others out there to continue our fine tradition in this area
For now it's Nelsen. In 5 or so years maybe it will be Reid. Also, not as skillful as those two, but a Mr Sigmund did an OK job whenever called upon I'd say...
If Reid leads us to this world cup it will be him, but remains Nelsen for now, imo
Honourable mention: Bobby Almond. Class player.
Is he the greatest because he led us to the World Cup?
I'm more concerned about the future of our Central Defenders, at the moment its Reid, Daylight*5, Smith, Daylight, Daylight, Boxall, Dura, Themi, Daylight, Doyle, Daylight*1000. Thats alot of daylight between the current and next gen.
I've always had this feeling Nelsen "coached" our backline to a world cup.
Nelsen. Not only for the AWs, but totally essential for which ever EPL team he was playing for too.
Reid has off days, but is mostly consistent and is genuinely frustrated when West Ham concede.
I remember watching Nelsen, and very rarely would he flare up after conceding but he would march to his backline and address the issue that unfolded. I vividly remember watching some Nelsen heroics for under the pump blackburn more than a few times.
Perhaps Nelsen's consistent captaincy of Blackburn edge him in my mind as someone more widely recognised for his contributions both on and off the field. Not to forget being named in ESPN's World Cup XI for his efforts in South Africa.
Mine...
Nelsen, Reid, Dunford, Almond, Evans, Herbert
I think best ever All Whites central defender is a very different question to best ever kiwi central defender. Best ever CB for the All Whites is Nelsen, best ever New Zealander CB will be Reid.
I think best ever All Whites central defender is a very different question to best ever kiwi central defender. Best ever CB for the All Whites is Nelsen, best ever New Zealander CB will be Reid.
I think best ever All Whites central defender is a very different question to best ever kiwi central defender. Best ever CB for the All Whites is Nelsen, best ever New Zealander CB will be Reid.
What have you been on tonight.
Durante by a Country mile. Absolute colossus of a player.
Durante by a Country mile. Absolute colossus of a player.
LOL LOL LOL
Ok yeah sorry lads, realised that made no sense at all. I'll elaborate, I think in terms of playing for the All Whites Nelsen is our best ever CB, but i think that the best New Zealander to play CB ever is Reid. Nelsen was immense for the All Whites, and while Reid has still been incredible for the national team i don't think he can surpass Nelsen. In terms of Kiwi CB's in general (not just playing for the NT, but clubs) I think Reid has it. New Zealand has never had a defender with the technical and athletic ability that Reid does, not even Nelsen, however Nelsen still (i think) was better for the national team. Hopefully that clears that up and I don't sound quite so mental
I wouldn't consider Reid to be technically better than Nelsen; on a par IMO. Not really the strongest facet of their game...
Some people have mentioned Ricki, I'd actually put Sigmund ahead of him, similar skill levels but Sigmund played with more heart etc. Nelsen & Reid certainly top two... Was good when we had those two playing together!
I'd go for Nelsen, Dunford and Reid in that order. It was a crime that Malcolm Dunford never played at the tope level.
Honourable mention to someone who should have featured in this list, had it not been for reasons other than football. Marty Felton.
I'd go for Nelsen, Dunford and Reid in that order. It was a crime that Malcolm Dunford never played at the tope level.
Honourable mention to someone who should have featured in this list, had it not been for reasons other than football. Marty Felton.
i saw him play for mt wellington once i think. had never heard of him and couldn't believe how good he was. i assumed he was some unknown import
what happened to him?
Some people have mentioned Ricki, I'd actually put Sigmund ahead of him, similar skill levels but Sigmund played with more heart etc. Nelsen & Reid certainly top two... Was good when we had those two playing together!
herbert could read the game really well and was good with his feet as well as being brilliant in the air. sigmund had lots of good attributes, but i much preferred ricki
Some people have mentioned Ricki, I'd actually put Sigmund ahead of him, similar skill levels but Sigmund played with more heart etc. Nelsen & Reid certainly top two... Was good when we had those two playing together!
Much as I'm a big fan of Siggy I think that's maybe a bit unfair on Ricki. He showed plenty of heart in the AWs '82 WC qualifiers and scored two hugely important headed goals at the business end of the campaign. Was only 20-odd as I recall too. Amazing maturity for a young amateur footballer.
Its got to be Ricki Herbert for me
I remember when Ricki signed for Wolves in late 1984: NZ's first ever pro footballer in England. As a kid back then he was quite inspirational
Its got to be Ricki Herbert for me
I remember when Ricki signed for Wolves in late 1984: NZ's first ever pro footballer in England. As a kid back then he was quite inspirational
Peter Whiting was the first NZ pro footballer in England.He played for Charlton Athletic in 1967. He also played for Miramar Rangers for years.He was an excellent goalkeeper.
Brian Turner with about 100 appearance for Brentford also pre-dates Ricki.
Marty Felton quit football a bit disillusioned to become a policeman.
Its got to be Ricki Herbert for me
I remember when Ricki signed for Wolves in late 1984: NZ's first ever pro footballer in England. As a kid back then he was quite inspirational
Peter Whiting was the first NZ pro footballer in England.He played for Charlton Athletic in 1967. He also played for Miramar Rangers for years.He was an excellent goalkeeper.
First I have ever heard about that and I guess not many knew back in the 80's either because I am just regurgitating what was in the news when Ricki signed for wolves
Marty Felton quit football a bit disillusioned to become a policeman.
I'll probably be banned for this, but I don't rate Reid at all.
Yes, he's big, strong and fast. But he can't pass a ball more than 10 yards, he's regularly caught out of position requiring a last ditch tackle (which for some reason is considered to show 'heart' or 'commitment') and panics too often with the ball at his feet.
There I said it.
I'll go back to lurking now.
I'll probably be banned for this, but I don't rate Reid at all.
Yes, he's big, strong and fast. But he can't pass a ball more than 10 yards, he's regularly caught out of position requiring a last ditch tackle (which for some reason is considered to show 'heart' or 'commitment') and panics too often with the ball at his feet.
There I said it.
I'll go back to lurking now.
Sounds a bit like Smalling. :)
