Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

I think Rory is just there for the off field culture, self belief, team building, team mascot stuff. 

Pretty much same reasons as why Hudson had him in as a player in 2017.

And to be fair Falloon seems to enjoy it. I went through BA airport enroute to Lima, Nov 2017. AWs were in the nearby transit lounge waiting for that dud charter flight, and Rory headed up a table of the younger brigade playing cards. They were in good spirits after the 0-0 in Welly.

At least that’s what I hope his role is.

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

#rorythemascot


Still think DB might be there to put out the cones. If he’s not it won’t be Declan as he doesn’t use cones (well not that sort anyway). 

Marquee
5.3K
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9.5K
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over 12 years

I think chaplain might be the most appropriate word to describe Rory's role

Cock
2.7K
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16K
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over 14 years

Jobs for his boys

Marquee
2.7K
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7.2K
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almost 17 years

I don't have an issue with Roy being in the mix. As long as Hay has competent, well trained assistants to support him on a technical level, it doesn't matter if he adds one or two other characters to help create a good culture within the squad.

And my understanding is that Roy is mainly there for this reason.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

I don't have an issue with Roy being in the mix. As long as Hay has competent, well trained assistants to support him on a technical level, it doesn't matter if he adds one or two other characters to help create a good culture within the squad.

And my understanding is that Roy is mainly there for this reason.

Exactly this. If Rory is there mainly for an off field presence all good.

We may have a very talented group of group players, but it's still a huge jump from U20 football, to the international senior men's game. Likes of McCowatt (2 games as a pro footballer), Bell (US college football) and Just (bench player in Danish 3rd tier) - if get on the field against Ireland would be up against a complete team of hard nosed, physical, vastly experienced players from the top 1-3 tiers of English football. Big big jump up in class, with no prisoners.

If Falloon is there to give them some guidance, a little shoulder hug all good.

However yes will be very disappointing if Des is not involved as an assistant in some capacity.

WeeNix
760
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750
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over 9 years

Im going to take some convincing, dont understand the idea the young players might need a cuddle/shoulder hug. The ones who have been with Des for example will have been exposed to top quality player management and have also spent their international careers at age group level being involved in international level setups.

These arent fragile snowflakes, they have had to fight and compete to get to where they are, either at club, school, rep and international level. 

Trying to think of any other international teams who have among their playing staff someone who is there as a shoulder to lean on or a team culture cheerleader. Cant think of any. 

Sorry seems a very strange appointment to me and the reason people are putting forward seems really weak to me within the context of who the players are, the NZ psyche and what happens in world football. 

What is needed is world class coaching sessions that fit the difficult time constraints of international football, that will have a far far bigger impact on players than a mentor etc. Players all want challenging, quality, relevant sessions more than anything else.

Not convinced by the arguments at all.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

Ange Postecoglou had Craig Moore in with the Socceroos, during his reign. Don't think Moore had a lot of coaching experience. 

Part of Falloon's job description may also be monitoring European based players.

The Socceroos always have someone in their coaching staff based up north. Though usually it's an experienced technical type coach. Currently highly experienced Dutch coach René Meulensteen. 

NZF's budget probably doesn't stretch that far, plus there is a lot less Kiwis players up there to monitor. So why not bring in someone part time, esp when ice cream sales drop off over the winter.

Hudson had Peter Taylor doing a similar role?

First Team Squad
320
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1.4K
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over 16 years

I assume there won't be much time to get this AW team up and running - there never is - so if Rory can help get the players' heads in the right space, and help them all bond as a unit, I'm more than happy. 

WeeNix
760
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750
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over 9 years

coochiee wrote:

Ange Postecoglou had Craig Moore in with the Socceroos, during his reign. Don't think Moore had a lot of coaching experience. 

Part of Falloon's job description may also be monitoring European based players.

The Socceroos always have someone in their coaching staff based up north. Though usually it's an experienced technical type coach. Currently highly experienced Dutch coach René Meulensteen. 

NZF's budget probably doesn't stretch that far, plus there is a lot less Kiwis players up there to monitor. So why not bring in someone part time, esp when ice cream sales drop off over the winter.

Hudson had Peter Taylor doing a similar role?

The monitoring Euro players makes sense. Cheers

Marquee
5.3K
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9.5K
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over 12 years

Also, with a national side, especially one that plays as infrequently as the AWs, you have to think about what realistically can be achieved by a coach in the time they have with the squad. There is the understanding and implementation of tactics and there is motivation and team spirit. Technical skills etc simply aren't going to improve in any meaningful way in that time. Having someone there specifically to focus on team spirit etc makes sense to me as long as you're not wasting resources which could be used elsewhere. I'm assuming Rory is cheap and our odds of getting a quality tactical coach on our budget are probably pretty slim.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

It's who else Hay brings in that will be very interesting. So far it's a GK coach and chaplain/mood lifter.

I think everyone would be disappointed if Buckingham isn't included as an assistant.

Would suggest to either some insecurity from Hay, about a guy who has had some great success at international age group level. Or a rift between probably the two most high profile NZ coaches/NZF employees. Not great either way if is the case.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/116795238/neil-emblen-returns-to-the-all-whites-as-danny-hay-rounds-out-his-coaching-staff

Ummm

OlyWhites coach Des Buckingham won't be staying on as an All Whites assistant after missing out on the top job.

"We've sat down and discussed it," Hay said.

"We're both big boys and he understands how it is in football at the top level, that I need to surround myself with people that I know. It's not so much a trust thing, but having intimate knowledge of how they work.

"In time I'm sure I'll get there with Des, there's no doubt about that, but he's got a huge job on his hands with the under-23s and preparing them for the Tokyo Olympics, so he can now focus fully on that."

Hay said he and Buckingham would still have "a very close working relationship", given the number of players likely to be involved with both the All Whites and the OlyWhites over the next 12 months.

"He's taking the under-23s through to Tokyo, and there will be a lot of players that cross over between the two environments.

"I've gone through the squad [for November] with him and I want him to question and challenge some of the decisions I'm making around that, because ultimately I want to be giving some of those under-23 players opportunities."

Phoenix Academy
140
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330
·
almost 11 years

I know the AWs haven't kicked a ball in anger under Hay yet but I'm a little worried about where we are heading. Hay with Emblen, Fallon and Batty as assistants worries me, there's not a lot of experience there.

With the success of our youth teams recently and young guys doing well professionally, this is a critical couple of years for football in New Zealand and I hope we don't come to regret the Hay appointment.

Following the announcement of Fallon's involvement, it would not surprise me at all if we see a couple of real selection clangers too.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

Think Emblen & Batty have the coaching experience required. Emblen's knowledge of the MLS/USL, will be an added bonus given number of Kiwis playing Stateside.

Still disappointing not to see Buckingham in there.

Boyens needs to make sure that for the good of NZ Football, Hay & Buckingham work with each other over the next few years, and that Des especially feels some love - so isn't lost to NZ after the Olympics.

And well done to Mr Voerman for getting an explanation (hopefully truthful) from Hay, as to why for the moment Buckingham is not involved with AWs.

Starting XI
2.9K
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2.5K
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over 5 years

After more recent failures, people have been asking for more NZers to be involved in the set up. I see this as a brave appointment. No other way to see if its going to work than give it a go. 

But yes am disappointing Buckingham is not involved. He will be busy with U23 over the next 9 months. I hope NZF have a plan for him after that.

Starting XI
2.5K
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2.4K
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over 8 years

Hay showing, again, that he isn't the man for the job. Disappointing, yet expected.

The one man who has had recent success in NZ men's football being put on the outer is completely illogical. Des is still the only choice for the top job, lets hope he still wants it after these snubs.

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
·
about 17 years

I'm happy with Emblen and with Hay's explanations of of choices

But worried about the absence of Des

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
·
over 16 years

Ranix wrote:

After more recent failures, people have been asking for more NZers to be involved in the set up. I see this as a brave appointment. No other way to see if its going to work than give it a go. 

But yes am disappointing Buckingham is not involved. He will be busy with U23 over the next 9 months. I hope NZF have a plan for him after that.

It's brave and revolutionary. 

Phoenix Academy
130
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440
·
over 16 years

I just hope this is not a precursor to Des exiting? 

Starting XI
2K
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4.7K
·
almost 17 years

https://www.ticketmaster.ie/event/1800572B99A1215E...

Have just brought my ticket, going to fly to Riga the next day for the next match. Any other kiwis here planning on attending both matches?

Starting XI
2K
·
4.7K
·
almost 17 years

Jolly wrote:

I’m trying to buy tickets to the Ireland game, does anyone know where the Away supporters are sitting? It doesn’t have an away fans option.

https://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/republic-of-ireland-tickets/artist/1123642

I got in touch with NZF and they informed me that the away fans area is this one, not great seats mind and more expensive then other offerings:

https://www.ticketmaster.ie/event/1800572B99A1215E?did=away

Marquee
3.7K
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5.4K
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over 11 years

Would having Des there possibly undermine him as the coach (not intentionally).

Hey guys, I'm the new coach and here is my assistant, you know the guy you worked with, know, enjoy and respect and may have wanted to get my job. But yeah, despite this, I need you to see me as your coach.

Would there be many teams/set ups out there where the likely number 2 pick, ends up working alongside the guy who got the role a head of him?

S50
Trialist
18
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8
·
over 4 years

New to posting and I'll be honest I do think that DB should have got the job but I'm just keen on everyone's thoughts around Hay. I can't believe that NZF went for a coach who has essentially coached high school football for a decade and coached maybe 40 games at the highest amateur level in NZ. He has never coached at a professional level and is now tasked with leading arguably the most professional Aws ever? I understand that he won the isps last year but if that's the standard for selection, surely Jose has a better record? And if TW had won the game would we all be happy with him coaching the Aws? 

The way he has went about selecting his staff is also questionable. High performing teams shouldn't be filled with yes men but should actively challenge each other. He's brought in an ice cream salesman (has he coached at all)?), 2x old mates (1 of whom probably deserves the role more than he does). Watch out for when he brings in his other Eastern suburbs mates to usurp actual professional staff in the organisation. It absolutely baffles me and if all he's been picked on is "passion" I think NZF are screwed. 

I guess we can't expect much more when the acting technical director of almost 18 months? Has never coached at any level and does not have the experience required to make decisions with such wide ranging consequences. From the sounds of it Boyens and Pagnell are letting Hay do whatever he wants with no accountability or oversight... 

Marquee
3.7K
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5.4K
·
over 11 years

Who is S50??

Sorry, but whenever someone comes on this forum and for their very first post go an write a piece like you did, I take it with a massive grain of salt.

Phoenix Academy
140
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330
·
almost 11 years

MetalLegNZ wrote:

Who is S50??

Sorry, but whenever someone comes on this forum and for their very first post go an write a piece like you did, I take it with a massive grain of salt.

Why? Doesn't seem to me like he/she has done anything out of the ordinary?

Starting XI
2.5K
·
2.4K
·
over 8 years

Martial wrote:

MetalLegNZ wrote:

Who is S50??

Sorry, but whenever someone comes on this forum and for their very first post go an write a piece like you did, I take it with a massive grain of salt.

Why? Doesn't seem to me like he/she has done anything out of the ordinary?

If anything, they speak a shark ton of sense
S50
Trialist
18
·
8
·
over 4 years

I'll take that... Understand that it probably comes off pretty strong but I've read the forums for a long time and never felt the need to get involved but thought I'd put something out there to try and understand people's thoughts on something. As I said, I'm biased in that I thought DB was the best choice candidate but wanted to hear other people's opinions either agreeing or disagreeing.

I am concerned that NZF in its haste to move away from so called foreign coaches and create a kiwi feelgood story has gone back to a jobs for the boys type scenario. I think emblem deserves to be in and around it as he is actually working in the pro game, batty perhaps although I'm not sure what his background is in men's senior football? Hay probably deserved a shot as assistant but as I saw mentioned on the pod the other week... There is not one metric where he appears the best candidate for the role? And the Fallon appointment astounds me.. Yes he's a former AW but there has to be a better choice who can actually add more than just the culture thing. Good coaches can do that and coach.. For example

To then cap it off we have given the technical director role to a mid thirties former AW who again I believe has never coached at senior level. I know that Heraf wasn't the best fit but honestly that's the type of person I see in that role. A career coach who has worked in the pro game outside of NZ, has coached senior teams and actually has some experience in the game outside of just playing.

Guess I'm just trying to find out people's opinions on the whole thing... Happy, not happy and maybe discuss it.... You know like forums do... 

Legend
11K
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21K
·
almost 9 years

Not sure Myer Bevan is the ideal spokesmen to push the Buckingham barrow.

Marquee
3.7K
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5.4K
·
over 11 years

S50 wrote:

I'll take that... Understand that it probably comes off pretty strong but I've read the forums for a long time and never felt the need to get involved but thought I'd put something out there to try and understand people's thoughts on something. As I said, I'm biased in that I thought DB was the best choice candidate but wanted to hear other people's opinions either agreeing or disagreeing.

I am concerned that NZF in its haste to move away from so called foreign coaches and create a kiwi feelgood story has gone back to a jobs for the boys type scenario. I think emblem deserves to be in and around it as he is actually working in the pro game, batty perhaps although I'm not sure what his background is in men's senior football? Hay probably deserved a shot as assistant but as I saw mentioned on the pod the other week... There is not one metric where he appears the best candidate for the role? And the Fallon appointment astounds me.. Yes he's a former AW but there has to be a better choice who can actually add more than just the culture thing. Good coaches can do that and coach.. For example

To then cap it off we have given the technical director role to a mid thirties former AW who again I believe has never coached at senior level. I know that Heraf wasn't the best fit but honestly that's the type of person I see in that role. A career coach who has worked in the pro game outside of NZ, has coached senior teams and actually has some experience in the game outside of just playing.

Guess I'm just trying to find out people's opinions on the whole thing... Happy, not happy and maybe discuss it.... You know like forums do... 

Boyens did have a role in the states for a few years in youth development, certainly nothing long term. But of NZ's problem in the past is we have hired coaches from the past, not able to adapt and implement the style of football now preferred.

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
·
about 17 years

Anyone with Forest Hill Milford on their coaching CV deserves to be taken seriously

Marquee
5.3K
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9.5K
·
over 12 years

Hay's quote above about Des is basically an admission that it is a jobs for the boys scenario. Also notable that he says "at the top level" - maybe a stretch there...

Marquee
5.3K
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9.5K
·
over 12 years

S50 wrote:

I'll take that... Understand that it probably comes off pretty strong but I've read the forums for a long time and never felt the need to get involved but thought I'd put something out there to try and understand people's thoughts on something. As I said, I'm biased in that I thought DB was the best choice candidate but wanted to hear other people's opinions either agreeing or disagreeing.

I am concerned that NZF in its haste to move away from so called foreign coaches and create a kiwi feelgood story has gone back to a jobs for the boys type scenario. I think emblem deserves to be in and around it as he is actually working in the pro game, batty perhaps although I'm not sure what his background is in men's senior football? Hay probably deserved a shot as assistant but as I saw mentioned on the pod the other week... There is not one metric where he appears the best candidate for the role? And the Fallon appointment astounds me.. Yes he's a former AW but there has to be a better choice who can actually add more than just the culture thing. Good coaches can do that and coach.. For example

To then cap it off we have given the technical director role to a mid thirties former AW who again I believe has never coached at senior level. I know that Heraf wasn't the best fit but honestly that's the type of person I see in that role. A career coach who has worked in the pro game outside of NZ, has coached senior teams and actually has some experience in the game outside of just playing.

Guess I'm just trying to find out people's opinions on the whole thing... Happy, not happy and maybe discuss it.... You know like forums do... 

FWIW I agree.

This whole thing is a) unsurprising, and b) bound to end in tears. Then we'll lurch to another coaching/administration shambles and the whole cycle will start again.

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
·
over 13 years

The quality of play between a Des team and a Danny team is stark. 
I seem to recall Danny saying when he stepped away from a national youth team role that one reason was because he couldn’t get them to play his way in the short timeframes together, and needed to work year round with them (the ES summer/winter project where he imported Ole/Wests en masse. Whereas Des has gone the extra miles and produced results in short time frames with players in national youth set ups.  

DB has made some nice additions to his CV and now has a little over 9 months to the Olympics; after which he will move on to bigger and better things (unless Hay is hoofed long). 

WeeNix
390
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960
·
over 10 years

if we lose Des (which we will) it will be another outstanding fudge up by NZF. Des has a great style of play which suits our up and coming players. The Hay sides ive watched are less than impressive- however it may just be the caliber of player he has had at his disposal.

Starting XI
1.8K
·
4.1K
·
about 17 years

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/116763189/break-from-football-leaves-rory-fallon-recharged-and-ready-to-rejoin-the-all-whites

the plymouth argyle under 14s coach is our national team assistant coach

our director of football's last (and only?) club was forest hill milford

our national team head coach is a high school coach

* disclaimer: post may contain exaggerations and convenient omissions of truth

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
·
about 17 years

how the frik did this happen

serious question, did hay choose a pragnall family member for a team or something?

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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over 16 years

He's just being brave and revolutionary. 

Legend
11K
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21K
·
almost 9 years

"Fallon is close to several of the current playing group, five of whom – Jeremy Brockie, Michael McGlinchey, Winston Reid, Tommy Smith, and Chris Wood – were part of the 2010 World Cup campaign, but he is ready to make the transition to being a member of the staff."

Surely it's time to move on from Wee Mac.

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